HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

#13 Montreal Canadiens Prospect

View Poll Results: who's #13???
Ryan White 49 29.17%
Greg Stewart 5 2.98%
J. T Wyman 5 2.98%
Olivier Fortier 1 0.60%
Niklas Torp 0 0%
Steve Quailer 1 0.60%
Maxim Trunev 14 8.33%
Matt D'Agostini 54 32.14%
Mathieu Carle 22 13.10%
Brock Trotter 0 0%
Andrew Conboy 0 0%
Konstantin Korneev 13 7.74%
Philippe Paquet 0 0%
Jason Missiaen 3 1.79%
Greg Pateryn 1 0.60%
Voters: 168. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-08-2008, 06:15 PM
  #26
Sumhabs
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Québec
Country: Canada
Posts: 306
vCash: 500
it will be d'ago, white, carle, after that, maybe Peteryn and after that Fortier?

Sumhabs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2008, 10:00 PM
  #27
kris
No JDru for TB - yet
 
kris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Calgary via Halifax
Country: Canada
Posts: 842
vCash: 500
Korneev.

Add Pateryn.

kris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2008, 10:55 PM
  #28
Ryan O'Byrne
Registered User
 
Ryan O'Byrne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 908
vCash: 1241
D'Agostini with Carle being next

Ryan O'Byrne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-08-2008, 11:25 PM
  #29
Souffle
A soupçon of nutmeg
 
Souffle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Le Creuset
Country: France
Posts: 3,484
vCash: 500
I think that while these polls are interesting, the results are always a little skewed because you have a fairly good number of people who don't vote for the top 3 contenders for any spot. I don't think we want posters to start voting strategically, to have to decide whether to be counted where it really matters or to go with the player they think deserves the spot.

For example, I voted Valentenko several times when there was zero chance of him winning. So I didn't get my chance to weigh in on the whether, for instance, McDonagh should be ahead of Pacioretty. When we add up all the people who didn't vote for either Pacioretty or McDonagh, or any top two vote getters in a given poll, I think you have a significant enough number to perhaps change things.

It's like the last Liberal leadership convention. Ignatieff was the first choice for something like 30% of the delegates at the initial vote. But very few of the other 70% had him as their second or third choice or even fourth choice. By contrast, Dion wasn't a popular first choice, but he was a very popular second and third and fourth choice, and so kept getting stronger as other candidates got eliminated.

It's just a suggestion, but we could a do a simple run-off vote for every poll ranking. That way there would be the initial poll ranking with 20 choices or whatever, where 10 or 12 players get votes but only 3 or 5 players really get enough to be considered. Then you have the run-off with just those 3 or 5 players.

It may sound like a pain in the ass, but this is after all the slowest part of the season, and so the perfect time to go launch a mega-poll to establish the definitive poster prospect rankings. But whatever, I don't mean this as a criticism of the poll managers, because I think speak for lots of others when I say that their effort and attention to detail is appreciated and a highlight of the summer posting season.

Souffle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 12:32 AM
  #30
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,858
vCash: 500
Voted White (again), but I hear the Korneev camp. However, has anyone seen him play north american style hockey? Thought not. No doubt he's good, but I haven't seen enough of him to rank him higher than White. Pam, darlin', saying he would be a top 3 d man on our team is a little ridiculous. I've only seen him in the international play (I trust it's the same for you), and while he looked good, I hesitate to raise him to such lofty level before seeing how he deals with NHL talent everyday. Something Markov, Komi, and Hammer have shown day in and day out for a few years now.

And the D'Ago thing is just plain flabbergasting. Seriously, better than AND higher potential than half the players in that list? Don't think so, but that's just an opinion. I think we would have seen more of him by now if that was the case.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 04:26 AM
  #31
Qui Gon Dave
Registered User
 
Qui Gon Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cheshire, England
Country: England
Posts: 8,504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Drama View Post
Not only am I shocked that he hasn't been picked yet... i'm shocked that 2 guys still are getting more votes than him.

He was turning heads at training camp before he got injured last year and had an excellent year in the AHL as a rookie, I just find it hilarious right now he only has 7 more votes than Trunev who i'm pretty sure no more than 3 people in this forum have even saw play...
Don't know about anyone else, but I interpret the bit in bold as suggesting that he was excellent in all facets of the game as a rookie. Which is interesting, mainly because I remember him making some big mistakes in his own end last year. Which is fair enough, he was a rookie on a team that struggled a lot. You can't give him a hard time for making mistakes when you know he is still developing. But I also don't think you can throw a blanket statement like "he had an excellent year..." at his play last year. It suggests he was good in every aspect of his game and he simply wasn't, at least not all the time.

