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Dubinsky/Dawes/Staal are very underrated

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Old
07-09-2008, 01:49 PM
  #76
HockeyBasedNYC
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Dubinsky had a stellar first year, and got into some hot stretches. If he can duplicate that in his sophomore season, then i would say he is underrated. As of right now, he has overachieved IMO, a credit to him and the season he had. He is a solid player but i wouldnt say for a second he is underrated.

He won the MVP for the young stars game, he was playing with Jagr and got plenty of accolades to go along with it. He is noticed. His game tailed off a bit towards the end of the year, but like i said, lets see him do it the second time around with new linemates before we crown this guy the next coming of Messier. I love the kid. His work ethic is what got him here. But by no means is he underrated.


Dawes isnt either. He might be a tad overrated. He's hung in there and took his lumps. Was sent down and up and then down and up again. The kid persevered just like Dubi, Cally and Prucha have in their tenures here. The hard work and effort is what these kids all have in common and thats whats getting them here. Its not like they are underrated world class talent. They've made the most of their shot. thats whats encouraging about these players the Rangers have, Girardi included.

Let's talk about the kids game for a second... slippery skater, still learning how to play along the boards at the NHL level. He has little size but he plays big. Not explosively fast by any means, but good hockey sense, yes and a very dangerous shot. The one thing i would say is underrated about Dawes is his passing. He impressed the hell out of me last season on a few occasions with some very precise passes to set up Drury for goals. I'd love to see them back together, because i feel they work very well together and began to really recognize each other out there towards the end of last season. But again, the kid makes the best of what tools he has, and despite his progression in the area, he still needs to tighten up his defensive zone play and play away from the puck.

Staal - if theres one guy you want to say is underrated its him. I know some of us here might not think that. But this kids for real if you play close attention to his play. Its not easy to jump from Juniors to the NHL, and before long this kid went straight to the first pair - and on DEFENSE. Thats almost unheard of in the NHL. He makes subtle plays that go unnoticed during the game. Hes incredibly shifty for a defensman. He can skate, pass and shoot. He can hit, hard. He's got one of the best sticks in the conference.

But the thing that impresses me the most about this kid is his head. He did a fantastic job of playing within himself last season. He knew his boundaries and to tread lightly the first 20 or so games and not do so much. He took the lessons he learned each game and APPLIED them. He had a stellar career in juniors and put up some very good numbers offensively, but you didnt see him try and rush that into his game. Hes only going to get better in that regard and i believe that. For a young kid, he also has a quiet, anchoring leadership about him - and his solid upbringing and character are intangibles you cannot ignore. Take that all into account and i think this kid is going to have a fantastic career, God willing.

So yeah, we need these guys to show up - they are very important to next season. But i dont think a majority of the fans or the team thinks these guys are underrated by any means.


Last edited by HockeyBasedNYC: 07-09-2008 at 01:54 PM.
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07-09-2008, 02:03 PM
  #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i think dubi is a good player, but saying jagr didnt help his point totals is proposterous.....will dubi be a good player?.....i think so.....will he put up 90 points as some are saying?.....i highly doubt it
Agree.

But Dubinsky has a way of silencing his critics, hes got that in his game big time, so i wouldnt be surprised if he did at one point.

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07-09-2008, 02:05 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Agree.

But Dubinsky has a way of silencing his critics, hes got that in his game big time, so i wouldnt be surprised if he did at one point.
he has that great tenacity and fire w/in him.

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07-09-2008, 07:16 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZenBaja View Post
Did you forget last season already? Dubi and Jagr meshed well in the early season, then were split up. When they were split, Dubi kept posting nice numbers, but Jagr went into a big slump. It wasn't until they were reunited that Jagr started going. So Dubi got Jagr going, not the other way around. -Z
I never really like to use these, but this one just needs it.


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07-09-2008, 09:48 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
he's 21 years old and has promise up the middle. There's more to playing center than just being a great setup guy. Keep him at center. I'm really against moving guys out of position. It doesn't always work. And in couple years we'll all be saying how this team needs size down the middle - do we then move him back?
In general, I tend to agree with you. When I posted moving him to the wing on line 1, there were three reasons it came to mind:
  1. We are small up front on the top two lines, and I'd like to see Dubinsky in that mix without moving Drury or Gomez from their natural positions
  2. I think Dubinsky has the type of work ethic and passion that he'd work to make it work
  3. If it were Zherdev, Gomez, Dubinsky on line 1 ... I am envisioning more of a skating, free-flowing line that isn't necessarily locked into position
Dubinsky could also stay at C, and probably will. But if Gomez/Drury are up the middle, they are probably on the top two lines and our top two lines are smallish. I felt Dubinsky could add some size and that his style would mesh well with Gomez and Zherdev without detracting from the line.

