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The Irony of the Rangers vs Devils offseason directions...

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07-10-2008, 04:22 PM
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The Irony of the Rangers vs Devils offseason directions...

Now that most of the dust has settled from the UFA signing Frenzy I just was thinking just how ironic it is to see the Rangers and Devils choosing such different paths with their recent management decisions.

Decisions that left us with the youngest team in the division as well as the entire eastern conference if I read it correctly at just over 27yrs old where as the Devils are over 3 yrs older on average at over 30+yrs average age.

What we are seeing it almost a total role reversal of the late '90's--early'00's as far as personel decisions and overall philosophy.

While we have seen Slats take tremendous risk of icing possibly a less effective team in the shorterm he is doing the whole big picture thing that has it's eye on icing a team that will be better off longterm of icing a topend team that can compete yr in and yr out.

Jagr is still an elite player as shown by him being the best player hands down for the first 2 rds, especially when he owned Brodeur and the Devils who simply had no answer for him.

But now that it is coming out that he wanted 3 yrs from the Rangers it certainly makes it easier to understand that the Rangers wanted to move on because a commitment to Jagr has the well known ripple-effects on the makeup of personel on the rest of the team as well as dictating style to a degree.

Same goes with Avery who was no doubt a asset and catalyst for the NYR's but Slats absolutely made the right move in not hadcuffing himself with a 4 yr deal at 15.5 million that included a NMC clause.

Same for Shanny.

And the same for not giving Nylander 5 million per until he's almost 40 was the right move last yr.

All moves that may and probrably will hurt shorterm but in the longrun all moves that are much more bigpicture oriented and took balls to follow through with.

Slats has done a great job since the lockout of stocking the prospect pool with tremendous depth and top prospects at each position with character being at the forefront when making the selections of youngsters.

We've brought along kids each and every yr and this process will be implemented with even greater regularity and success then the last 3 yrs and that is a great thing.

All of the signings we've made are commitments to guys in their PRIME yrs such as Gomez last yr at 27, Drury at 30, Lundquist at 25, Redden at 31.

For all the attempted mocking from Devil fans about these deals each one of them will be done with their 5-6-7 yr deals with them being younger then what Rolston is prior to even STARTING his 4 yr deal with the exception of Redden.(but more on this later)

These 4 help for the core and in that care we have a franchise goalie who has not even entered his prime, a top playmaking/puckcarrying center who makes his wingers better, a top 2 way center who oouzes leadership as well as clutch play in the most critical of moments and lastly a guy who along with Staal forms a legit top pairing that brings a great blend of everything inculding puckmovement for yrs to come.

Rounding out the lineup are character young players who bring great value with the likes of goalscorers like Dawes/Prucha, energy-2 way guys in Dubinsky-Callahan-Fritche-Sjostrom and a 10g-30pt 2 way 24 yrd old dman in Girardi.

On top of those youngsters we have one of the best prospect pools that Slats has done a great job of holding onto and letting develop as opposed to going for any tempting quick fixes.

Now for the UFA's-

Naslund was a great signing when all factors are considered.

2 yrs-8 million for a creative, fast, skilled player who obviously brings leadership having been a multi-yr captain of his team who still put up 25 goals and 60 pts on the most conservative system team in the west after having 3 or 4 yrs in a row of 40+goals and 80+pts and who has been a 3 time all NHL First team who plays either wing.

Redden was the 2nd most coveted dman available and is a 31 yr old puckmover who has logged tons of minutes and gained loads of experience with plenty of playoff games over the yrs.

He is a legit first pair dman who along with Staal with makeup a top end 1st unit.

What's funny is seeing all the Devil fans call for this guy and a bunch actually have him in their avatars and beg for Lou to sign him (as if Lou can convince any top UFA's to come)but once he signs with us he suddenly sucks and it was a bad deal!

Too funny to see them admit they wanted them "but only for 2 or 3 yrs at 4 million per"!!! as if they seriously thought that was what his market worth was or to make it seem like drastic overpayment.

Same with Roszival, probrably the 3rd most sought after UFA dman this summer who once again chose the Rangers over all the other suitors.

4yrs at 5 million per for a guy who puts up 10+goals and 40 pts and is 29yrs old is a solid signing over the life of the deal.

The Zherdev deal was an unbelievable deal and if Lou's koolaid drinkers saw him pull off a deal to land a 23 yr old who has this kids skills and potential they'd be bowing down before him even more so then they patheticly do now.

