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Old
07-06-2008, 03:46 PM
  #51
n8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Dawes was the best player in camp and at times looked dominant. At no point did he return to that form and while we will never know if harmed him or helped him, I can definitively say that you don't cut the best player in camp EVER. Don't tell the kid he has a shot at making the team if he works hard, if after he kills himself in the off season and dominates in camp you intend to send him down anyway to protect the likes of Marcel Hossa. You guys have to be kidding me on this...
I blame Renney for not using the Dawes-Gomez-Shanahan line that was so dominant in preseason. That was where all his preseason magic was happening after all.

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07-06-2008, 04:19 PM
  #52
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Never been a huge fan of Tom, but looking back at the past three years, I think he's done an excellent job. If nothing else, we have a system in place, which is something we sorely lacked for the better part of a decade after our Cup. Tom makes questionable decisions (IMO) and sticks with struggling players too long (again, IMO), but all in all, it's hard to argue with results. People can say, "Oh, well it's all because of Henrik and Jagr" or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that there are tons of underachieving teams loaded with talent, and with Tom, we HAVEN'T been one of them... IMO

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07-06-2008, 04:22 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
More then half the league makes the playoffs. Congrats on raising an F avg to a C???!!!
And close to half the league misses the playoffs. The fact that the Rangers got the 2nd round means that they were better than at least 22 other teams last season.

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07-06-2008, 04:35 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
Never been a huge fan of Tom, but looking back at the past three years, I think he's done an excellent job. If nothing else, we have a system in place, which is something we sorely lacked for the better part of a decade after our Cup. Tom makes questionable decisions (IMO) and sticks with struggling players too long (again, IMO), but all in all, it's hard to argue with results. People can say, "Oh, well it's all because of Henrik and Jagr" or whatever, but the fact of the matter is that there are tons of underachieving teams loaded with talent, and with Tom, we HAVEN'T been one of them... IMO
good point i remember right before the lockout watching a ranger game bfore the trade deadline that season and havin a PP line of, Bure, Lindros, Jagr, Kovalev, and Leetch and laughed when we couldnt win

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07-06-2008, 05:05 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Dawes was the best player in camp and at times looked dominant. At no point did he return to that form and while we will never know if harmed him or helped him, I can definitively say that you don't cut the best player in camp EVER. Don't tell the kid he has a shot at making the team if he works hard, if after he kills himself in the off season and dominates in camp you intend to send him down anyway to protect the likes of Marcel Hossa. You guys have to be kidding me on this...
Oh come on. Are you really going to compare training camp to the Regular NHL season? I remember reading reports out of camp of Prucha scoring 2 to 3 goals per game in the intersquad scrimmages, then once the season started he crapped out.

To say that Dawes would have been as good as he was in preseason during the Regular season is nonsense. Renney sent him down to Hartford because his defensive game was atrocious. He learned and got a recall and stuck. The fact is that before he was called up full time he had only scored goals on a slumping Brodeur and on one deflection that could have easily been stopped if the goalie was in proper position. After he came back from Hartford he was a much better player both offensively and defensively. I doubt Dawes himself cares that he was sent back and forth at the beginning of the season considering that as time went on he did in fact EARN a spot on the NHL roster, a permanent spot at that. I think people are just picking at things to complain about.

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Old
07-06-2008, 06:03 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Do you remember Nylander being on the ice with under 2 min to go in game 5 vs Buff???!!! We ice the puck and now Nylander is stuck out there as the only Center. Of course, Jagr is right next to him as our second worst defensive player. HOW CAN YOU HAVE THOSE GUYS OUT THERE WITH 2 MIN LEFT???!!!! There will never be an excuse for having that line on the ice in that situation. It was a complete and total failure on Renney's part and he should have been fired on the spot for sleeping at the wheel during the most important game the Rangers played in a decade.



yea it was an icing, of course your going to have your best offenseive line on the ice for the last two minutes of the game, what do you expect to have betts out there or something, someone whose offensive game is close to nonexistant?, and yea it was an icing so RENNEY COULD NOT MAKE A LINE CHANGE!!!!!!!...stop trying to nitpick something that was unavoidable

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07-06-2008, 06:05 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post

