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Dubinsky/Dawes/Staal are very underrated

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Old
07-08-2008, 10:59 PM
  #51
BobMarleyNYR
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I noticed that also... he never built a reputation with his pass in the W, but he did show some real set-up ability.

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07-08-2008, 11:07 PM
  #52
John Torturella
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Stick to the Yankees.
No need to be an ******* pal. Just my opinion. You dont have bash people's opinions. You can make your argument with some thought involved instead making a smartass comment.

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07-08-2008, 11:18 PM
  #53
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This is the first I've heard of anyone thinking Dubi and Staal are underrated.

Staal has #1 d-man written all over him. Once he fills out, you're going to see the kid let his mean streak out and start flattening people. He has a ton of untapped offensive potential as well. He is definitely the core of our blue line.

Dubinsky is a very good young forward. He's shown flashes of absolute brilliance where I thought I was looking at Vinny Lecavalier out there. I definitely think he'll be a steady 25-30g / 40A player when he settles in.

Dawes, on the other hand, I'm not so sure about. He's skilled, but I just don't see that NHL confidence in him that I see with Staal and Dubinsky. He's small, but he doesn't have that breakaway speed that he should. He might have a breakout season, but I'm not sure he's going to be a 30 goal scorer like everyone claims he will.

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07-08-2008, 11:32 PM
  #54
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Here is how I see things:

Staal is going to become one of the best #2 defensemen in the league. He will be a great complimentary first pair defenseman, which is just fine. I think some people expect a little bit too much out of him, which is unfair. I don't see him averaging more than 20-25 points a season, but that's fine for a defensive specialist. He's going to be a very good player. A superstar? maybe not, but a very good player, yes.

I feel the same goes for Dubinsky. I can't ever see him becoming a true first liner, but he should have a long and solid NHL career as a 2nd line center, maybe a 3rd line center on a great team. He'll score 20-25 goals a season and add 30-40 assists, with a lot of intangible additions.

Of all the Ranger forward prospects, he's the one I'd least like to part with in any kind of trade, but if he was the difference between acquiring a serious goal-scoring winger, I'd give him up.

As for Dawes, I think the future is still unclear. He has a great hands, no doubt about it, but you worry if he can put all the tools together. I like the guy and think he will become a decent player, probably a 20 goal, 20 assist per season player. but I'd have no problem trading him as part of a package for a better forward, which I think is a very real possibility. I just don't picture all three of Dawes, Prucha and Callahan on this team next year, and I imagine the first two have a higher value than Callahan, who probably doesn't have their offensive ceiling.

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07-09-2008, 12:08 AM
  #55
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heres how i see it:

staal- IMO he is UNDERRATED around the league...people see him and he isnt flashy like a phaneuf or a weber but he seems to always get the job done.....honestly, i am happy with staal over a flashy guy as those are the guys who normally seem to sputter out early or get injured on a dumb play that isnt needed(like a big hit)

dubinsky- get ready for this everyone.......he is OVERRATED around the league.....people who dont watch the rangers people expect him to be an exact replica of getzlaf......not going to happen....i think he will be a solid second line center....25 goals, 35-45 assists which is very good considering everything else he brings(leadership, grit)........next season i see him getting better #'s than this year, but not by much.....maybe 45-50 points as i think the pp will be better and he will get some points there and i like the idea of him playing with players who play his more natural style.......

dawes- last season i honestly believed dawes was one of the most skilled players on the entire team....he has skilled, balanced forward written all over him......i honeslt expect dawes to break 60 points this season.....he has great vision and the funny thing is that he excels at the pp, which he was barely involved in last year......he is much more offensively oriented than dubinsky is hence it took him longer to get the nhl(lack of defensive awareness), however he has scored at every level and the consistency issue will be solved with time....

fritsche- IMO, from the little i have seen him and read on him seems like a player with callahans grittiness, drury's shot and dubinsky's size........ill take those.....i really like this guy.....hope he gets 15-18 minutes a night with some legitimate linemates as i think he can put up 45 points THIS season even while playing on the third line

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Old
07-09-2008, 12:10 AM
  #56
Jimmy Collins
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Funny, I think they are overrated.
yup.