The kid has all-world skill and talent and is under contract for 2.5 million.

And the Mara signing as our 5th dman just goes to show that the Rangers, unlike the Devils is amoung the top 2 or 3 destinations for UFA's who will take much less favorable terms to sign on.

1 yr at 1.9 for a 28 yr old Mara as opposed to the hilarious 2.9 per for FOUR YEARS for a 32 yr old Salvador!!!

Great job Lou!

As for the Rolston signing, I like the guy and he is a good 2nd tier player who is well rounded but 5 million per until he's 40?!?!?

If the Rangers had done this you wouldn't hear the end of it from Devil fans but since they were forced to overpay bigtime in lenght in order to entice Rolston all is well.

In fact you guys were tripping over yourselves to get in line to kiss Lou's ring offering homage!

This was the same exact deal the Caps had to offer to get Nylander to come because they knew they had no choice but to overpay because neither place is a destination of choice amoung UFA's with NJ being listed as the 2nd least likely place a NHL would like to sign in a poll of 300 NHL players, no small sample size by any stretch!

Again 5 million per for 4 yrs for a guy who will be closing in on FORTY by the end of the deal!

And you guys have the balls to try and rip the Naslund signing for 2 yrs and 1 million per less while he is even a yr younger?!?!?!

And for a fanbase that bashes us for holding onto Cup winning players too long or bringing them back for encore how about Lou bringing back Holik, the almost 38 yr old who you guys vowed would never be invited back into the Devil "family" by Lou?

You know who signs players who are closer to 40 as opposed to 30...teams that can't entice players at or near their primes and that is also why Lou was kicking the tires on an ancient Sergei Federov...but at least you got the younger Fed-Fed to buck the trend you were on!

And while you guys are overjoyed with these "vast" improvements that the mightly Lou was able to pull off you are forgetting 2 things...you're pretty much capped out and don't have anything close to a #1 and for that matter #2 center on the squad and your top 6 or 8 as Lou likes to carry is just as pathetic as ever as you'll see the great Mike Motteau and Brookbank taking regular shifts!

For that I as a NYR fan would like to thank Lou!

And back to the Devs going with the former NYR style of mangement, there's nothing like putting together a roster and trying to back square pegs into round holes as in having to resort to shifting wingers to play out of place as 1st line centers!

At least there is the 2nd or 3rd worst prospect pool in the entire NHL to fall back on if things don't work out!

And for those who haven't done so yet if you need a laugh just go and read most of the NJD regulars try and bash all the NYR prospects as being so overhyped and busts.

None are more amusing then Muttley who regularly gives us such gems just like the other day's "Marc Staal is simply a young Colin White" or Fortheloveof666 telling us that Staal "doesn't have a schred of the talent his brothers have".

But Muttley really takes the cake as he is so blinded by hatred that even his fellow Devil posters rip him and he has zero credibility as one of the reasons he knows Marc Staal suchs was from all those times he's "seen him on TV when he played in Hartford"!

When called on the fact that Staal plaed like 15 games in Hartford which maybe 1 was televised of course he backpeddled bigtime.

And at the end of all this these guys are still crowing about how Ranger managements has lost their minds but yet Lou had such a great summer that he has redeemed himself from being hands down one of the worst 5 GM's since the lockout ended!


Last edited by JR#9*: 07-10-2008 at 04:27 PM.
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07-10-2008, 04:27 PM
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The one difference...

is that the Devils retained a solid core - at forward and on defense - and added basically exactly what they needed - more scoring from the wing and someone to help out on the PP. Holik was an interesting signing, although he did pretty well last season and may be an asset, but I'm not 100% sure on him. It's easier for me to say the Devils got better for next season than for me to say the Rangers got better for next season. Beyond next season is tough to predict (for both teams). It's just so difficul to predict how major overhauls and changes in philosophy will pan-out, and that's the situation with the Rangers. It may be good for next season and great for beyond - but realistically, Sather rolled the dice and I think even he's crossing his fingers. Lou, for the time being, is sleeping pretty well having a good idea what he has (perhaps thinking in Holik he has the guy he had 7 years ago, which likely will not be the case, however).

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07-10-2008, 04:32 PM
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you laugh at the devils signing rolsten yet i saw many ranger fans that wanted him as well, sure the contract is a year too long but i will live with it if he can produce 30 goals or around that for the next 3 years. And while he may turn 40 at the end of the contract, rolsten is also a physical specimen, he plays like he has only turned 30.... and i will leave it at that.

