Looking back in retrospect at that 2003 Draft where we drafted Stewart with the 25th pick, we could have been much better off if we had drafted C. Perry or P. Eaves. Possibly even moving up one more spot and taking M. Richards!!! We would have had the one scorer we have been lacking if we had gotten any of those players & most likely would have already made the playoffs by now!
2003 Draft:
#3 - N. Horton(FLA)
#24 - M. Richards(PHI)
#25 - A. Stewart(FLA)
#26 - B. Boyle(LA)
#27 - J. Tambellini(LA) #28 - C. Perry(ANA)
#29 - P. Eaves(OTT)
Looking back in retrospect at that 2003 Draft where we drafted Stewart with the 25th pick, we could have been much better off if we had drafted C. Perry or P. Eaves. Possibly even moving up one more spot and taking M. Richards!!! We would have had the one scorer we have been lacking if we had gotten any of those players & most likely would have already made the playoffs by now!
2003 Draft:
#3 - N. Horton(FLA)
#24 - M. Richards(PHI)
#25 - A. Stewart(FLA)
#26 - B. Boyle(LA)
#27 - J. Tambellini(LA) #28 - C. Perry(ANA)
#29 - P. Eaves(OTT)
There's just one flaw with your theory: back in 2003, nobody knew any of that. No one knew Stewart would be on the verge of being a bust by the end of the 2007-2008 season - after all, he looked like a character guy who had offensive upside and was a solid powerforward pick. And remember, Dudley picked him because Keenan wanted him. Same with Horton. None of those others are Keenan types.
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"...and ultimately it doesn't matter."
There's just one flaw with your theory: back in 2003, nobody knew any of that. No one knew Stewart would be on the verge of being a bust by the end of the 2007-2008 season - after all, he looked like a character guy who had offensive upside and was a solid powerforward pick. And remember, Dudley picked him because Keenan wanted him. Same with Horton. None of those others are Keenan types.
I know nobody knows how a player will turn out. I just wanted to remind everyone how another small detail like that(possibly drafting that one scorer instead of drafting a bust) has also contributed to us continueing to miss the playoffs.
I know nobody knows how a player will turn out. I just wanted to remind everyone how another small detail like that(possibly drafting that one scorer instead of drafting a bust) has also contributed to us continueing to miss the playoffs.
It's just one of the problems. Alan Cohen and H. Wayne Huizenga were the two biggest problems since 1997.
But...
Cohen seems to be getting the message and learning how to be a good owner. Now if he'd go one step further and hire a hockey man to be president of the company and just sit back in his luxury box and enjoy, we'd be all set.
But ultimately we've had GMs (and one pushy coach) who've been part of some bad drafting over the years, as well as a string of bad luck (would Stewart have become a bust if he weren't injured two seasons ago? He seemed set to stick with the Panthers after being called up after all) and a lack of a development system. So there's at least room for optimism.
It'll be a big step forward if the Panthers aren't one of the league leaders in man-games lost this season.
It's just one of the problems. Alan Cohen and H. Wayne Huizenga were the two biggest problems since 1997.
But...
Cohen seems to be getting the message and learning how to be a good owner. Now if he'd go one step further and hire a hockey man to be president of the company and just sit back in his luxury box and enjoy, we'd be all set.
But ultimately we've had GMs (and one pushy coach) who've been part of some bad drafting over the years, as well as a string of bad luck (would Stewart have become a bust if he weren't injured two seasons ago? He seemed set to stick with the Panthers after being called up after all) and a lack of a development system. So there's at least room for optimism.
It'll be a big step forward if the Panthers aren't one of the league leaders in man-games lost this season.
I also think the panthers have lead the league in excuses for not making the playoffs the last 8 seasons.
I also think the panthers have lead the league in excuses for not making the playoffs the last 8 seasons.
I'm not part of the team, and the man-games lost are a good excuse, when coupled with the early bad management decisions that destroyed what little organizational depth the team ever bothered to build.
You think the team we had last year was a playoff team with 6 regulars missing from the roster at one point, and several regulars gone for the entire season, and with the team's minor league callups being just that - minor leaguers who got called up to fill big league slots? I mean, especially when the team captain and leading scorer basically quit on the team from February on.
Your expectations are too high - you can hold Cohen's feet to the fire over the results the past couple of seasons...even Keenan - probably not Dudley so much since he never got a chance to have his own plan in place. You can even blame Huizenga for putting out the edict to Bryan Murray and his successors that payroll had to be brought down to a minimal amount while he tried to sell the team, a process that took over 4 years if I recall. But then changed tack and said go ahead and get the big marquis star to try to attract interest...but then went back again and said get rid of all the other better players on the team in order to trim payroll again for a sale.
This team got screwed big time by previous ownership, and it only was exacerbated by Cohen's overconfidence that he could learn how to run a pro-sports franchise hands-on. But as long as he's gone to hands-off mode and allows the team to spend the money needed to win (which is still in question) then - if fans have a little more patience left in their pinky toes - this team will be able to turn around and become a perennial playoff contender at the least.
I'm not part of the team, and the man-games lost are a good excuse, when coupled with the early bad management decisions that destroyed what little organizational depth the team ever bothered to build.
You think the team we had last year was a playoff team with 6 regulars missing from the roster at one point, and several regulars gone for the entire season, and with the team's minor league callups being just that - minor leaguers who got called up to fill big league slots? I mean, especially when the team captain and leading scorer basically quit on the team from February on.
