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Toronto signed the wrong defenseman

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Old
07-06-2008, 10:17 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I don't think they got the wrong guy, i just think they are overhyping the guy they got.
I think you're right about that. I seriously doubt that both Fletcher and Wilson got confused and went after the wrong guy. Saying Finger was the Avs best defenceman was definitely a mistake on his part though. If his contract didn't already give Leafs fans unrealistic expectations for him to live up to, they've gotten even worse after that.


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Originally Posted by Weeonta View Post
I still want to see the incriminating photos of Fletcher that Finger brought to the negotiating table.
You want to see naked pictures of Cliff Fletcher?

Why?

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:14 AM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norman View Post
Hits:
Finger - 121
Sauer - 48

Blocked Shots:
Finger - 117
Sauer - 59

That tells you something about this comparison, doesn't it?

The only prominent category Sauer has an edge in is +/-, with his +17 beating Finger's +12. That's not a large difference.

For them both being defensive d-men, offensively Finger also holds the edge in goals, assists, and points.
Judging by this, Finger blows Sauer out of the water in every single important asset of the game

Goals: Finger
Assists: Finger
Points: Finger
Blocked shots: Finger (by a mile)
Hits: Finger (by a mile)
+/-: Sauer (Finger still +12)


Finger was brought is for his defense and potential to become even better. He has improved drastically in the last 2 seasons and should he continue, this deal is very good for both parties.

Finger is the type of player who will do whatever it takes to win... if that means blocking a shot with his face.. hes gonna do it.

Yes he got overpaid.. but so did every single player this offseason. I could list them all but i wont.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:18 AM
  #28
Armond White
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Originally Posted by Reverse Flying V View Post
Breaking news: People need another 1000000000 excuses to make fun of the Leafs, more nose rubbing regarding finger ensues.

I don't expect much out of Jeff Finger next year, but if he turns out to be an amazing defenceman you guys are really going to look like morons...quit while you're ahead.
I'll take that chance.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:18 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post


http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=16043

Daniel Tolensky did a statistical breakdown of Finger compared to Sauer.

It is really well done. Only in Toronto do they sign the wrong defenseman to a massively inflated contract.
Only in Hamilton do they repost a 4 day-old blog post.

Must be the fumes.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:20 AM
  #30
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Daniel Tolensky, whoever he is, must be happy as a pig in ****. People are actually taking him seriously.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:20 AM
  #31
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This thread is one of those things that you think is gonna be exciting, but turns out boring.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:30 AM
  #32
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Yeah the article is old, but people saying it's a bad article obviously didn't read it. Ron Wilson said that Finger was a shutdown defensemen who was out on the ice all the time against the other team's top players such as thornton or the sedin twins. This article's purpose was to prove that quote wrong, which it certainly did. Wilson said that quote quite emphatically too by saying, I'm not bsing you before saying it.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:34 AM
  #33
zeke
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October

Sauer: 18:28mpg (#4)
Finger: 16:15mpg (#7)


November

Sauer: 17:13mpg (#5)
Finger: 19:27mpg (#4)


December

Sauer: 00:00mpg (---)
Finger: 17:57mpg (#5)


January

Sauer: 00:00mpg (---)
Finger: 20:59mpg (#2)


February

Sauer: 19:41mpg (#6)
Finger: 22:29mpg (#2)


March

Sauer: 18:47mpg (#6)
Finger: 21:39mpg (#2)


I think the Leafs intentionally wanted to sign Colorado's #2 defenseman last year, not their #6 defenseman.



All this author did here is take an extremely small and selective sample size, which obviously severely distorted the truth of the matter.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:37 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Only in Toronto do they sign the wrong defenseman to a massively inflated contract.
You might want to consider the Blue Jackets before you hand out any awards.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:44 AM
  #35
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The Leafs may have signed the wrong defenseman in Finger, but Sauer certainly doesn't deserve a $3.5 million contract either. Finger, in my opinion as an Avs fan, was way more dependable than Sauer. Alot of people automatically gave the upper hand to Sauer because he has more experience, is bigger/stronger, etc... but I can honestly say by watching 82 games last year that I would rather have Finger on the ice. Sauer is so bad defensively sometimes, he just looks clueless. Me and my buddies always notice his "defensive spinarama"...basically, when he is playing a 2 on 1, he gets confused and instead of just taking one man, he tries to take them both out by spinning around aimlessly in a circle infront of the goaltender, rendering him useless and creating a 2 on 0 situation with a free screen. Nice.

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Old
07-06-2008, 11:55 AM
  #36
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Finger's Ice time numbers:

OCT: 16:15 (#7)
NOV: 19:27 (#4)
DEC: 17:57 (#5)
JAN: 20:59 (#2)
FEB: 22:29 (#2)
MAR: 21:39 (#2)
PLYF: 22:16 (#1)*


Finger was a #2 defenseman for the majority of the season, even though he wasn't even pencilled into the starting lineup to start the year.

a #2 defenseman on a playoff team who were top-5 in fewest shots allowed.

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Old
07-06-2008, 12:00 PM
  #37
ducky
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Just wanted to point out that Tolensky's article was done as a retort to comments made by Ron Wilson that Finger played the most minutes against all the top players.

Clearly he did not. Sauer lined up against Thornton, Iginla, etc. far more often.

Hence, the "Toronto signed the wrong guy" comments.

Was Tolensky serious? I highly doubt it. But Wilson's comments were inaccurate.

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Old
07-06-2008, 12:07 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
Only in Toronto do they sign the wrong defenseman to a massively inflated contract.
this definitely only happens in Toronto.