EDIT: you have way to much time on your hand

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07-10-2008, 04:32 PM
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.........GREAT POST.......i agree with everything you said.....like the direction of this team and i exoect to see the debbies absolutely fall on their faces in a couple years

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07-10-2008, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
is that the Devils retained a solid core - at forward and on defense - and added basically exactly what they needed - more scoring from the wing and someone to help out on the PP. Holik was an interesting signing, although he did pretty well last season and may be an asset, but I'm not 100% sure on him. It's easier for me to say the Devils got better for next season than for me to say the Rangers got better for next season. Beyond next season is tough to predict (for both teams). It's just so difficul to predict how major overhauls and changes in philosophy will pan-out, and that's the situation with the Rangers. It may be good for next season and great for beyond - but realistically, Sather rolled the dice and I think even he's crossing his fingers. Lou, for the time being, is sleeping pretty well having a good idea what he has (perhaps thinking in Holik he has the guy he had 7 years ago, which likely will not be the case, however).
The Devils improved themselves and I never said otherwise but at what price?

Rolston will earn his 5 million in yr one and maybe 2 but yrs 3 and 4 when he's 39yrs old?

And even with this addition they still are forced to play wingers at center ice on their top line!

And on defense they did zip, nada, other than giving Salvador 2.9 per for 4 yr when he'll be 36!

Not to mention bringing back over the hill cup veterans to try and rekindle something that was 10yrs ago.

Sounds like typical Rangers signings of old!

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07-10-2008, 04:35 PM
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didn't read your post, i just had to say i might be the longest one i have seen on hfboards....might need to print it out for the train ride home

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07-10-2008, 04:36 PM
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Rolston is a guy...

who may not slow down considerably right away and can be productive until he's 40. Perhaps he's not scoring 30 goals when he's 40, but he may have a couple more 25-30 goal seasons in him. If he can do that for a couple years and slips to a third line in a couple more, they may not be too upset with what they paid for him.

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07-10-2008, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
The Devils improved themselves and I never said otherwise but at what price?

Rolston will earn his 5 million in yr one and maybe 2 but yrs 3 and 4 when he's 39yrs old?

And even with this addition they still are forced to play wingers at center ice on their top line!

And on defense they did zip, nada, other than giving Salvador 2.9 per for 4 yr when he'll be 36!

Not to mention bringing back over the hill cup veterans to try and rekindle something that was 10yrs ago.

Sounds like typical Rangers signings of old!
you forget that rolsten had 3 straight 30 goals seasons. they may be old but still have alot left in them.

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who may not slow down considerably right away and can be productive until he's 40. Perhaps he's not scoring 30 goals when he's 40, but he may have a couple more 25-30 goal seasons in him. If he can do that for a couple years and slips to a third line in a couple more, they may not be too upset with what they paid for him.
exactly

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07-10-2008, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by sattar18 View Post
you laugh at the devils signing rolsten yet i saw many ranger fans that wanted him as well, sure the contract is a year too long but i will live with it if he can produce 30 goals or around that for the next 3 years. And while he may turn 40 at the end of the contract, rolsten is also a physical specimen, he plays like he has only turned 30.... and i will leave it at that.

EDIT: you have way to much time on your hand
Slats had the discipline to not cave into Jagr for a 3rd yr and Rolston is in no way, shape or form anywhere near JJ so Lou had to cave in and give longer than others were offering otherwise he would've been shut out yet again from any sort of UFA's.

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07-10-2008, 04:39 PM
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JA...

I don't know what their farm looks like, so it's tough for me to comment beyond next season. If Salvador has a couple more good seasons and is a third pair defenseman when he's 35 and 36, $2.9MM then may not seem all that bad. I understand what you're saying, and don't totally disagree as it's nice to get younger than older, but my main comment was I'm pretty confident they improved for next season. I can't say what Lou has beyond - not sure when contracts expire, who's coming up through the system, etc. He's a pretty smart guy and I don't count him out. He seems to find a way.

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07-10-2008, 04:43 PM
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you forget that rolsten had 3 straight 30 goals seasons. they may be old but still have alot left in them.
you forget that prior to him going to Minny he has 48pts in 82 games and the had by far a career yr coming out of the lockout getting 79pts but since that he slipped 15 points in production the following yr and then lost another 5 pts last yr in production to be 20 pts off where he was so that is called a trend which tends to happen as players get closer to 40 then they are to 30!

