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OT: Calgary above cap - Trading opportunity?

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Old
07-08-2008, 10:45 PM
  #51
Pere Noel
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Great info.

I was not aware of all those Calgary guys that were put on waivers. That's sounds like they will move these guys one way or another, and that should be plenty to move them back under the cap, as long as they have prospects that can step up to the NHL with low salaries.

Yet, my speculation over Lombardi was also based on the fact that his production went down (while his ice time when up) under Keenan. It's sort of a contradiction (the ice time going up - and may be explained by injuries to other centers?). But the lost of production could be a sign that Keenan's style does not fit Lombardi's.

So if Calgary ends up keeping him on board, it sounds just like another year of torture under Keenan (I am asking)? It's worth noting that is salary will go up the following year, just before his UFA status.

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07-08-2008, 11:39 PM
  #52
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I might take Warrener to be the 7th D if Calgary took Dandenault. Dandenault is no longer a defenceman, but he's easily replaceable as a F -- in fact, with Laraque, Kostopolous, Begin, Lapierre, Chipchura, Stewart there is no room for the dude even as a 14th forward.

Warrener costs about 600k more, but it's only for a year. He used to be a solid player. A steady no-nonsense type with leadership. But it's hard to keep track of Western Conference players. Maybe he's too broken down, maybe the New NHL has passed him by. He's only 32, though, and some guys catch their second wind after taking almost a year off and starting over with lesser expectations.

I haven't seen enough of him recently. There are probably much cheaper 7th D options. But if the guy actually isn't finished and is due for a comeback, I think it could be the kind of move that pays off large over the course of a season. At worst it's another Niinimaa, but without giving up a Ribeiro, only a Dandenault who has no spot and who costs 1.8 million anyway.

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07-09-2008, 06:44 AM
  #53
Pere Noel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davedave View Post
I might take Warrener to be the 7th D if Calgary took Dandenault. Dandenault is no longer a defenceman, but he's easily replaceable as a F -- in fact, with Laraque, Kostopolous, Begin, Lapierre, Chipchura, Stewart there is no room for the dude even as a 14th forward.

Warrener costs about 600k more, but it's only for a year. He used to be a solid player. A steady no-nonsense type with leadership. But it's hard to keep track of Western Conference players. Maybe he's too broken down, maybe the New NHL has passed him by. He's only 32, though, and some guys catch their second wind after taking almost a year off and starting over with lesser expectations.

I haven't seen enough of him recently. There are probably much cheaper 7th D options. But if the guy actually isn't finished and is due for a comeback, I think it could be the kind of move that pays off large over the course of a season. At worst it's another Niinimaa, but without giving up a Ribeiro, only a Dandenault who has no spot and who costs 1.8 million anyway.
Hi davedave,

Nice thinking.

I digged a little bit more following your comment, and it appears that Warrener gets hurt a lot at this point of his career.

-Jun-08 Placed on waivers by the Calgary Flames.

Extract from faceoff.com:
22-Apr-08 Missed the last 10 games of the regular season and 7 playoffs games (ankle injury).
18-Mar-08 Ankle injury, day-to-day.
05-Jan-08 Missed 19 games (fractured leg).
29-Nov-07 Fractured leg, late January.
25-Nov-07 Leg injury, day-to-day.
13-Nov-07 Missed 4 games (throat).
03-Nov-07 Throat, day-to-day.
20-Mar-07 Missed 3 games (undisclosed).
14-Mar-07 Undisclosed injury, sidelined indefinitely.
10-Feb-07 Missed 2 games (arm injury).
06-Feb-07 Arm injury, day-to-day.
23-Dec-06 Missed 5 games (leg injury).
12-Dec-06 Leg injury, day-to-day.
28-Nov-06 Missed 1 game (hip injury).
26-Nov-06 Hip injury, day-to-day.
17-Oct-06 Missed 5 games (knee injury).
05-Oct-06 Knee injury, mid-October.
11-Apr-06 Missed 17 games (sprained MCL).
09-Mar-06 Sprained MCL, mid-April.
06-Jan-06 Missed 3 games (knee injury).
29-Dec-05 Knee injury, day-to-day.
12-Aug-05 Re-signed as a restricted free agent by the Calgary Flames to a multi-year contract.
I think I would keep Dandenault instead. He can play both defence and forwards and I am guessing that he accept is new role (reserve player) this year. Carbonneau was talking about him lately and mentionned him in this role.