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07-09-2008, 10:28 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
You're not far off...once Straka was moved up to that line Dubi started deferring more to Jagr and Straka. Personally, I'd like to see Drury moved to LW, and Dubi be the 2nd line center. I also think Fritsche is going to surprise a lot of poeple.
moving Drury to LW is not very smart considering he is our best center in the faceoff department

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07-09-2008, 10:43 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Dante76 View Post
moving Drury to LW is not very smart considering he is our best center in the faceoff department
He'd still take faceoffs on the PK, the PP, and, becomes the player most likely to take faceoffs on important defensive zone draws. Plus, both Dubinsky and Gomez were also very good on faceoffs. This is a very exaggerated complaint about moving Drury to LW.

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07-09-2008, 10:55 PM
  #83
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Dubi has and will be improving. Hey he scored a hat trick in the the world torney.

Dawes is getting better as well, one of the best shoot out guys.

Staal was our best defenseman throughout the end of the year.

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07-09-2008, 11:38 PM
  #84
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Where is this coming from? Third thread I read this in now. So now all of a sudden Brandon Dubinsky is better than Jagr and without Duby Jagr woulda go 40 points last year. Is is October yet?

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07-10-2008, 09:23 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I never really like to use these, but this one just needs it.

Hey that's uncalled for. Just go back and review the game stats, since everyone seems to have forgotten the season already. Look at what Dubi did without Jagr, once that line got disbanded versus what Jagr was doing.

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07-12-2008, 11:49 AM
  #86
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You know, with the recent buzz that Vermette has asked to be traded and various posters laughing at some of the offers that people threw out... it occurs to me that it might be time to revisit this thread. I wonder if we do in fact underrate our prospects. Especially ones that were drafted in the later rounds. Consider the following comparison (sorry - if I could've just posted the stats in here, I would've, but I can't figure out how to copy/paste a spreadsheet like Kodiak did in the Salary Cap thread):

Player comparison.xls

Look at how each of the three players has performed vis-a-vis his age and the league he was in. Pretty much dead-on development curves.

Now, I get that in watching them play, Vermette does appear to have more top-end goal scoring talent (which is why I would love to have him) and he has more size than either of the players against whom I've juxtaposed him. But the point is... is a trade centered around say Callahan/Dawes PLUS a prospect PLUS a pick (leaving aside for the moment that they really probably want an NHL-ready Dman) really that laughable as compensation for a disgruntled Vermette...? I don't think so. Especially since we would then have to sign Vermette long-term.


Last edited by BrooklynRangersFan: 07-12-2008 at 11:14 PM.
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07-12-2008, 03:37 PM
  #87
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i would give callahan, korpikoski, potter and a 3rd for vermette in a second....i would like to hold onto dawes

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07-12-2008, 04:16 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
i would give callahan, korpikoski, potter and a 3rd for vermette in a second....i would like to hold onto dawes
I give up Dawes over Korpikoski in a heartbeat. Korpikoski is a better fit to play LW in this system than Dawes. He's a more versatile player. And, if your getting a top six player in Vermette, (which I don't think is happening), I don't see the need to keep Dawes, a player who can only play in the top six, (if the Rangers want him to be successful).

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07-12-2008, 08:51 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
I give up Dawes over Korpikoski in a heartbeat. Korpikoski is a better fit to play LW in this system than Dawes. He's a more versatile player. And, if your getting a top six player in Vermette, (which I don't think is happening), I don't see the need to keep Dawes, a player who can only play in the top six, (if the Rangers want him to be successful).
i just feel like all the rangers have are two-way players...wouldnt it be nice to keep a player whose specialty is offense?

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07-12-2008, 08:57 PM
  #90
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Dawes- not underated
Dubinsky- Overated
Staal- Underated

I didnt feel like reading any posts, but this is how i feel.*


*note this is only counting HF.

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07-12-2008, 09:54 PM
  #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
I give up Dawes over Korpikoski in a heartbeat. Korpikoski is a better fit to play LW in this system than Dawes. He's a more versatile player. And, if your getting a top six player in Vermette, (which I don't think is happening), I don't see the need to keep Dawes, a player who can only play in the top six, (if the Rangers want him to be successful).
Exactly, you gotta be crazy to trade Korpikoski, he averages 1 goal every 2 minutes of ice time in the NHL.

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07-12-2008, 11:11 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
You know, with the recent buzz that Vermette has asked to be traded and various posters laughing at some of the offers that people threw out... it occurs to me that it might be time to revisit this thread. I wonder if we do in fact underrate our prospects. Especially ones that were drafted in the later rounds. Consider the following comparison (sorry - if I could've just posted in here, I would've but can't figure out how to copy/paste a spreadsheet like Kodiak did in the Salary Cap thread):

Attachment 28800

Look at how each of the three players has performed vis-a-vis his age and the league he was in. Pretty much dead-on development curves.