At times last year I would say he was very impressive, perhaps excellent, when demonstrating his offensive skills and he made some nice defensive plays in his own end. But there were definate signs of him struggling in his own zone, both when competing physically against some players and reading the game in his own zone and reacting accordingly. It's certainly something he can fix with experience and development, assuming he continues to work hard. However, I doubt you are going to hear Don Lever, Trevor Timmins or Bob Gainey describe some of the mistakes he made last year as 'excellent'. He showed some real promise at times last year, but also some rough edges. He seems to have a bright future ahead of him, assuming he can avoid making similar mistakes too often in future seasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
And the D'Ago thing is just plain flabbergasting. Seriously, better than AND higher potential than half the players in that list? Don't think so, but that's just an opinion. I think we would have seen more of him by now if that was the case.
Maybe I underrate some people still on the list, maybe I just haven't watched enough of them to know better, but as it stands, I don't see a whole heck of a lot of guys who can skate like the wind, stickhandle through tight traffic and shoot the puck fairly accurately over 100mph. He has some areas of his game he needs to work on for sure, but he can play a good game. Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion and if you aren't a fan of the guy, fair enough. But to be flabbergasted that he is in contention for the title of #13 on our prospect list? That strikes me as a touch over the top. Personally, I'd be flabbergasted if Missiaen was considered a better player than Price. At this stage of the voting, unless someone goes completely off the board I think I'd only be slightly surprised at most by how the consensus views the prospects we are currently trying to rank.

If you don't mind, could you tell me why you aren't a fan of D'Agostini? I'd just like to better understand where you are coming from. As for why we haven't seen more of him in Montreal so far, I'll take a stab at that:

06-07: His roookie year in Hamilton. Habs have a bunch of wingers already so despite Andrei Kostitsyn playing lights out hockey, it still takes him a while to get a call up. Milroy called up too when Andrei went back home to be with his family after the birth of his first child. Milroy was playing well and had lots of AHL experience at the time, it was a chance to see how he could do in the NHL.

Result - No surprise (to me at least) that D'Agostini didn't see any NHL time that year.

07-08: The Habs do much better this year, they have Kovalev, A.Kost, Higgins, Ryder, Latendresse, Streit, Begin, Kostopoulos all available to start the year on the wing. In Hamilton, S. Kost passes D'Ago on the depth chart while Matt is playing through a leg injury that ruins his game and Sergei hits the ground running. Add Sergei to the list of wingers above in Montreal. Not much room for D'Agostini to break through, especially considering the amount of young guys they have on the wings. He gets a one game look in to end the year although he doesn't impress, but it isn't a deal breaker if a young player isn't awesome in their first taste of NHL action.

Result - He did enough to deserve a call-up to the NHL in his 2nd year of pro, on a team leading it's conference that is stacked on the wings. He put up decent numbers in the AHL while having a difficult year on a poor team.

Overall, I don't see it as a surprise that we haven't seen more of him yet. He isn't at a make or break point in his career and the Habs don't need wingers right now so there is no need to rush him. Lets say we sign Sundin this off-season for two years, as many of us hope we do. That gives us Sundin, Koivu and Plekanec down the middle. After two years, should we expect Maxwell to have made the team? I wouldn't think so, and the consensus here is that he is our 6th best prospect. Why do you expect D'Agostini to have made more of a mark on the Habs than he currently has?

It might take him a little longer to make the NHL, and ultimately it might not be with the Habs if/when he does make it. But given an opportunity on some team or other, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up scoring goals like this one in the NHL one day.


Last edited by Qui Gon Dave: 07-09-2008 at 04:33 AM. Reason: clarifying a point
Qui Gon Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 06:25 AM
  #32
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,858
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Maybe I underrate some people still on the list, maybe I just haven't watched enough of them to know better, but as it stands, I don't see a whole heck of a lot of guys who can skate like the wind, stickhandle through tight traffic and shoot the puck fairly accurately over 100mph. He has some areas of his game he needs to work on for sure, but he can play a good game. Obviously, you are entitled to your opinion and if you aren't a fan of the guy, fair enough. But to be flabbergasted that he is in contention for the title of #13 on our prospect list? That strikes me as a touch over the top. Personally, I'd be flabbergasted if Missiaen was considered a better player than Price. At this stage of the voting, unless someone goes completely off the board I think I'd only be slightly surprised at most by how the consensus views the prospects we are currently trying to rank.

If you don't mind, could you tell me why you aren't a fan of D'Agostini? I'd just like to better understand where you are coming from. As for why we haven't seen more of him in Montreal so far, I'll take a stab at that:

06-07: His roookie year in Hamilton. Habs have a bunch of wingers already so despite Andrei Kostitsyn playing lights out hockey, it still takes him a while to get a call up. Milroy called up too when Andrei went back home to be with his family after the birth of his first child. Milroy was playing well and had lots of AHL experience at the time, it was a chance to see how he could do in the NHL.

