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Dubinsky/Dawes/Staal are very underrated

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07-08-2008, 05:02 PM
  #1
NYRKing
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Dubinsky/Dawes/Staal are very underrated

This has been a very exciting off-season for the Rangers so far. There are so many more questions about the team than last year. I have heard people saying that we could win the Atlantic or even finish outside of the playoffs. So, while everyone has been all over Naslund, Redden, and Zherdev (is Redden overrated, can Zherdev fit in with this team, and is Naslund done), I wonder why people haven't considered the success of Dawes, Dubi, and Staal.

Even I am very confused about what the Rangers will do this year, but I think its wrong to say that we have become a much worse team. Even with these questionable signings and trades, I believe Dawes and Dubinsky will be just as important as Gomez and Drury with our offense and Staal will be our #1 D-man. Dubinsky looked very good last year. He can handle the puck, he uses his size very well, and looks great on the rush. Dawes on the other hand, even though he is a small guy, he can muscle his way through the corners, he has a fantastic shot, but most of all he really has great composure and good hockey sense. So before anyone says without Jagr and Shanny were done, and Zherdev and Naslund will only add to chemistry problems, do not forget Dawes and Dubinsky.

As for the defense, I just do not understand why people say the Rangers are now worse. I agree that Tyutin was a good player, but he wasn't going to be the scoring threat we thought he would be. He was replaceable and I'm glad to have Redden over him even though he was over-payed. Roszival is still a scoring threat, and Girardi had a great rookie campaign. Meanwhile Paul Mara and Dimitri Kalinin will be a great third line pairing. Finally, Staal is our man. He was under the spotlight last year and I think he played really well with some heavy minutes. If he can begin to join the rush and throw some more pucks at the net, I think we have our number one guy.

Just wanted to know people's thoughts on what Dawes, Dubi, and Staal will do this year. I think people forget that these guys are 1st and second line players and not third line energy guys.

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07-08-2008, 05:04 PM
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Bluenote13
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I don't think they're all the way there yet, but they're on their way.

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07-08-2008, 05:05 PM
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If Muttley saw this thread his head would explode.

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07-08-2008, 05:08 PM
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we may see Dubi and the others on the top 2 lines because that is what worked best. This year, it may not work like that. Hell, Dubi could end up on the first if he fits with Nazzy/Zherdev or at the bottom. You never know. Chemistry is a huge piece of a player's success. Yes we have seen these guys do some great things but in the big scheme of things, they are just a couple of hard working young guys and Ranger fans can't be making them into stuff they aren't. Are they underrated by people? Yes probably. But are Ranger fans overrating them just a little bit? Yea I think so. Its all relative.

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07-08-2008, 05:12 PM
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If Muttley saw this thread his head would explode.
That would be a real shame, wouldn't it?

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07-08-2008, 05:19 PM
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Fletch
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I actually think...

that Dubi will have a sophomore-like slump this season and his production may remain the same, possibly decrease a bit. But that doesn't mean he'll have a bad season. He will continue to win faceoffs and become more involved and begin his development into a decent two-way player. But it's all dependent on where he plays. If he's on a third line, it definitely will be less. If he's with goal scorers, I think it will be kind of similar. Dawes will score more goals, but mostly only if he plays in more games and gets more PP time. Staal I think will continue to blossom and will continue to focus on defense, so his point totals won't increase dramatically as many will hope. My hope is that he becomes more physical, but perhaps he'll still keep it simple for much of the season.

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07-08-2008, 05:24 PM
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Funny, I think they are overrated.

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07-08-2008, 05:32 PM
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Dubinsky had a great season last season and I only really see him improving. Although that all depends on who his linemates are. Dawes is overrated in my opinion, he is not all that special. He disappears a lot of games and really doesn't impress me when he is there. Staal will just keep improving, he has the attitude and skill to do so.

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07-08-2008, 05:50 PM
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Don't misunderstand me, I'm not saying these guys will be 30 goal scorers. I think that Dubinsky will get 20 goals hopefully 50 points and daws might net another 15 with 40 pts if he plays on the first two lines.