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07-10-2008, 04:47 PM
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I don't know what their farm looks like, so it's tough for me to comment beyond next season. If Salvador has a couple more good seasons and is a third pair defenseman when he's 35 and 36, $2.9MM then may not seem all that bad. I understand what you're saying, and don't totally disagree as it's nice to get younger than older, but my main comment was I'm pretty confident they improved for next season. I can't say what Lou has beyond - not sure when contracts expire, who's coming up through the system, etc. He's a pretty smart guy and I don't count him out. He seems to find a way.
don't get me wrong Fltech, I think they improved as well but marginally and at what price?

That is why I am comparing them to the NYR's of the late 90's who just couldn't face that they were a middle of the road team that was average to slightly above average at best but with Lou stating the Devils will "never rebuild" combined with their inability to lure any top end UFA's as well as their nonexistent prospect pool makes for some really rough waters for Lou to navigate.

Next yrs team is deeper up front but still not a Cup contender and their defense has to be one of the absolute worst in the entire east.

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07-10-2008, 04:47 PM
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Every summer, someone posts here about how the Rangers are on the rise and the Devils are terminally ill or dead. Last year was the first time in years that the Rangers were better than the Devils and it wasn't by all that much. Without Jagr, maybe not at all. The moral of the story is don't write off the Devils just yet. Their GM's resume is multilevels ahead of ours over their careers, so hold off on the respective celebrations and burials.

It is all well and good to get younger. The key is to get better. Whether they have or not is anybody's guess right now and I'm not just talking about next year.

This offseason should have made it clear that teams can reconfigure themselves quickly but it does not necessarily mean that they are headed in the right direction. The Rangers probably have as many question marks as any NHL team, so to say that they are headed in the right direction is purely conjecture.

No matter how you slice it, this team has partially invested their future in Zherdev, a real boom or bust player. No, he is not the key to everything working out or not working out, but if he isn't a major scorer next year, please tell me who will be.

And don't try selling me the same bill of goods, Peter Prucha, as the answer. Dawes also better become the player some of us hope for or the MSG ice will be littered with small forwards who can't score. Dubinsky is the only young forward that we can be fairly sure has a rosy future. After that I see only maybes.

For all of the youth that is flowing in, I see far better youth (at least so far) floating into Pitt, Wash and Philly.

At some point Sather has to produce far better than he has to date in order to stay in charge or at least that would be the case if the Rangers had normal ownership. With Dolan, Sather could probably accomplish nothing for 20 years and retain his job.

Sather's drafting and overall body of work has been much better over the last few years but that is like saying that the ships that sailed in the years after the Titanic were the greatest ships ever built. The bar that Sather has set for himelf here could not have been easier to beat so spare me the great tales of the success of Sather.

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07-10-2008, 04:48 PM
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like i said.....they may have gotten better for next season, but in a few years when their main players get closer to 40 i see them spiraling down......although i do think for next season they got better

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07-10-2008, 04:48 PM
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You came up with all this drivel by your lonesome? OK, I'll play. The Devils will most likely have 2 or 3 rookies in their line-up, since you like to bring up age. As for Rolston, he played the most minutes during the season and playoffs for Minny and is in great physical shape and has great wheels. Rangers went after him hard but came up empty trying to add yet another former Devil. Holik for one year on the 4th line will be a beast and will also help on the power play. Add that to what many hockey people say was a good draft for Lou and he did have a good off-season.

The Devils prospect pool just got much better and next season Halischuck and Palmarie will get an opportunity to make the team. Devils also got bigger and added scoring. Do, they have questions, sure they do, but what team doesn't, minus the Wings. If there kids contribute, they have as good a shot of any team to make it to the conference finals. And are they better than the Rangers? I donít know, but I canít wait to find out.

Defense does need a tweak, but they can survive for the time being. Also love how Jagr and Avery have become bums on the Ranger board.

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07-10-2008, 04:54 PM
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I think the Rolston deal is a little shaky. I mean look at Shanahan; he came over here after a 40 goal season and pretty much halved his performance after that. You never know what you're going to get with guys that age. They might just wake up one morning and not have it anymore.

I'm not surprised by the money, but I'm certainly surprised by the length of the contract.