+1

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Old
07-09-2008, 12:19 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
heres how i see it:

staal- IMO he is UNDERRATED around the league...people see him and he isnt flashy like a phaneuf or a weber but he seems to always get the job done.....honestly, i am happy with staal over a flashy guy as those are the guys who normally seem to sputter out early or get injured on a dumb play that isnt needed(like a big hit)

dubinsky- get ready for this everyone.......he is OVERRATED around the league.....people who dont watch the rangers people expect him to be an exact replica of getzlaf......not going to happen....i think he will be a solid second line center....25 goals, 35-45 assists which is very good considering everything else he brings(leadership, grit)........next season i see him getting better #'s than this year, but not by much.....maybe 45-50 points as i think the pp will be better and he will get some points there and i like the idea of him playing with players who play his more natural style.......

dawes- last season i honestly believed dawes was one of the most skilled players on the entire team....he has skilled, balanced forward written all over him......i honeslt expect dawes to break 60 points this season.....he has great vision and the funny thing is that he excels at the pp, which he was barely involved in last year......he is much more offensively oriented than dubinsky is hence it took him longer to get the nhl(lack of defensive awareness), however he has scored at every level and the consistency issue will be solved with time....

fritsche- IMO, from the little i have seen him and read on him seems like a player with callahans grittiness, drury's shot and dubinsky's size........ill take those.....i really like this guy.....hope he gets 15-18 minutes a night with some legitimate linemates as i think he can put up 45 points THIS season even while playing on the third line
i think fritsche is a younger less gritty adam deadmarsh.

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Old
07-09-2008, 12:22 AM
  #58
Anthony Mauro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Gomez and Drury's 7 million dollar paydays and the absence of Jagr says that Dubinsky is not a top 2 center right now. Will he be? Maybe, but its far from definitive.

Dawes is even more of a wildcard. His play lags for long stretches.

Staal will be a stud.
Using that logic, Redden makes 6.5 million, Roszival makes 5 million, etc...according to you Staal won't be a stud. Tyutin's gone.

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Old
07-09-2008, 08:52 AM
  #61
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honestly i am looking forward more to seeing how dubi, dawes, cally, staal, ani, girardi, prucha, korpedo, moore potter, develop in the offseason than seeing the new guys.

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Old
07-09-2008, 09:11 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Dubinsky was 21 years old this season.

And he centered the top line.

He put up 40 points.

You're not sold on him? Did you watch games on a consistent basis?
Would you consider Travis Zajac a top 2 center? He put up 42 points his rookie season which he started off as 21 years old. And he didn't have Jagr to play with.

Thing is, I think Dubinsky is a stronger/bigger player than Travis. Rather than go into a sophmore slump, I think he'll do just as well if not better. But I can understand why some people aren't quite sold on him.... one year doesn't mean anything.
----------
I don't think anyone underrates Staal. I think most people see him for what he is, a super talented kid who has potential to be a top 10 guy in the league.

Dawes... might be average. Its tough for me to say because most of my focus is on him scoring against New Jersey. But he doesn't do too much scoring elsewhere.

I actually think Callahan can be quite good, and much better than he has been yet

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Old
07-09-2008, 09:28 AM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
Agreed.

He scored 40 points as a 21 year old rookie.

How does that NOT consider him as a top 2 center?
Dubinsky and Dawes are top 6 forwards...........give them a few yrs and they will prove that.....not concerned with them getting ice time

Also Dubinsky will set up as the 3rd C this yr so his numbers may drop a bit BUT the will get PP time on the second unit too

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07-09-2008, 09:52 AM
  #64
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Originally Posted by ExtremeHockeyFan View Post
Regarding Dubinsky, I'd like to see him on line one, on the wing: Dubinsky-Gomez-Zherdev. He's defensively responsible, has decent offense, and can hit/play physically. Whether he's a true first liner is debatable, but I never really bought into that line of thinking anyway. Fact is, I think he'd compliment Zherdev and Gomez well -- he would add some hitting, has energy, wouldn't hurt the line in any way, would help defensively, can open lanes and score in close.