More importantly, I think that Dubinsky can really help either Naslund or Zherdev with their game. While Jagr was a great player its still difficult to play with him sometimes, and I think Dubi takes too much crap from critics when they say his success should be attributed to playing with Jagr.

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07-08-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
that Dubi will have a sophomore-like slump this season and his production may remain the same, possibly decrease a bit. But that doesn't mean he'll have a bad season. He will continue to win faceoffs and become more involved and begin his development into a decent two-way player. But it's all dependent on where he plays. If he's on a third line, it definitely will be less. If he's with goal scorers, I think it will be kind of similar. Dawes will score more goals, but mostly only if he plays in more games and gets more PP time. Staal I think will continue to blossom and will continue to focus on defense, so his point totals won't increase dramatically as many will hope. My hope is that he becomes more physical, but perhaps he'll still keep it simple for much of the season.
For fun, I will predict the opposite. Not looking for Jagr at every turn, he will blossom into the scoring threat we saw at the young stars game

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07-08-2008, 06:02 PM
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I think these guys are actually rated just right, all of them are full of potential, none have accomplished anything yet, but I think we could come away with 2 solid second liners and a top pair defenseman

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07-08-2008, 06:03 PM
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Originally Posted by n8 View Post
For fun, I will predict the opposite. Not looking for Jagr at every turn, he will blossom into the scoring threat we saw at the young stars game
You're not far off...once Straka was moved up to that line Dubi started deferring more to Jagr and Straka. Personally, I'd like to see Drury moved to LW, and Dubi be the 2nd line center. I also think Fritsche is going to surprise a lot of poeple.

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07-08-2008, 06:09 PM
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He may've deferred to Jagr...

but Jagr gave him room to skate and set him up a heck of a lot. The line of Prucha/Dubi/Cally looked good, so he didn't look good only on Jagr's line, but a lot of his success was with Jagr to his right and that had a lot to do with his success.

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07-08-2008, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
but Jagr gave him room to skate and set him up a heck of a lot. The line of Prucha/Dubi/Cally looked good, so he didn't look good only on Jagr's line, but a lot of his success was with Jagr to his right and that had a lot to do with his success.
Dubi looked better when the line was him, Jagr and Avery. He seemed less aggressive and more deferential, especially on the PP.

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07-08-2008, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Dubi looked better when the line was him, Jagr and Avery. He seemed less aggressive and more deferential, especially on the PP.
We have done everything possible as a team to make sure Dubinsky has a sophmore slump. The kid has too much talent to play on the 3rd line IMO.

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07-08-2008, 06:24 PM
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John Torturella
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I think a case can be made that Jagr hurt Dubinsky's overall game. Maybe the numbers increased, but the amount of offense Dubinsky actually produced was most likely decreased due to having to change his style to play with a pouting teammate.

Instead of Jagr changing his game to play with Gomez or Drury, we had to have a rookie change his overall style to play with Jagr.

One thing it seemed Dubinsky stopped doing alot of was using his speed to create offense. He had to play the slower style that made Jagr somewhat less-pouty.

If Dubinsky uses his speed like we had seen at times to go around defenders and drives to the net he could at least match last years totals IMO.

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07-08-2008, 06:26 PM
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Disagreed with OP.

Consensus seems to be that Staal has the potential to be a true number one. Seems accurate.

Some people talk of Dubinsky like he's at least a second line center, bordering on first line talent. That's overrating him.

Dawes is a toss-up. Seems 50/50 around here whether people think he's a legit sniper or not (or whether he'll become one).

Definitely don't think they're overrated.

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07-08-2008, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
We have done everything possible as a team to make sure Dubinsky has a sophmore slump. The kid has too much talent to play on the 3rd line IMO.
Which is why I expect him to be in the top six...he'd give the Rangers the the most grit and toughness, something either Naslund or Zherdev would benefit from playing next to. I'm not sold on Dawes, and I expect Prucha to be gone.

