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07-10-2008, 10:32 AM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Well, how else would you characterize it?



I wouldn't say there is something untrue about what's written there, but there's a lot of silly questions asked and equally harsh things said about current Ranger players. I'm not sure how "bashing" Drury, Gomez and Renney is better or different than "bashing" Jagr and Avery, since that's the axe they've expressed an interest in grinding.

I would also add that the quality of writing certainly calls into question the quality of the writer. A piece that lacks the punctuation that any 5th grader should have command of significantly detracts from the credibility of the content.



Does it matter? What came off the end of the pen that day was, for the first time in my memory, something I could agree with. I'm as shocked as you are.
Good post, Melrose - I agree with everything you say.

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07-10-2008, 10:37 AM
  #27
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Love to see Fischler do a complete flip flop from just 2 short weeks ago when he was touting the returns of Jagr and Avery.

Then again, thats nothing new for this shill. I grew up watching him bash the Rangers and speaking wonderfully about the Devils and Islanders (when he was employed by them, of course). Now that Rangers management is signing his paychecks, he'll bleed that blue baby!

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07-10-2008, 10:39 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
While there's probably a million answers, I'll give you 2.
  1. contract length
  2. cap hit
Why as hockey fan do I have to care about those two things? I've been asking that many times and everyone who cared to reply would say that that should be obvious. Well, it is not. I believe I should not get into GM cooking, but have all rights to keep him accountable for the end result. The end result is Bardin got Jagr and Dallas got Avery.

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07-10-2008, 10:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Why as hockey fan do I have to care about those two things? I've been asking that many times and everyone who cared to reply would say that that should be obvious. Well, it is not. I believe I should not get into GM cooking, but have all rights to keep him accountable for the end result. The end result is Bardin got Jagr and Dallas got Avery.
Contract length and cap hit are two of the most important things to consider during the UFA period in this salary cap era.

Avery's massive overpayment would have handcuffed this team for the next 4 years.

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07-10-2008, 10:47 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Contract length and cap hit are two of the most important things to consider during the UFA period in this salary cap era.

Avery's massive overpayment would have handcuffed this team for the next 4 years.
Okay, why is that different for Dallas? What are the implications of going over the cap limit?

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07-10-2008, 10:49 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Okay, why is that different for Dallas?
Dallas doesn't have $31M locked up in 5 players. Also, Dallas hasn't yet endured the Sean Avery detriment.

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07-10-2008, 10:55 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Okay, why is that different for Dallas? What are the implications of going over the cap limit?
You can't do it - period.

In the offseason you're given a little extra leeway (10% above the cap) in order to allow you some maneuvering room, but once the season starts, you have to be in line.

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07-10-2008, 10:57 AM
  #33
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Fischler's a tool.

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07-10-2008, 10:58 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Okay, why is that different for Dallas? What are the implications of going over the cap limit?
Different team, different philosophies, different needs.

NYR had the money to spend, but chose to pay UFA market value on defense instead of at forward.

Implications for going over the limit are dead cap space the following year. Implications for giving multi-year deals to players over 35, in Jagr's case, would be applying that cap hit over the term of the contract even if the player cannot fulfill it.

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07-10-2008, 11:03 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
Dallas doesn't have $31M locked up in 5 players. Also, Dallas hasn't yet endured the Sean Avery detriment.
I don't know about detriment. Sather is the reason we are locked in. He screwed up with Drury/ Gomez signing last summer. Now we lose Jagr and Avery because of that and he sends Fischler to bark on those two players who were the reason for Ranger success in last two seasons. Next thing he would blame Renney for not being able to accommodate his new assets and so on.

I agree that cap hits and contracts should be important to GM. My question was why it should be important to me as a fan.

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07-10-2008, 11:21 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
I agree that cap hits and contracts should be important to GM. My question was why it should be important to me as a fan.
I guess the only answer is that it ultimately dictates the product you're a fan of. Do you want the best product you can get within a certain budget, or do you just want a team with a bunch of players you admire?

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07-10-2008, 11:35 AM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I guess the only answer is that it ultimately dictates the product you're a fan of. Do you want the best product you can get within a certain budget, or do you just want a team with a bunch of players you admire?
so you think the rangers are better? they replaced jagr straka avery shanny with zherdev naslund and fritsche...where is the improvement?

also.....

your post about jess rubensteins grammer doesn't answer any of the questions he had about fischlers blog post...

if u didn't agree with fischler in the past wouldn't that make you question his views now?

