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07-08-2008, 11:54 AM
  #126
chosen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
When were we "dominated" by Pittsburgh? The only game I can think of was game 5. Every other game (according to anyone else out there) was close and anyone's game.

So unless you watched a different series than everyone else, I have no idea what you're referring to. Can't be the 2007/2008 NHL Playoff 2nd round match-up.
Under your definition a team could be swept in 4 and not be dominated. The only game the Rangers were able to win was the obligatory last stand at home to prevent being shut out.

While watching the games I felt it was clear who the better team was. Even when the Rangers jumped out to that first lead I thought they were being outplayed and the scoreboard eventually did reflect that.

Do you believe that if both rosters would have remained pat that the Rangers could possibly have beaten the Penguins next year? Even with the loss of Hossa they are ridiculously talented and ridiculously young.

It's impossible to know the effects of all these off season changes right now but it's awfully difficult to picture beating them next year either unless Crosby or Malkin goes down and the Rangers remain injury free like they did last year, an event unlikely to occur again.


Last edited by chosen: 07-08-2008 at 01:12 PM.
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Old
07-08-2008, 11:57 AM
  #127
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I really believe that far too many fans don't understand just how valuable Jagr was last year despite his loss in numbers. This doesn't mean that they can't win without him but anyone who thinks that they are helped with his leaving are seriously deluded. Without him they probably don't get by Jersey or even make the playoffs. The only other players that can be said for are Lundqvist and perhaps Gomez.

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Old
07-08-2008, 12:43 PM
  #128
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I agree Chosen...

which is probably why there was a good deal of change over, at forward and on defense, since they are changing the makeup of the team.

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Old
07-08-2008, 12:49 PM
  #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
which is probably why there was a good deal of change over, at forward and on defense, since they are changing the makeup of the team.
exactly if we would have just signed naslund to replace jagr thinking everything would be fine would have been a huge mistake

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Old
07-09-2008, 10:17 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
do you just disagree for the sake of disagreeing? I think you actually agree with me, or wasn't I clear. Graves wasn't here. That's the point. And as such the PP was designed to fit the style of the players. If the team had a Graves type, and a Leetch and a Zubov, perhaps we would've seen more point shots and traffic in front. But since that Graves-type wasn't here, and because there were guys like Jagr, the style of play had to be different. More passing. Hoping to catch the defense moving to sneak a shot through.

Leetch - it was inconsistent. I think most PPs are inconsistent. Montreal easily had the best PP in the league, They actually began the seasons 3 for their first 33 - 9% compared to 24% throughout the season. Down the stretch they went three straight games without a PP goal, had two games with one each and then two more straight without a goal. I was as frustrated as anyone about the PP. I thought it could've been better. I still believe that, but for the two seasons post-lockout, looking back, it wasn't all that bad. Last season, however, was pretty bad I thought.
Great post Fletch.

How often have our PP been a huge dissapointment? How often have our PK come up big?

And I defenitly agree with you about the point men, thats our biggest problem. Its complete bull that Roz, Mara and co wouldn't shoot, or that that was our biggest problem.

Shooting is like 10% of whats scoring from the blueline is all about. You need to get open lanes to get the puck through to the net, you need to have 2 guys in the face of the goalie et c et c et c.

What a Lidström does is that he can move the puck sideways along the blueline -- while beeing in perfect controll of whats gooing on on the ice, and he then manage to evalute the situation and make a perfect decision.

To say that Roz wasn't shooting enough, is exactly like if I was sitting infront of the soffa, watching a Fotball game, and screaming at the QB everytime he gets the ball for not passing the ball to that guy open in the endzone. Like "Roz shoot more" is exactly like saying "Yo Dan Marino why don't you pass that guy in the endzone more" -- "if only our QB's would figure out to pass that guy in the endzone more" et c et c et c.

Roz aint a elite PP guy. Nobody is complaining at Drury for not skating the puck up ice like Scott Gomez -- right? -- or at Marc Staal for not fighting like Colton Orr, but its Rozsival and Renney's fault that Roz isn't elite on the PP blueline?

Philly gave Kimmo Timmonen 7m per for a reason, if they could have done just as well with someone like Rozsival they wouldn't have paid a 5'10 D, who gets into problems defensivly every now and tehn, that kind of money.

Redden don't get as confused as Roz on the point, he got better track of things infront of him -- but he ain't elite either. If we are gooing to get with the game on the PP we need some gamers. I really hope that Renney manage to bring Sangunetti into the mix on the blueline atleast this season. And then Del Zotto down the road.

What we can build on now is that hightempo passing style we got gooing on the 1st unit -- IE not JJ's unit -- late in the regular season last year. With Gomez, Drury and I don't even remember who it was. Thats how Philly played it, thats how Montreal played it. Like they camp out guys like Richards and Briere on each side, and got two pointmens who also got their sticks out towards the boards and then just move it around until the box starts cheating some and then they just put it on the net and overload. This is a example of how they overload, like they move the puck around between Timmonen, Coburn and Briere -- so that the box is moved over to the left, then Timmonen gets the puck, Coburns goes towards the net, Briere goes towards the net, Knuble is at the net alread -- and Timmonen feeds Richards a saucer who in his turns just puts it on the net where they got 1 guy already in Knuble and Coburn and Briere jumping in. Thats hard to defend against.

We can do that with like Zherdev (lw) and Näslund (RW) on each sides and Gomez/Drury between them. Or why not Gomez between them and Drury on the left point and Redden on the right. We tried to do it for a while in the regular season late last year, I thought they looked good but I don't think they scored once and then Shanny got back and we went away from it. But I am sure we will try it again this season and with that approch we should be able to hit top 10-20 with the guys we got.