As for Dawes, its an example of Renney's inability to recognize talent and chemistry. Dawes-Gomez-Shanny had it. Dawes and Gomez still have it but Renney will never leave them alone. Remember how well Avery played with Jagr? Avery gets hurt and we never went back to it. When we were having trouble scoring goals, it was an adjustment Renney had to make and he simply didn't. Renney doesn't believe in matchups or chemistry. Just keeping rolling out the Hollwig-Betts-Orr line and everything will be ok, huh Tom?

yea renney did use the hollweg-betts-orr line a little too much in plenty of games, but that dawes-gomez-shanny line never worked for a long period of time, and it was a slow line. shanny was dragging gomez down, with this new lineup we are giving gomez some speed on his wing whose going to benefit from it a lot, he needs a guy who can skate with him, not drag behind him.

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07-06-2008, 06:06 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
In regards to the PP, the only time in 3 freaking years we had a right shot play the left point and a left shot play the right point was when Karel Rackunek scored two goals in a game with Mara out there with him. WE NEVER TRIED IT AGAIN!!!!

Our points never have the ability to go D to D for a one timer and frankly its the reason our PP stinks. You cant shoot when you have no angle, the shot will get blocked. This is hockey 101, a course Tom Renney has clearly never taken. Matt Cullen is a stud on the point, did we use him? No... Chris Drury loves the one timer from the top of the left circle. He ever set up shop there? No...

As for Dawes, its an example of Renney's inability to recognize talent and chemistry. Dawes-Gomez-Shanny had it. Dawes and Gomez still have it but Renney will never leave them alone. Remember how well Avery played with Jagr? Avery gets hurt and we never went back to it. When we were having trouble scoring goals, it was an adjustment Renney had to make and he simply didn't. Renney doesn't believe in matchups or chemistry. Just keeping rolling out the Hollwig-Betts-Orr line and everything will be ok, huh Tom?
I think the team has deeper lines now and we will never see a crappy 4th line

Dawes is good with Gomez and add Naslund to that.........go with Drury, Zherdev and Prucha?(or a deal like O'Sullivan)

Then run out a US kid line with Dubinsky, Callahan, Fristche

the 4th will have skill with Betts, Sjostrom , Rissmiller/Voros..........Jamtin may surprise too.

I think Orr, Hollweg will be packaged with a Prucha for another young forward

That O'Sullivan deal makes sense

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07-06-2008, 06:20 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrenturcotte#8 View Post
Want more? Nigel Dawes was the best player in camp last season. I watched him in all the pre-season games. (yes, i travel on the road to watch the kids) He was cut because "we didn't have room". We of course had room for Marcel Hossa... I still don't think Nigel has all his confidence back from that. Maybe he will cut him again this year...
Yeah nice try, you travel but you failed to watch the season premiere that year?

Marcel Hossa was a healty scratch.

Nigel Dawes played.


Nigel started the year in the NHL but clearly played himself out of the league. He didn't contribute at all for like 10 games.

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07-06-2008, 06:24 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Dagoon44 View Post
That might be the best point i have heard in months on here. Dawes outplayed the entire team in camp and yet Hoss was handed a spot. Renny picks a dog and a favorite every camp. great point i love dawes hope he nets 23 this season
Nobody watched this team that year?

Dawes made the team, Hossa was sent to the press box.

Then Dawes played himself out of the team. He did nothing offensivly and was a liability offensivly.

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07-06-2008, 06:29 PM
  #61
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I just laugh at people who blame that loss to Buffalo on Nylander being out there to take the draw. Nylander WON the faceoff cleanly back to the corner. It was Girardi coughing the puck up to Zubrus that led to the goal.

As for "the best kid in camp should always make the team" as a concrete rule, two words: Juris Stals.

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07-06-2008, 06:31 PM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
I just laugh at people who blame that loss to Buffalo on Nylander being out there to take the draw. Nylander WON the faceoff cleanly back to the corner. It was Girardi coughing the puck up to Zubrus that led to the goal.

As for "the best kid in camp should always make the team" as a concrete rule, two words: Juris Stals.
lol i know there are just some tom renney haters out there what can you do

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07-06-2008, 06:41 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
lol i know there are just some tom renney haters out there what can you do
Eh, there are just a lot of malcontents in Ranger land. I understand where they're coming from, but still, it does get irritating when it seems that the players/coaches/GM can do no right.