I understand everybody doesn't agree and that what makes this so much fun but fischler is an idiot...he has been relevent in 20 years...two weeks ago he was praising jagr and avery now they are wrong? this is an msg hit piece backed by the same people(dolan and sather) that you have bashed time and time again for how they have run this team..

the rangers aren't better now then they were at the end of the season...they are up against the cap and still have major holes to fill...for any rangers fan to bash jagr is crazy imo..the guy never missed a game in 3 years here...he never pouted...he played hard...worked with the youth...what else do u want from him? I'm not sure you'd be able to get anything more from him

stan fiscler is a joke...a hack...a no nothing...he brings the broadcasts down but again now he's smart? I don't think so but to each his own...

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07-10-2008, 11:39 AM
  #38
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SoS....

IMO jagr+avery+shanny+straka(all one year older)+malik+backman+tyutin<redden+zherdev+naslund +kalinin+fritsche

the team gets faster, younger and better IMO.....i think it might be just me, as i loved watchung the habs play last season with their up tempo style, but i want to see action and i think thats where they are going with it

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07-10-2008, 11:40 AM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I guess the only answer is that it ultimately dictates the product you're a fan of. Do you want the best product you can get within a certain budget, or do you just want a team with a bunch of players you admire?
THIS is the best the rangers could do? that's pretty sad imo...

we have a lineup with more question marks then the riddler and that's somehow a good thing?

no cap room and a team that looks headed straight for the lottery...a coach that wants to change the style 2 years to late and a gm on his third rebuild in 8 years...

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07-10-2008, 11:58 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I guess the only answer is that it ultimately dictates the product you're a fan of. Do you want the best product you can get within a certain budget, or do you just want a team with a bunch of players you admire?
The fact you intentionally made the second option less attractive by calling it "bunch of players you admire" suggests that you also realize it may be the good idea, not just myself.

While I do admire Jagr, I do not treat Avery same way. In his skill level he is equal to Gomez which is somewhat above average, but miles away from Jagr even in twilight of his career.
Bottom line is I am a fan of 2005-2008 Rangers. Sather killed that team for the reason still unknown to me. I do not see improvements based on our roster, unless Zherdev will have a monster year and Naslund will adopt to East. I do not find a reasonable explanation to it. Now when Fischler comes with unreasonable one it makes me to believe there isn't any.

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07-10-2008, 12:14 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
THIS is the best the rangers could do? that's pretty sad imo...

we have a lineup with more question marks then the riddler and that's somehow a good thing?

no cap room and a team that looks headed straight for the lottery...a coach that wants to change the style 2 years to late and a gm on his third rebuild in 8 years...
This is completely ridiculous. I've sat around and endured/enjoyed your pessimism over the last couple of weeks, and I have to admit, I've even agreed with you on a couple of occasions. But, I am willing to bet you ANYTHING, literally, that the Rangers don't finish in the lottery next season. If you want to tell me the team is going to be worse this year than last, fine, I can buy that. But if you honestly believe that a team anchored by Lundqvist, our insanely deep blueline and two very good two-way centers will finish in the bottom 5 of the league, you've lost all credibility as far as I'm concerned.

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07-10-2008, 12:16 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
so you think the rangers are better?
Better than they would have been if you doubled Avery's salary, gave Jagr $2M more than he got last year and still had to find a way to field a competitive roster under the cap. Better today? Arguable. Better in the long run? Absolutely!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
your post about jess rubensteins grammer doesn't answer any of the questions he had about fischlers blog post...
I wouldn't have any idea how to answer those questions or know if the assumptions he's making are true or not. Neither would you, but be my guest if you want to take a few stabs at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
if u didn't agree with fischler in the past wouldn't that make you question his views now?
You make it sound like I'm suddenly a Maven convert, spreading his word like it's gospel because he expressed an opinion that I already held long before this article was written. Agreeing with 1000 words printed on a page is hardly an endorsement of someone's overall mindset despite your efforts to make it one.

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07-10-2008, 12:18 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
The fact you intentionally made the second option less attractive by calling it "bunch of players you admire" suggests that you also realize it may be the good idea, not just myself.