Now, I get that in watching them play, Vermette does appear to have more top-end goal scoring talent (which is why I would love to have him) and he has more size than either of the players against whom I've juxtaposed him. But the point is... is a trade centered around say Callahan/Dawes PLUS a prospect PLUS a pick (leaving aside for the moment that they really probably want an NHL-ready Dman) really that laughable as compensation for a disgruntled Vermette...? I don't think so. Especially since we would then have to sign Vermette long-term.
If you really want to get unreasonably excited over a player, compare Dawes' professional career to that of Marty St Louis. They both started out quite similarly, not to mention they share similar size attributes. St Louis also was never drafted and started his career as a free agent while Dawes was a 5th round pick.

Dawes doesn't quite have the defensive abilities that Marty has, but he's a better shooter IMO.

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07-12-2008, 11:15 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If you really want to get unreasonably excited over a player, compare Dawes' professional career to that of Marty St Louis. They both started out quite similarly, not to mention they share similar size attributes. Obviously St Louis was highly touted coming out of college and probably has more overall talent than Dawes, but the similarities are pretty interesting.
Isn't that the point of being a HF poster?

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07-12-2008, 11:20 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
You know, with the recent buzz that Vermette has asked to be traded and various posters laughing at some of the offers that people threw out... it occurs to me that it might be time to revisit this thread. I wonder if we do in fact underrate our prospects. Especially ones that were drafted in the later rounds. Consider the following comparison (sorry - if I could've just posted the stats in here, I would've, but I can't figure out how to copy/paste a spreadsheet like Kodiak did in the Salary Cap thread):

Attachment 28800

Look at how each of the three players has performed vis-a-vis his age and the league he was in. Pretty much dead-on development curves.

Now, I get that in watching them play, Vermette does appear to have more top-end goal scoring talent (which is why I would love to have him) and he has more size than either of the players against whom I've juxtaposed him. But the point is... is a trade centered around say Callahan/Dawes PLUS a prospect PLUS a pick (leaving aside for the moment that they really probably want an NHL-ready Dman) really that laughable as compensation for a disgruntled Vermette...? I don't think so. Especially since we would then have to sign Vermette long-term.

That is very interesting to say the least. Not only do I agree with your point that Dawes/Cally plus pick should be enough, you've pretty much illustrated it with the spread sheet you provided.

Excellent post bro. Nice to see someone on this board who knows how to make a point

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07-12-2008, 11:36 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Isn't that the point of being a HF poster?
Haha, I try not to get my hopes up too high. I like being surprised.

I do think Dawes is going to be a fixture on our top-six for a while though. He's shown good chemistry with Gomez -- probably reminds Gomer of Gionta -- and is a hard worker. I imagine he'll beat out Prucha for a spot in the top-six and will pot 25 goals this year.

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07-12-2008, 11:38 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Haha, I try not to get my hopes up too high. I like being surprised.

I do think Dawes is going to be a fixture on our top-six for a while though. He's shown good chemistry with Gomez -- probably reminds Gomer of Gionta -- and is a hard worker. I imagine he'll beat out Prucha for a spot in the top-six and will pot 25 goals this year.
Hopefully!

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07-13-2008, 12:20 AM
  #97
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i really like all of these players....i just dont know if dubinsky AND dawes will be around for more than a couple more years....with younger, cheaper players coming up, who maybe more skilled in their positions they may be pushed down the depth charts or traded......(not saying i want it to happen but just looking at the math)

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07-13-2008, 12:35 AM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Haha, I try not to get my hopes up too high. I like being surprised.

I do think Dawes is going to be a fixture on our top-six for a while though. He's shown good chemistry with Gomez -- probably reminds Gomer of Gionta -- and is a hard worker. I imagine he'll beat out Prucha for a spot in the top-six and will pot 25 goals this year.
Not a stretch at all.

he had 14 in 61 games last year which prorates to about 19 goals. With more ice time and a year under his belt, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dawes pushing 30.

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07-13-2008, 12:36 AM
  #99
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Not a stretch at all.

he had 14 in 61 games last year which prorates to about 19 goals. With more ice time and a year under his belt, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dawes pushing 30.
that'd be nice. Dawes reminds me of Fleury more than St. Louis...

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07-13-2008, 12:47 AM
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Originally Posted by BubblegumGang184434 View Post
that'd be nice. Dawes reminds me of Fleury more than St. Louis...
He reminds me more of Mark Recchi than either of them.

I think Recchi's post 93-94 goal totals are what you can expect from Dawes over his career - mostly high 20's with a few 30 goal years sprinkled in here and there. Dawes will never post the amount of Assists that Recchi did though.

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