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07-06-2008, 06:44 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by bmoak View Post
As for "the best kid in camp should always make the team" as a concrete rule, two words: Juris Stals.
Yeah but Dawes made the team, its just BS that he was the best player in camp and did not make the team over Hossa. Dawes played.

Anyone who state anything else can't be a real fan, they can't have watched the first 10 games that season.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/player...3041&year=2007

DATE OPP RESULT G A PTS +/- PIM SOG SPCT PPG PPA SHG SHA GWG GTG TOI PROD
10/05 WAS W 5-2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8:30 0:00
10/07 @PHI W 5-4 (SO) 0 0 0 -1 0 2 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6:41 0:00
10/10 PHI L 4-2 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6:46 0:00
10/16 NJ W 4-2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3:59 0:00
10/18 NSH L 3-0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 6:47 0:00
10/21 @TOR W 5-4 (SO) 1 0 1 1 0 2 50.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8:29 8:29
10/25 FLA L 4-2 0 0 0 -1 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 8:57 0:00
11/01 @ANH W 4-3 (OT) 0 0 0 -2 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3:45 0:00

That DarrenTucotte clown who says he travels with the team in camp is just full of BS since he don't even know Dawes made the team.

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Old
07-06-2008, 06:54 PM
  #65
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Good for Renney. He's only got so much time to take this team to the cup, no need to waste another season. The team needs to keep moving forward.

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Old
07-06-2008, 06:58 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
Here it is, Tom.

The chance to prove that you were being held back by Jagr, who wanted everything ran his way.

Here's your chance to prove that it's not your fault the power play sucked last year.

Here's your chance to prove that this team is better off younger, and faster.

Here's your chance to prove that you could be the coach to take this team to the top.

There are no excuses for him now. This is how he wanted it, and he's got what he wants. Now, he has to make it work, and take accountability when it does and doesn't work.
Amen.

He gets a bit of a fresh start in my opinion as well.

Good to see. Now all he has to do is make it work.

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07-06-2008, 10:30 PM
  #67
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Here's my predictions:

1. Renney will NOT be able to bail out Slats this time.
2. Dawes will be proven a bust by mid season. Zherdev will be moved from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to bench to 1st and so on. He will be producing, but we will be losing due to mess in D, where Staal will be inconsistent having sophomore letdown.
3. Naslund will not mesh with Gomez, or Sundin (if signed) and we will be w/o 1st line very mush like last season. Drury will not work well with Shanahan (signed by the end of July).
4. We will be out of playoffs by trade deadline.
5. Renney will be fired. Pern will replace him.
6. "Fire Sather" chant will be back.
7. Signing Gomez and Drury will go down as one of the worst in NYR history, as it made Jagr "Persona non Grata" in NY and left us with two ineffective untradable centres.


Last edited by 94now: 07-07-2008 at 02:20 PM.
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07-06-2008, 10:45 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Here's my predictions:

1. Renney will NOT be able to bail out Slats this time.
2. Dawes will be proven a bust by mid season. Zherdev will be moved from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to bench to 1st and so on. He will be producing, but we will be losing due to mess in D, where Staal will be inconsistent having softmore letdown.
3. Naslund will not mesh with Gomez, or Sundin (if signed) and we will be w/o 1st line very mush like last season. Drury will not work well with Shanahan (signed by the end of July).
4. We will be out of playoffs by trade deadline.
5. Renney will be fired. Pern will replace him.
6. "Fire Sather" chant will be back.
7. Signing Gomez and Drury will go down as one of the worst in NYR history, as it made Jagr "Persona non Grata" in NY and left us with two ineffective untradable centres.
Whew, aren't you the optimistic one.

While I agree with some of your points (Dawes busting and Naslund not meshing), I think that you're being overly pessimistic on the rest of the fronts. Your scenario plays out as basically the worst possible case and I just don't see it being that bad. Even should we not be able to score I believe Lundqvist has the ability to keep us in games as we saw early last year. I'm slightly worried about chemistry but these things work themselves out over time and I think both Gomez and Drury will prove to be good signings if not this year then next. The leadership and experience they bring will be able to shine through fully now that Jagr and Shanny are out, I think.