Result - No surprise (to me at least) that D'Agostini didn't see any NHL time that year.

07-08: The Habs do much better this year, they have Kovalev, A.Kost, Higgins, Ryder, Latendresse, Streit, Begin, Kostopoulos all available to start the year on the wing. In Hamilton, S. Kost passes D'Ago on the depth chart while Matt is playing through a leg injury that ruins his game and Sergei hits the ground running. Add Sergei to the list of wingers above in Montreal. Not much room for D'Agostini to break through, especially considering the amount of young guys they have on the wings. He gets a one game look in to end the year although he doesn't impress, but it isn't a deal breaker if a young player isn't awesome in their first taste of NHL action.

Result - He did enough to deserve a call-up to the NHL in his 2nd year of pro, on a team leading it's conference that is stacked on the wings. He put up decent numbers in the AHL while having a difficult year on a poor team.

Overall, I don't see it as a surprise that we haven't seen more of him yet. He isn't at a make or break point in his career and the Habs don't need wingers right now so there is no need to rush him. Lets say we sign Sundin this off-season for two years, as many of us hope we do. That gives us Sundin, Koivu and Plekanec down the middle. After two years, should we expect Maxwell to have made the team? I wouldn't think so, and the consensus here is that he is our 6th best prospect. Why do you expect D'Agostini to have made more of a mark on the Habs than he currently has?

It might take him a little longer to make the NHL, and ultimately it might not be with the Habs if/when he does make it. But given an opportunity on some team or other, I wouldn't be surprised if he ends up scoring goals like this one in the NHL one day.
Hey, when it comes to opinions of guys in Hamilton, I'll take a back seat to you any day. And pardon the hyperbolic use of "flabbergasted." It's really hard for me to rank D'Ago, as ever since I became aware of him, I've seen him (limitedly) perform adequately at just about every facet of the game, but haven't seen anything super WOW about him, like I have in some of the other prospects on the list. Not that they weren't/aren't there, I just obviously missed them. But seriously, he started getting votes back at the #6 position. I would have predicted around 10. But hey, what do I know?

One thing I haven't missed, is that he seems to have bulked up a bit without losing any speed. And I'll admit, he has a nice shot. My impression of him has certainly increased over the last 12 months. But not to the point where I, personally, would rank him above some of the other guys here who seem just a little more "special."

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 06:50 AM
  #33
Qui Gon Dave
Registered User
 
Qui Gon Dave's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Cheshire, England
Country: England
Posts: 8,504
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Hey, when it comes to opinions of guys in Hamilton, I'll take a back seat to you any day.
I'm not sure that's needed. If you go through the Hamilton/Cinci thread from last year, you'll find me saying that I didn't think Sergei and O'Byrne were quite ready for a callup. I think O'B got called up 3 days after I posted that

I just wanted to try and understand where you were coming from, as you made clear in the rest of your reply.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
And pardon the hyperbolic use of "flabbergasted." It's really hard for me to rank D'Ago, as ever since I became aware of him, I've seen him (limitedly) perform adequately at just about every facet of the game, but haven't seen anything super WOW about him, like I have in some of the other prospects on the list. Not that they weren't/aren't there, I just obviously missed them.
He seems to go through phases, from what I've seen. To start last year, he really struggled with his leg injury, it changed his entire game IMO. He wasn't fast enough or agile enough to beat guys one on one very often, he couldn't get into position quickly enough when he read the play, he just looked like a shadow of himself the previous year. Later on though, he kicked it up a few gears and for a decent stretch of time, really turned his game up. I've said it before but I think he is at his best when his hands work their magic. His stickhandling seems a little inconsistent for whatever reason, but when he gets it going, combined with his speed and his shot, he can do some real damage. There are times when his game seems a little quiet or average, with the occasional flash of skill or great shot. I think if you saw him when he is on though, you'd be more impressed.

Whether he can ever find that game consistently at the AHL level, we might find out in a few months. Similar questions will be asked if/when he makes the NHL. But he does have some explosive scoring ability within him (at his current level of play) so hopefully he demostrates more of it this season. In the mean time, if I find the relevant highlights on the Bulldogs site, I'll point you in the direction of them, if you're interested.

Qui Gon Dave is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 10:43 AM
  #34
Beakermania*
 
Beakermania*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Kingston or Hamilton
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,964
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
So White and D'Agostini are higher than Korneev.

If we can get this guy in our team he will be Top-3 defensemen immediatly.

I see:
  1. Markov;
  2. Korneev;
  3. Komisarek;
  4. Hamrlik.
Next year...