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07-09-2008, 09:03 AM
  #54
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Anyone else find it funny how our team is already speculated as a top 6 team in the NHL and yet we've got the most cap space of anybody I can think of who is a serious contender?

Imo if we do somehow sign sundin, we've got a cup.

Imo if Sundin signs in Vancouver then he's really just a greedy guy who doesn't care about the game enough to play it to win.

If he signs in Vancouver then he might as well sign in Toronto, they're about equally awful if you compaire how strong the western conference is to Vancouver and the Eastern is to Toronto.

Imo Sundin would have to be a real greedy **** to pass up a 1-2 year deal with MTL at 7.5+ million just to make an extra 2.5 million per season for a non contender until he retires.

If he signs with us for sure we'll be the best team in the East and will likely win the cup. At that point it will depend soley on Price/Halak's performances because I know guys like:

Kovalev/Kostitsyn/Kostitsyn/Tanguay/Koivu/Markov/Higgins/Sundin/Whoever I'm forgetting, will all produce good numbers.

I know Komisarek and Hamrlik, Gorges, etc will shut down the other teams offense night in and night out. Especially now that we have Laraques/Begin/Lapierre type checking line to keep people on their toes, imagine the intensity of a 3rd line like this.

The only grey area on our team really is Latendresse.

We have great depth for injuries too up front. Stewart, Chipchura, D'Agostini, these guys need a shot.

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Old
07-09-2008, 09:27 AM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogbert View Post
Bingo. None of those three players will be on the team next year. If Sutter can't trade them, they'll be sent down to Quad City.
And AHL players do not count against the cap. You can stash as much salary as you like in the AHL, after all.



/thread

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07-09-2008, 09:38 AM
  #56
otto bond
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Originally Posted by Montrealer View Post
And AHL players do not count against the cap. You can stash as much salary as you like in the AHL, after all.



/thread
If I'm not mistaking, there is a+-50 pro contract max!

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07-09-2008, 10:12 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
Anyone else find it funny how our team is already speculated as a top 6 team in the NHL and yet we've got the most cap space of anybody I can think of who is a serious contender?

Imo if we do somehow sign sundin, we've got a cup.

Imo if Sundin signs in Vancouver then he's really just a greedy guy who doesn't care about the game enough to play it to win.

If he signs in Vancouver then he might as well sign in Toronto, they're about equally awful if you compaire how strong the western conference is to Vancouver and the Eastern is to Toronto.
I don't think we have a Cup, by any stretch. I wouldn't discount any team with Sidney Crosby and the Red Wings just added the top free agent and lost nothing major. The Wings are easily the Cup favorites, even if we add Sundin.

Also, greed is taking the top dollar contract no matter what. Bluntly, the Canucks offer likely blows a Montreal offer away. It's not greed if he takes it, it's common sense. That's 30% more money.

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07-09-2008, 10:51 AM
  #58
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Wow, looking at the Chicago roster and cap situation, I don't know what they are planning on doing.

They are 415K over the cap and they only have 10 forwards on their roster. Even if they get rid of one of their roster defenseman, they would be right against the cap. The other problem is that they have Cam Barker in the AHL when he should probably be with the big club. That would put them about 2M over the cap. Looks like they have to dump Lang or Havlat....but who would want those guys? I would love Havlat if he didn't get injured every time he steps on the ice.