While I do admire Jagr, I do not treat Avery same way. In his skill level he is equal to Gomez which is somewhat above average, but miles away from Jagr even in twilight of his career.
Bottom line is I am a fan of 2005-2008 Rangers. Sather killed that team for the reason still unknown to me. I do not see improvements based on our roster, unless Zherdev will have a monster year and Naslund will adopt to East. I do not find a reasonable explanation to it. Now when Fischler comes with unreasonable one it makes me to believe there isn't any.
What about the 1998-2004 Rangers? What about the 1992-1997 Rangers and so on and so forth? If you're a new fan thats looking to jump ship because your favorite players are gone, don't let the door hit you on the way out. If you've been supporting the team (or any team for that matter) for several seasons, you should know that change in modern sports is inevitable. You're either a Rangers fan or an Avery/Jagr fan.

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07-10-2008, 12:41 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
The fact you intentionally made the second option less attractive by calling it "bunch of players you admire" suggests that you also realize it may be the good idea, not just myself.
Bottom line for me is how the team performs, not which names are on the backs of the sweaters.

These guys weren't willing to agree to Sather's terms, so I don't see any other choice for him but to go in a different direction. As I said to SOS, by overpaying to keep the existing team intact, I don't see how you guarantee anything but status quo, which we already know was not good enough.

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07-10-2008, 12:55 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
Bottom line for me is how the team performs, not which names are on the backs of the sweaters.
No one ever argued that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
These guys weren't willing to agree to Sather's terms, so I don't see any other choice for him but to go in a different direction.
Well, this is NOT beyond any argument. What exactly makes you think that Sather's demands were dictated by the welfare of the Rangers, not by his ego, attempt to cover his mistakes or just dislike of particular agent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
I don't see how you guarantee anything but status quo, which we already know was not good enough.
Not good enough? It was good. Whether it was enough is a matter of opinion. In any case NOT GOOD ENOUGH is better then NO GOOD. We will suck royally next season, mark my words.

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07-10-2008, 01:12 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Wario Lemieux View Post
What about the 1998-2004 Rangers?
What about them? They had a better forwards in EVERY POSITION, except for Blair Betts. Defense? Two words: Brian Leetch. Wade who?
Of cause they didn't have Lundqvist kind of G, but this year team ain't making playoffs same way as them, plus only G-d knows what would have happen should Blackburn not hurt himself.

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07-10-2008, 01:21 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What about them? They had a better forwards in EVERY POSITION, except for Blair Betts. Defense? Two words: Brian Leetch. Wade who?
Of cause they didn't have Lundqvist kind of G, but this year team ain't making playoffs same way as them, plus only G-d knows what would have happen should Blackburn not hurt himself.
3 words: Declining Brian Leetch, and the rest of the defense corp during those years was nothing short of a disaster...same goes for the revolving door of goaltenders.

This years team has a very above average defense and an all-world goaltender. Anything can happen this those two ingrediants.

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07-10-2008, 01:25 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What exactly makes you think that Sather's demands were dictated by the welfare of the Rangers, not by his ego, attempt to cover his mistakes or just dislike of particular agent?
In Jagr's case, the reality of the CBA's guidelines for multi-year contracts to players over the age of 35.

In Avery's case, I would like to think we can all agree that $15M/4 yr. is a LOT for Sean Avery, but you could very well be right about egos, attitudes and agents.

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We will suck royally next season, mark my words.
I'm definitely prepared to guess at how the new team may or may not come together, but yours is duly noted.

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Old
07-10-2008, 01:25 PM
  #49
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I agree that this team is much less predictable then before because of the acquisitions made, BUT I still think bringing Jagr back would not have hurt the team. I think bringing in a veteran like Naslund who isnt some Czech buddy of Jags, would not look to pass to him all the time. And then you got the skillful Zherdev now who can do some nasty things with the puck.

I just feel Jagr shouldve been brought back and this team would still be going in the same direction right now bc Straka and Nylander are now gone, and youve acquired that sniper we've been searching for in Zherdev to help take the load off Jags.

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07-10-2008, 01:36 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
What about them? They had a better forwards in EVERY POSITION, except for Blair Betts. Defense? Two words: Brian Leetch. Wade who?
Of cause they didn't have Lundqvist kind of G, but this year team ain't making playoffs same way as them, plus only G-d knows what would have happen should Blackburn not hurt himself.
The point wasn't to compare this years team to those from the dark years. I was simply trying to say that the team you claimed to be a fan of (2005-2008) was completely different personnel-wise than the teams of the past, just like this year's team is going to be different than the post-lockout Rangers.

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