Also, I am a big JJ backer but I said it when he first came here, I've never been able to stand guys like Jagr or Pavel Bure and the likes on the PP. You can't have a shooter who also trys to be the setup man, that will just not work well ever.


Last edited by Ola: 07-09-2008 at 10:23 AM.
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Old
07-09-2008, 10:37 AM
  #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
PP Stuff
Sounds pretty dead on. If there's no shooting lanes, what can you do? And without an exceedingly mobile defenseman back there, the Rangers are going to need their forwards to move the puck around better, and for their D to move without the puck. Either try to open up some lanes for a forward in shooting position, or open up some lanes for the defenseman to blast the puck from the point. But without movement, that will never happen (and never did in the past).

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Old
07-09-2008, 10:50 AM
  #132
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[QUOTE=Trxjw;14774348]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post

i

Zherdev is every bit as fast as Straka. Not to mention he's bigger and more skilled. Naslund is very fast as well, I don't know where you're getting this from.



We have retooled the rig to fit the players we have locked up long term, rather than building the ship around a guy who would have been gone in a year or two. Naslund fits the kind of game Gomez plays; an end-to-end offense that likes to score on the rush. Not to mention he plays the half-boards on the PP. Do you really think the Sedin's are above Gomez and Zherdev in terms of talent? Hardly.


If you really thought a tweak here and there was going to put us over the top, you were mistaken.
Where do you get your stats from that Zherdev is as fast as Straka....?
Zherdev has to prove that he has the discipline, heart, skill to make us forget Jagr and/or Straka.

What I said was that we are retooling and sofar I see no sign of us being a better squad over last year.

As far as comparing the Sedin twins with Gomez/Zherdev combo.....

Plain on paper the twins put up impressive stats +10-23 with 150/170 points between them on average over the past 3 seasons. That would have been a deal worth having....
unspectacular and the real deal


Last edited by Sad London Ranger: 07-09-2008 at 10:57 AM.
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Old
07-09-2008, 10:51 AM
  #133
chosen
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
Sounds pretty dead on. If there's no shooting lanes, what can you do?
One thing you're supposed to do is to fake the big slapper and try and get a forward to go down and block it and also freeze some of the other opposing players. This will open up lanes. I don't remeber Roszival ever doing this.

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Old
07-09-2008, 11:05 AM
  #134
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There wasn't that...

and we didn't see a lot of the exhanges between defensemen (i.e., switching sides, which would have Rozy on the left side, ready for a one-timer). But the mindset was different since the PP mildly worked the prior two seasons without doing that, and that was creating lanes by Jagr and Nylander moving around and playing catch all over the ice. Nobody on the Rangers staff thought that maybe Gomez could be the guy who carries the puck a bit more with Jagr, as Dubi was a guy who wasn't very mobile on the PP and was really there to win an occasional battle and what we had was an extremely static PP for much of the season.

Again, the PP needs to be designed to match the styles of the players on the ice. Not every successful PP goal needs to be a result of a point shot and a big body deflecting the puck into the net or getting garbage around the net. It's what I prefer, but when you have certain guys who can create openings in the defense, you find a way to tailor the PP to fit that style.

Hopefully this season they'll figure it out early on. I'd expect Drury to be the guy on the doorstep. Not the big body you'd like, but he's an expert tipper, he's good at finding garbage and he has a nice quick shot that he can utilize. Gomez seems to be the obvious center choice, although he has never been a part of very good PP teams (I believe the Devils were dead last a few years ago and Nieds was manning the point). Hopefully Redden will be an improvement to whoever was on the left side (not expecting a miracle, but at least an improvement). Then you have an issue - Naslund or Zherdev on the right side - both likely needing/wanting first unit PP time. And hopefully we'll see a PP that's more mobile than last season.

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Old
07-09-2008, 11:28 AM
  #135
NYR Viper
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the pp needs to have pointmen who shoot with their head up........how do a lot of great pp's score a lot?....they always shoot with their heads up!.....they wil take a slap shot and make the goalie commit to their shot and then they look to see if there is an open man as it makes people respect that they will shoot.....the BEST player i have seen at this is kovalev......hence the reason montreals pp is so good....he has shown everyone how to do it.....RENNEY.....PLEASE SHOW VIDEO OF THEIR PP!!

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Old
07-09-2008, 01:37 PM
  #136
Trxjw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post

Where do you get your stats from that Zherdev is as fast as Straka....?
Zherdev has to prove that he has the discipline, heart, skill to make us forget Jagr and/or Straka.

What I said was that we are retooling and sofar I see no sign of us being a better squad over last year.

As far as comparing the Sedin twins with Gomez/Zherdev combo.....

Plain on paper the twins put up impressive stats +10-23 with 150/170 points between them on average over the past 3 seasons. That would have been a deal worth having....
unspectacular and the real deal
I'm not basing Straka and Zherdev's speed on stats. I'm going by what I've seen of them both.

Jagr had heart? ...for the last 15 games of the season maybe. I don't think anyone who has seen Zherdev play can doubt that he has the skill to make Ranger fans stand up and cheer.

You can't compare the Sedins to Gomez/Zherdev based on stats. Two brothers that have been playing together their entire lives vs. two guys that have never played together at all? Gomez has never had a player as skilled as Zherdev on his wing and Zherdev has never had a center as skilled as Gomez. I'll take that possibility any day of the week.

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