I wish people knew how to use words.

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Old
07-06-2008, 12:52 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ducky View Post
Just wanted to point out that Tolensky's article was done as a retort to comments made by Ron Wilson that Finger played the most minutes against all the top players.

Clearly he did not. Sauer lined up against Thornton, Iginla, etc. far more often.

Hence, the "Toronto signed the wrong guy" comments.

Was Tolensky serious? I highly doubt it. But Wilson's comments were inaccurate.
I'd say that's a fair assessment. Some people took the commentary a little too seriously or missed the point. It's not about who has more blocked shots per minute or more even-strength goals. And it's not about minutes per game because it's clear that Sauer was playing tougher minutes 5-on-5.

The Leafs went out of their way to say that Finger was Colorado's shut-down defender and clearly he wasn't. It would hard to judge Finger's work against Thornton based on such a small sample (2.9 and 3.3 min per in their final two meetings) and in all of the quotes I used Fletcher/Wilson were clearly emphasizing those performances as justification for the contract.

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Old
07-06-2008, 12:59 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerolanche View Post
The Leafs may have signed the wrong defenseman in Finger, but Sauer certainly doesn't deserve a $3.5 million contract either. Finger, in my opinion as an Avs fan, was way more dependable than Sauer. Alot of people automatically gave the upper hand to Sauer because he has more experience, is bigger/stronger, etc... but I can honestly say by watching 82 games last year that I would rather have Finger on the ice.
Agreed. I managed to watch a decent number of Colorado games last season and personally I'd rather have Finger at $3.5 million over the next four years than Sauer at $1.75 million over the same term (though neither is really a great deal).

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:01 PM
  #41
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Anybody know why Finger was a scratch in the playoffs?

This is the only thing that confuses me.... why was he counted on to play 20 minutes a game all year... put up a +12 and then get benched in the playoffs?

Just doesn't add up.....

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07-06-2008, 01:03 PM
  #42
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Finger is a decent 4/5 dman who really turned it on last year. I think he could be one of those players who puts it together late in his career and becomes a very valuable asset.

I predict that Fletcher has the last laugh on this signing. As much as this deal gets cricized, Toronto will get a good top four dman for a relative bargin in today's wack climate of the rising cap.

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:06 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Tolensky View Post
I'd say that's a fair assessment. Some people took the commentary a little too seriously or missed the point. It's not about who has more blocked shots per minute or more even-strength goals. And it's not about minutes per game because it's clear that Sauer was playing tougher minutes 5-on-5.

The Leafs went out of their way to say that Finger was Colorado's shut-down defender and clearly he wasn't. It would hard to judge Finger's work against Thornton based on such a small sample (2.9 and 3.3 min per in their final two meetings) and in all of the quotes I used Fletcher/Wilson were clearly emphasizing those performances as justification for the contract.
Didn't you question the Ribeiro deal with Dallas? Ribiero looks like a steal now compared to what some other players are getting on the open market.

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:11 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOCKEYGOON View Post
Anybody know why Finger was a scratch in the playoffs?

This is the only thing that confuses me.... why was he counted on to play 20 minutes a game all year... put up a +12 and then get benched in the playoffs?

Just doesn't add up.....
There was one play that people pointed to where he absolutely got schooled by [insert player here] and was made to look just completely stupid. That was basically taken as a microcosm of his entire play-off performance.

Otherwise, I couldn't give you any specific reasons for it, other than I guess he may have been overmatched against the other team's top lines?

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by grind your soul View Post
There was one play that people pointed to where he absolutely got schooled by [insert player here] and was made to look just completely stupid. That was basically taken as a microcosm of his entire play-off performance.
That was it.

Apparently he was burnt out. What do you expect when you double a guys icetime from 3rd pairing to the 1st pairing.

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:17 PM
  #46
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This thread was started by a well known Leaf hater. A point can be made without ridicule and baiting. In fact you'll actually get some respect from people, especially if you've got the guts to stick around discuss it.

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Old
07-06-2008, 01:21 PM
  #47
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Yes that was me. My main criticism was that he had consistently failed to produce in the spring and that the Stars were handing him $25 mil after 41 games without making him at least prove he could step up in the post season:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog.php?post_id=12419

I certainly gave him enough credit for the way he did play in the playoffs but I still think its quite possible that he goes back to being the 18-goal, 58-point player he was over the three prior season. As I wrote:

"Sometimes being in a contract year makes players do very abnormal things. Things that can’t/won’t be repeated after a massive contract is signed."

Just my opinion though..


Last edited by Daniel Tolensky: 07-06-2008 at 01:56 PM.
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Old
07-06-2008, 01:37 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aerolanche View Post
Me and my buddies always notice his "defensive spinarama"...basically, when he is playing a 2 on 1, he gets confused and instead of just taking one man, he tries to take them both out by spinning around aimlessly in a circle infront of the goaltender, rendering him useless and creating a 2 on 0 situation with a free screen. Nice.
I can't wait to see this.

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Old
07-06-2008, 02:35 PM
  #49
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As an Avs fan I'd rather have Finger than Sauer if having to choose between the two at the same price. Clearly, Finger doesn't deserve the contract he got, but to say hear the implication that Sauer is better is in my personal opinion dead wrong.

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Old
07-06-2008, 02:42 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Leeroy Jenkins View Post
Didn't you question the Ribeiro deal with Dallas? Ribiero looks like a steal now compared to what some other players are getting on the open market.
I only read writers who have never made a bad call...


I don't read often..

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