Your expectations are too high - you can hold Cohen's feet to the fire over the results the past couple of seasons...even Keenan - probably not Dudley so much since he never got a chance to have his own plan in place. You can even blame Huizenga for putting out the edict to Bryan Murray and his successors that payroll had to be brought down to a minimal amount while he tried to sell the team, a process that took over 4 years if I recall. But then changed tack and said go ahead and get the big marquis star to try to attract interest...but then went back again and said get rid of all the other better players on the team in order to trim payroll again for a sale.
This team got screwed big time by previous ownership, and it only was exacerbated by Cohen's overconfidence that he could learn how to run a pro-sports franchise hands-on. But as long as he's gone to hands-off mode and allows the team to spend the money needed to win (which is still in question) then - if fans have a little more patience left in their pinky toes - this team will be able to turn around and become a perennial playoff contender at the least.
I've feel like I've been as patient as anyone around here, but that patience is starting to wear thin.
However, I'll still be a fan of this team regardless. We could never make the playoffs again and I'd still cheer for them, but I just don't think I am going to be as positive and kind about my thoughts of the team if this current pace continues.
I know nobody knows how a player will turn out. I just wanted to remind everyone how another small detail like that(possibly drafting that one scorer instead of drafting a bust) has also contributed to us continueing to miss the playoffs.
That's why it's important to have good scouts. Anyone can read ISS or CSB rankings and pick the best player available off that list when they're on the board. IMO we've done well the last two drafts and I'm encouraged by that. That's why we've sucked for so long. We drafted very poorly from around 99-02, and when we went into the tank in 00-01, we thus didn't have anything to draw out of the prospect pool, and we had to wait years until guys like Weiss, Bouw, and Horton developed before we even became semi-competitive.
That's why it's important to have good scouts. Anyone can read ISS or CSB rankings and pick the best player available off that list when they're on the board. IMO we've done well the last two drafts and I'm encouraged by that. That's why we've sucked for so long. We drafted very poorly from around 99-02, and when we went into the tank in 00-01, we thus didn't have anything to draw out of the prospect pool, and we had to wait years until guys like Weiss, Bouw, and Horton developed before we even became semi-competitive.
Don't you think it's unfortunate that the years we got high picks, there were no players like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane, Stamkos, etc?
The Pens are the luckiest team in the world because they sucked and got Crosby/Malkin out of it.
I mean, I like Bouw/Weiss/Horton but that's nothing like the players listed above.
Don't you think it's unfortunate that the years we got high picks, there were no players like Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Toews, Kane, Stamkos, etc?
The Pens are the luckiest team in the world because they sucked and got Crosby/Malkin out of it.
I mean, I like Bouw/Weiss/Horton but that's nothing like the players listed above.
Yeah, actually I'd agree with that as well. There's not just one reason that we've sucked for so long, and I didn't mean to suggest there was, it's a combination of lots of different things. Bad drafting, bad luck, bad management, bad player development, bad ownership, etc. etc. Pretty much anything you can think of, we've screwed it up.
''Anthony seems to have a better understanding of where he's at,'' Martin said. "He controls his own destiny. He's moving down here, has a professional trainer he works with every day. He knows this is a key season for him.
"He needs to be in the best shape of his career. He needs to use the lessons he's learned the past three years and be the best he can be.''
While most fans are down on Anthony Stewart, Birch said the fourth-year winger has rededicated himself to hockey and is already working out at the Panthers’ facility in suburban Miami.
There's just one flaw with your theory: back in 2003, nobody knew any of that. No one knew Stewart would be on the verge of being a bust by the end of the 2007-2008 season - after all, he looked like a character guy who had offensive upside and was a solid powerforward pick. And remember, Dudley picked him because Keenan wanted him. Same with Horton. None of those others are Keenan types.
Was Dudley really such a wimp? I thought he was a man who took the player he wanted himself, after all, he had a reputation to preserve.....
Was Dudley really such a wimp? I thought he was a man who took the player he wanted himself, after all, he had a reputation to preserve.....
Keenan had complained publically about the lack of physicality on the roster - Dudley didn't hide that he'd made the picks of Horton and Stewart for Keenan, and I'm sure Keenan had input on that decision as such. And Keenan couldn't hide his glee at the draft when the two had been picked.
Keenan had complained publically about the lack of physicality on the roster - Dudley didn't hide that he'd made the picks of Horton and Stewart for Keenan, and I'm sure Keenan had input on that decision as such. And Keenan couldn't hide his glee at the draft when the two had been picked.
Didn't see Keenan's face then, but can imagine it all too well. History books have it as Dudley pick(s) though. It is not a pleasant place to be in, when you are supposed to be the supervisor of someone who runs over you. And does it in public too.
Didn't see Keenan's face then, but can imagine it all too well. History books have it as Dudley pick(s) though. It is not a pleasant place to be in, when you are supposed to be the supervisor of someone who runs over you. And does it in public too.
Well, you see, that was the worst part - Dudley wasn't Keenan's supervisor. The arrangement was set up that both reported directly to Cohen. One of the most assinine moves ever in a sports organization. Everyone here knew it was doomed to fail, and it did - big time.
Well, you see, that was the worst part - Dudley wasn't Keenan's supervisor. The arrangement was set up that both reported directly to Cohen. One of the most assinine moves ever in a sports organization. Everyone here knew it was doomed to fail, and it did - big time.
Oh yes, now I remember. It does take some of the burden off Dudley's shoulders. Still, it must have been a miserable time in Dudley's life.