Last edited by BlueBlooded: 07-06-2008 at 10:51 PM.
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07-06-2008, 10:45 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Here's my predictions:

1. Renney will NOT be able to bail out Slats this time.
2. Dawes will be proven a bust by mid season. Zherdev will be moved from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to bench to 1st and so on. He will be producing, but we will be losing due to mess in D, where Staal will be inconsistent having softmore letdown.
3. Naslund will not mesh with Gomez, or Sundin (if signed) and we will be w/o 1st line very mush like last season. Drury will not work well with Shanahan (signed by the end of July).
4. We will be out of playoffs by trade deadline.
5. Renney will be fired. Pern will replace him.
6. "Fire Sather" chant will be back.
7. Signing Gomez and Drury will go down as one of the worst in NYR history, as it made Jagr "Persona non Grata" in NY and left us with two ineffective untradable centres.

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07-06-2008, 10:58 PM
  #70
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oh no, not the dreaded "softmore letdown"

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07-06-2008, 11:32 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Here's my predictions:

1. Renney will NOT be able to bail out Slats this time.
2. Dawes will be proven a bust by mid season. Zherdev will be moved from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to bench to 1st and so on. He will be producing, but we will be losing due to mess in D, where Staal will be inconsistent having softmore letdown.
3. Naslund will not mesh with Gomez, or Sundin (if signed) and we will be w/o 1st line very mush like last season. Drury will not work well with Shanahan (signed by the end of July).
4. We will be out of playoffs by trade deadline.
5. Renney will be fired. Pern will replace him.
6. "Fire Sather" chant will be back.
7. Signing Gomez and Drury will go down as one of the worst in NYR history, as it made Jagr "Persona non Grata" in NY and left us with two ineffective untradable centres.
How about Betts? Will this be his break out year. Gee whiz, I sure hope so.

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07-06-2008, 11:42 PM
  #72
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softmore letdown actually is much worse than the dreaded sophomore letdown....

it is known as the tom poti letdown in some circles....mainly the defensive zone faceoff circles....where the defensemen become 'more soft' and are known for their purse-swinging more than their poke checks.

I hope this clears things up...don't worry 94now...i got your back...

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07-07-2008, 12:09 AM
  #73
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As long as the coach is behind the moves...i'm all for it...

Tom's gotta be happy with the groceries Glen bought....as the Tuna would say.

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07-07-2008, 12:26 AM
  #74
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From an outsider's view, I think Zherdev is going to blossom into a 45 goal scorer this season in New York and be the toast of the town. Gomez turned Gionta into a 40 goal scorer and you've got to believe that with Zherdev's size, speed and finishing ability, Gomez has got to be chomping at the bit to be partnered with him.

As for the Drury line, I see Naslund and Fritsche being his wingers and I think Drury and Naslund are going to have great influence on Fritsche.

I also think Wade Redden is going to bounce back after two sub-par seasons in Ottawa. People often forget that Redden had to deal with the death of his mom and the fact that the Ottawa organization no longer wanted him around. I think New York is going to be a great fit for him.

I wouldn't sell this Rangers team short because Jagr and Shanahan are gone. Jagr's never been the same player after being dealt from Pittsburgh (where his heart really is) and Shanahan is at the end of the line (starts out hot, finishes cold because he's gassed).

This infusion of youth is going to make the Rangers a much better team.

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07-07-2008, 07:51 AM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Here's my predictions:

1. Renney will NOT be able to bail out Slats this time.
2. Dawes will be proven a bust by mid season. Zherdev will be moved from 1st to 2nd to 3rd to bench to 1st and so on. He will be producing, but we will be losing due to mess in D, where Staal will be inconsistent having softmore letdown.
3. Naslund will not mesh with Gomez, or Sundin (if signed) and we will be w/o 1st line very mush like last season. Drury will not work well with Shanahan (signed by the end of July).
4. We will be out of playoffs by trade deadline.
5. Renney will be fired. Pern will replace him.
6. "Fire Sather" chant will be back.
7. Signing Gomez and Drury will go down as one of the worst in NYR history, as it made Jagr "Persona non Grata" in NY and left us with two ineffective untradable centres.
Your boundless optimism made my morning, 94.

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