With Dubinsky, you hear a lot of talk about he got some offensive bonus from playing with Jagr. And that is true. At the same time, he was playing with Jagr, meaning he was typically going against the opposition's top defense and forward units, and he did well. He didn't get rattled by it; he seemed to actually thrive on it. And I personally think he'd put up even stronger numbers with some experience and some consistent PP time.

Dubinsky isn't elite, by any stretch. But he would make for a solid power forward who can rack up some points, plays solid D, and can add a nice forecheck. Not to mention, it would put Naslund on line two with Drury, offering more balanced scoring over the top two lines. And personally, having seen a lot of Canucks' games because my wife is from Vancouver, I think Naslund pairs up well with Drury.
I agree with the idea of moving Dubi to the wing. He hasn't shown that he is a real 'play making center' in his stint in the NHL. Granted, it may be a little early to tell, but I think he would be well suited in a power-forward role. He definitely has the speed to keep up with Gomez and Zherdev and would add a needed physical presence to the top-line.

Naslund and Drury look good together, but that line needs a true play-maker to really excel and Dawes isn't it IMO. In fact, I think this would be a great opportunity to bring in Anisimov if he was NHL ready.

Naslund - Anisimov - Drury.

This would give the line a real play maker, but more importantly, a big body on an otherwise undersized line. It would also give Anisimov a chance to adjust to the NHL while flanked by two veterans, one of them a very good center himself. You could put that line out and not have to worry about Anisimov having to take all the draws because Drury could do it.

However, I think Anisimov is probably due for another season in Hartford, so all that stuff I typed is moot. Haha.

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07-09-2008, 09:55 AM
  #65
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As an Isles fan I don't know too much about Dawes or Dubinsky. I've thought Dubinsky is over-rated, but I dont watch him night in and out.

As for Staal, he isn't under rated. Every one knows the guy is going to be amazing. I think he will be the best Staal and I dont want to have to play the guy 6 times a year. I think that rating is pretty dead on

You guys have yourself a good team with some good young players. I hope your signings don't work out as an Isles fan, but they were good moves.

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Old
07-09-2008, 10:04 AM
  #66
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How can you say guys that havent proven themselves are underrated? I dont think anyone questions dubinski's skill by the way.

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07-09-2008, 10:24 AM
  #67
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My two cents...

On Staal- Solid rookie season, but I really didn't see anythnig that makes me think he is going to be a superstar. Instead, a very solid defensive defenseman who skates exceptionally well. Could, and should be more physical, and that aspect of his game IMO is what is going to keep him from being one of the leagues elite defenders. Solid number 2 defenseman.

On Dubinsky- Overrated? Hell no. IMO Dubinsky has the highest ceiling of all the current Rangers prospects. Big boy, who certainly has all the tools, but one thing seperates him from the rest of the prospects, and I think that is his heart and desire. He's still just a kid, but already is a bull down low. I don't care if he played with Jagr, the way I see it, Dubinsky earned every bit of his top line minutes with his play. He just kept getting better. I see this kid as a poor man's Rick Nash. I do think he is better suited for the wing. Sophmore slump? Could be, it's happened a few times already to other prospects, but with Dubi I just don't think his game is going to tail off. I could easily see him putting up 60 point seasons in a couple of years.

On Dawes- A true goal scorer! He put together an OK season last year, and really showed his worth in the shootouts. In time, confidence will come and Dawes I think is going to surprise a few people. I see 30 goals in his future, and unfortunately I also think he is one of the more tradeable assets on the club. Within time, I think he is a true top 6 player, and again I expect him to eventually be a 30 goal scorer. Underrated in my book, and even though he is small in size he really doesn't play that way.