Yes, better than Komi and Hammer...
I'm a huge Korneev supporter and have been for a while, but I don't think he'll be our #2 dman..... I think he has a shot to be our #4, and definetely makes our top 6 though.

Beakermania* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 10:45 AM
  #35
Marc the Habs Fan
Moderator
Ours!
 
Marc the Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Longueuil
Country: Canada
Posts: 51,959
vCash: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by pam19 View Post
So White and D'Agostini are higher than Korneev.

If we can get this guy in our team he will be Top-3 defensemen immediatly.

I see:
  1. Markov;
  2. Korneev;
  3. Komisarek;
  4. Hamrlik.
Next year...

Yes, better than Komi and Hammer...
The part in bold is the reason right there why most people are not hoping on the Korneev train. What are the odds he even comes over? I say 10% at most.

Marc the Habs Fan is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 11:19 AM
  #36
YMCMBeaulieu
A$AP MICHEL
 
YMCMBeaulieu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Don't know about anyone else, but I interpret the bit in bold as suggesting that he was excellent in all facets of the game as a rookie. Which is interesting, mainly because I remember him making some big mistakes in his own end last year. Which is fair enough, he was a rookie on a team that struggled a lot. You can't give him a hard time for making mistakes when you know he is still developing. But I also don't think you can throw a blanket statement like "he had an excellent year..." at his play last year. It suggests he was good in every aspect of his game and he simply wasn't, at least not all the time.

At times last year I would say he was very impressive, perhaps excellent, when demonstrating his offensive skills and he made some nice defensive plays in his own end. But there were definate signs of him struggling in his own zone, both when competing physically against some players and reading the game in his own zone and reacting accordingly. It's certainly something he can fix with experience and development, assuming he continues to work hard. However, I doubt you are going to hear Don Lever, Trevor Timmins or Bob Gainey describe some of the mistakes he made last year as 'excellent'. He showed some real promise at times last year, but also some rough edges. He seems to have a bright future ahead of him, assuming he can avoid making similar mistakes too often in future seasons.

If you don't mind, could you tell me why you aren't a fan of D'Agostini? I'd just like to better understand where you are coming from. As for why we haven't seen more of him in Montreal so far, I'll take a stab at that:
I meant excellent as a rookie, I found the games I watched he looked impressive as a rookie but he still did have a lot of parts of his game where he needs improvement. But for a 2nd round pick who many people around here don't consider in our top 5 for defense prospects I thought he had an excellent first season in the AHL in terms of being a rookie.

As for D'Ago i'm a huge fan of his too, not only because of his skills but because one of my buddy's is actually best friends with him and grew up beside him lol... I think many people notice D'Agostini's weak plus/minus and his point total wasn't brilliant either this year and assume that his development regressed, but the more and more I see of D'Ago the more impressed I am with him. Hopefully he sticks around in Montreal for more than one game this year.

To have guys like Carle and D'Agostini not even considered top 10 prospects in Montreal's system shows how impressive our prospect depth really is.

YMCMBeaulieu is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 05:51 PM
  #37
JrHockeyFan
Registered User
 
JrHockeyFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 5,520
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Voted White (again), but I hear the Korneev camp. However, has anyone seen him play north american style hockey? Thought not. No doubt he's good, but I haven't seen enough of him to rank him higher than White. Pam, darlin', saying he would be a top 3 d man on our team is a little ridiculous. I've only seen him in the international play (I trust it's the same for you), and while he looked good, I hesitate to raise him to such lofty level before seeing how he deals with NHL talent everyday. Something Markov, Komi, and Hammer have shown day in and day out for a few years now.

And the D'Ago thing is just plain flabbergasting. Seriously, better than AND higher potential than half the players in that list? Don't think so, but that's just an opinion. I think we would have seen more of him by now if that was the case.
I've been watching D'Ago since Junior with the Storm. When a player comes out of their system and displays good offensive flair it is usually due to innate talent since the team stresses more of a defensive style game.

In camp last year he clicked pretty well with Sergei K. I thought both kids were on an equal footing. Sergei actually went back to Hamilton and showed a better balanced game and got the call up. When he showed his stuff how could you send him back

Let's face it. It is really hard to "see more" of any of the young players. Now that they are clearing the decks a bit by moving Grabo it will open up slightly. Even so breaking in is going to be tough. What I saw of him in Hamilton makes me think D'Ago is a legit prospect.

Until they get their shot it will be hard to argue any selection for best prospect. It is even tougher for some of our "prospects" who are Russian no shows or "never seens".

JrHockeyFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-09-2008, 08:54 PM
  #38
Bobby G
Registered User
 
Bobby G's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,602
vCash: 500
Im surprised Korneev isn't getting many votes.

Is it because people dont think he will come over or because people havent seen him play? or as Ohashi said because of his euro style?

Bobby G is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:00 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.