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07-08-2008, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by motime42 View Post
I think a case can be made that Jagr hurt Dubinsky's overall game. Maybe the numbers increased, but the amount of offense Dubinsky actually produced was most likely decreased due to having to change his style to play with a pouting teammate.

Instead of Jagr changing his game to play with Gomez or Drury, we had to have a rookie change his overall style to play with Jagr.

One thing it seemed Dubinsky stopped doing alot of was using his speed to create offense. He had to play the slower style that made Jagr somewhat less-pouty.

If Dubinsky uses his speed like we had seen at times to go around defenders and drives to the net he could at least match last years totals IMO.
Stick to the Yankees.

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07-08-2008, 06:29 PM
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Dubinsky had a great season last season and I only really see him improving. Although that all depends on who his linemates are. Dawes is overrated in my opinion, he is not all that special. He disappears a lot of games and really doesn't impress me when he is there. Staal will just keep improving, he has the attitude and skill to do so.
Please define "disappears".

By not putting up a point per game he "disappears"?

You know someone can play well away from the puck, and possibly not be all that noticeable during a game, because, usually solid defensive players tend to be "invisible" to casual fans. Or fans who may not know the smaller aspects of the game such as positioning, cutting off passing lanes, back checking... all things he does on a consistent, nightly basis. Because the yare not looking for that, they are looking for the highlight reel plays.

When he gets his chance he does something with the puck.

Not all players are like Ovechkin and possess the skill and power to dominate a game at their own pace.

Dawes plays a very steady, smart, subtle game away from the puck.

And he possesses elite passing skill.

Not sure exactly what you are expecting from someone who got 12:59 ATOI in his rookie season, while scoring 14 goals and being a +11.

I think some people are overlooking him because he is not a "sexy" player with the highlight reel moves and goals, and because he doesn't have Malkin's size.

He is short, yea, but he also weighs in at 200 lbs of pure muscle.

I, for one, would like to see what he can do with top 6 minutes over the course of a full season. If he put up 14 goals, +11 while only logging 12:59, over only 61 games in his rookie season, i'm sure he is capable of having a stellar sophomore campaign.

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07-08-2008, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post

Some people talk of Dubinsky like he's at least a second line center, bordering on first line talent. That's overrating him.
Renney has stated he believes that Dubinsky has the ability to be a 1st line center. I'll defer to him.

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07-08-2008, 06:35 PM
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jas...

I agree he looked better with Avery and Jagr. That was a nice line. I don't think Avery looked good at all on the PP when he was out there with Jagr. I still believe that was a huge mistake (to not have a guy who carries the puck more inside the zone and moves around more than Dubi). That's not necessarily a knock on Dubi, it's more that I don't think his skills meshed well with Jagr's on the PP.

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07-08-2008, 06:39 PM
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We have done everything possible as a team to make sure Dubinsky has a sophmore slump. The kid has too much talent to play on the 3rd line IMO.
If Anisimov impresses Renney in camp the way he has at prospect camp, Anisimov has a chance to win a spot.

If so, that means he is centering the 3rd line while Dubinsky would be bumped up to the second line and Drury moved to wing (like he was in Colorado).

IMO, that is the best possible scenario for all parties involved.

Drury can still take important faceoffs, if needed. Otherwise, a top line of Drury - Gomez - Zherdev would be fantastic. And here is why: a guy who is solid defensively, who stands in front of the net on the attack, a guy who rushes the puck and finds an open man, and a guy who has a great shot and speed to keep up with Gomez on the rush.

This allows Dubinsky to work with Naslund on the second line, and "x" on the other wing.

Anisimov gets his chance on the third line.

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07-08-2008, 06:39 PM
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Synergy27
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Funny, I think they are overrated.
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
We have done everything possible as a team to make sure Dubinsky has a sophmore slump. The kid has too much talent to play on the 3rd line IMO.
What now?

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07-08-2008, 06:40 PM
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Renney has stated he believes that Dubinsky has the ability to be a 1st line center. I'll defer to him.
Agreed.

He scored 40 points as a 21 year old rookie.

How does that NOT consider him as a top 2 center?

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