On Fritsche- Reserving judgement untill I see him more. Excited to have him though, but I am not going to go out and boast about Sather robbing the Jackets just yet.

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07-09-2008, 10:54 AM
  #68
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I think what Staal did his first year is amazing... playing exceptional throughout most of the season and in the playoffs without even stepping foot in the AHL. He is by no means overrated in my opinion.

As for Dubinsky... we are talking about a guy who worked his ass for for years to get to the NHL and then proving his worth in camp. I just can't see him losing that fire after he made it. Yeah he played with Jagr, but I think he's the type of player that makes his teammates better, not only the other way around. He's also pretty big and very, very strong on the puck given his age and experience.

As for Dawes... he's probably the biggest wild-card. I think with his shot and great vision on the ice he can be a 30 goal 70 point player, but knows. He definitely disappeared more than the other two last season, despite putting up outrageous numbers in Hartford

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07-09-2008, 11:04 AM
  #69
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Move Dubi to wing?

he's 21 years old and has promise up the middle. There's more to playing center than just being a great setup guy. Keep him at center. I'm really against moving guys out of position. It doesn't always work. And in couple years we'll all be saying how this team needs size down the middle - do we then move him back?

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07-09-2008, 11:48 AM
  #70
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No need to be an ******* pal. Just my opinion. You dont have bash people's opinions. You can make your argument with some thought involved instead making a smartass comment.
In your previous post, you admitted that Dubsinky's numbers were probably inflated by playing with Jagr, but then you said his offense may have been hurt by playing with Jagr. What does that even mean? Basically, the crux of the argument was that Dubsinky probably wouldn't have put up better #'s last year but he would have been able to fly around the ice a little bit more without Jagr...in other words, who the hell cares...Numbers = Goals...goals=wins. Its really a disgrace how some Ranger fans are discrediting Jagr at every possible turn. Without him, this franchise would still be wallowing in obscurity. In fact, we might go back to that point without him and all the question marks currently entrenched in our offense.

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07-09-2008, 12:16 PM
  #71
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Every fan-base overrates their prospects and players greatly. There are some realists, but for the majority, every fan-base overrates their players that they watch day in and day out (or underrates, for that matter). You will never find a mix of fans who don't disagree on one players decision-making and play out there on the ice. Put 5 people together and they'll all agree Staal is great, Malik sucks, Jagr isn't what he once was... but they might all disagree on Dawes, or on Dubinsky...

As such, an opinion-based board is nothing short of entertaining and time consuming for us die hard fans, but I find it extremely hard to believe that you think they are underrated.

Staal is overrated on even other boards. Pretty much everywhere here, not just the Ranger board. And we don't really hear much about Dawes anywhere else, and Dubinsky so-so, but they're definitely overrated here.

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Old
07-09-2008, 12:54 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Funny, I think they are overrated.
I do too, not Staal though. Dubinsky and Dawes yes. I don't think Dawes will crack 30 goals more than once or twice in his career if he ever does. I think Dubinsky will be a decent 2nd line center or a great 3rd line center.

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07-09-2008, 02:22 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Blackburn2727 View Post
im still not sold on dubinsky. I still think hes a career third liner. Until he proves he can have the same productivity without jagr, Ill hold back my judgement.
Did you forget last season already? Dubi and Jagr meshed well in the early season, then were split up. When they were split, Dubi kept posting nice numbers, but Jagr went into a big slump. It wasn't until they were reunited that Jagr started going. So Dubi got Jagr going, not the other way around. -Z

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Old
07-09-2008, 02:31 PM
  #74
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i think dubi is a good player, but saying jagr didnt help his point totals is proposterous.....will dubi be a good player?.....i think so.....will he put up 90 points as some are saying?.....i highly doubt it

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Old
07-09-2008, 02:47 PM
  #75
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I don't think Dawes is in the same class as the other two, actually not even close imo. He's very overated imo.


Last edited by titans04: 07-09-2008 at 08:22 PM.
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