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07-09-2008, 10:57 AM
  #59
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nikolai khabibulin and his 6 mil salary says hi... and bye to the black hawks in the not too distant future

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07-09-2008, 11:12 AM
  #60
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What about something like; (the deal could be revised of course)

Ryan O'Byrne
+
Ben Maxwell

FOR

Adrian Aucoin
+
Matthew Lombardi


That frees up a lot of salary and Aucoin becomes our #4 with Hammer (and he'd be gone next year).

a. kost - pleks - kovy
tanguay - koivu - latendresse
higgins - lombardi - s. kost
laraque - chipchura - lappy
tko, begin

markov - komisarek
hamrlik - aucoin
bouillon - gorges
brisebois

price
halak



We use some youth, but make a major push to be a top contender this season.

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07-09-2008, 11:27 AM
  #61
Lord Horse
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Quote:
Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
What about something like; (the deal could be revised of course)

Ryan O'Byrne
+
Ben Maxwell

FOR

Adrian Aucoin
+
Matthew Lombardi


That frees up a lot of salary and Aucoin becomes our #4 with Hammer (and he'd be gone next year).

a. kost - pleks - kovy
tanguay - koivu - latendresse
higgins - lombardi - s. kost
laraque - chipchura - lappy
tko, begin

markov - komisarek
hamrlik - aucoin
bouillon - gorges
brisebois

price
halak



We use some youth, but make a major push to be a top contender this season.
Hmmmm.... not a chance. I would way rather have O'Byrne than O'Coin, as much as Lombardi would help us.

Be patient, wait for Mats.

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07-09-2008, 11:29 AM
  #62
One Man Rock Band
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Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
Hmmmm.... not a chance. I would way rather have O'Byrne than O'Coin, as much as Lombardi would help us.

Be patient, wait for Mats.
Aucoin > O'Byrne at this point. O'Byrne has great upside, but our depth is incredible defensively.. if we have to ship him off (or another d-man) we can.

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07-09-2008, 12:37 PM
  #63
Lucius
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Aucoin > O'Byrne at this point. O'Byrne has great upside, but our depth is incredible defensively.. if we have to ship him off (or another d-man) we can.
It's an usually sane proposal for these forums, I give you that, but I think Calgary wants to contend this year and the above is the move of a rebuilding team.

They don't need to wipe out that much salary.

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07-09-2008, 12:54 PM
  #64
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Originally Posted by natey2k4 View Post
Aucoin > O'Byrne at this point. O'Byrne has great upside, but our depth is incredible defensively.. if we have to ship him off (or another d-man) we can.
You're right, but Aucoin is also slow and vulnerable to the Eastern game. My point is that it's a smallish move up for smallish short term gain on the backend. Let's remember that Calgary let Hamrlik go and signed Aucoin - I'm positive we got the better D in that scenario.

I would really like Lombardi in a Habs uniform, he'd be a great 3rd centre, but if we made this deal:

1. The potential for Sundin in the lineup would put ML at #4 C spot, a waste of $$$
2. Officially lagging our development of centres
3. Which is fine since we'd be giving up probably our best offensive C prospect
4. And our closest D prospect
5. And still have to do ??? which Lapierre (on the wing? yeah right!) & Chipchura

Your proposal isn't really a bad one, n2k4, but there's a development and numbers game here that I'd rather not upset. I don't count my D prospects before they're hatched, see, so anyone not burning up the AHL in Hamilton right now can't be counted on. Is our D-prospect pool deep? Maybe, some might say definitely, but I'd prefer a more conservative style. Subban this, Weber that, but until they turn pro, let's please hang on to O'Byrne.

If we're going to use youth, let's get a real good #4 D or a terrific #1 C, since those are the only places we really need improvement for a "win now" scenario.

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Old
07-09-2008, 01:09 PM
  #65
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Chipper for Lombardi, straight up.

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07-09-2008, 01:41 PM
  #66
sandman08
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
It's an usually sane proposal for these forums, I give you that, but I think Calgary wants to contend this year and the above is the move of a rebuilding team.

They don't need to wipe out that much salary.
exactly.

as stated by the guys from the flames board, they can clear the cap space they need by sending those guys down to the minors or if any of the teams below the cap floor pick them up in a trade or whatever. furthermore, as i said before, lombardi is as important to them as plekanec and koivu are to us (with or without sundin)

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