We took a very different approach than the Debbies this summer, at least so far. Slats and Renney gave the team a pretty serious overhaul. I like what they've done, although some of the moves confuse me I imagine they'll make sense by October. The Debbies, on the other hand, brought in a few pieces that they really needed. They improved where they need to improve (for the most part) and didn't really change much else. With the loss of Jagr, we forced ourselves to change, but change for the better in my opinion.

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07-10-2008, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post

Elias-Rolston-Bergfors
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Pando-Madden-Lagenbrunner
Zubrus-Holik-Clarkson/Vrana

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Is Bergfors a lock for the first line? He hasn't played a game in the NHL yet, has he?

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07-10-2008, 05:02 PM
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If Rolston mirrors Shanny's production...

the Devils won't be too upset. When he was Rolston's age, the league was in a lockout. The next year he scored 40. Then 29 and then 23. The difference between Rolston and Shanny is that Shanny was a physical player who stopped playing physical Rolston is a fast skater who won't be as slow as Shanny in four years (which will be when he hits Shanny's age). Looking at it that way, it doesn't seem to be such a bad deal.

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07-10-2008, 05:02 PM
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You came up with all this drivel by your lonesome? OK, I'll play. The Devils will most likely have 2 or 3 rookies in their line-up, since you like to bring up age. As for Rolston, he played the most minutes during the season and playoffs for Minny and is in great physical shape and has great wheels. Rangers went after him hard but came up empty trying to add yet another former Devil. Holik for one year on the 4th line will be a beast and will also help on the power play. Add that to what many hockey people say was a good draft for Lou and he did have a good off-season.

The Devils prospect pool just got much better and next season Halischuck and Palmarie will get an opportunity to make the team. Devils also got bigger and added scoring. Do, they have questions, sure they do, but what team doesn't, minus the Wings. If there kids contribute, they have as good a shot of any team to make it to the conference finals. And are they better than the Rangers? I donít know, but I canít wait to find out.

Defense does need a tweak, but they can survive for the time being. Also love how Jagr and Avery have become bums on the Ranger board.

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Berfors can't even put up 0.50 Pts per game in the AHL after 3 yrs but he'll be on the first line?

And the prospect pool is still bare bones and a 5'9 Tedenby doesn't change that as he is as boom or bust as can be with that size.

And my main point is that the Devils have gome completely the old NYR way as far as signing significantly older players as well as former players for a 2nd go round.

again, the Devils imrpoved upfront with the addition of Holik and Rolston but at what price?

And the Rangers wouldn't cave like Lou had to to avoid striking out yet again because Slats wouldn't give Jagr a 3rd yr, do you really think he'd give Rolston a 4th like Lou HAD TO DO?

Lenght is the reason Rolston chose NJ and the lenght was overpayment.

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07-10-2008, 05:04 PM
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Is Bergfors a lock for the first line? He hasn't played a game in the NHL yet, has he?
Looks like he's played in 1 NHL game, and his AHL career has been unspectacular to say the least:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid[]=80702


Debbies fans won't give up on him though. He's actually their top prospect!!!

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07-10-2008, 05:05 PM
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Is Bergfors a lock for the first line? He hasn't played a game in the NHL yet, has he?
He made the team last year and got hurt. Lamoriello has stated the he is a 1st or
2nd line player and that's where he will most likely play.

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07-10-2008, 05:16 PM
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NJD is the easiest team to pinpoint in the entire NHL.

First of all, they will play a system with which they will get run over completely by a good team playing good hockey. With that system they will also always get pts from teams that don't play well, good or bad.

So they will finnish with about as many pts they had last season, but later in the year, when more and more teams starts getting it together -- we all know how it will go down in the PO's. Unless they get a roadkill in the first round they are done and out.

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07-10-2008, 05:32 PM
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ola..

I had thought the Devils started out poorly and then put it together last season. What killed them in the playoffs, I believe, is lack of scoring, and a lack to carry the play in the offensive zone. It seemed that Brodeur had been standing on his head a lot during the season and just ran out of gas in the playoffs, and while the forwards seemed to skate hard, they had no finish, and that's what did them in. Seemed like in each game they were about a goal away from changing the game and they just didn't have that one more guy who could put them over the top. All else being equal, Rolston does that for them. But all else won't be equal so let's still play the games.

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07-10-2008, 05:36 PM
  #24
In The Flesh
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Originally Posted by Brooklyndevil View Post
You came up with all this drivel by your lonesome? OK, I'll play. The Devils will most likely have 2 or 3 rookies in their line-up, since you like to bring up age. As for Rolston, he played the most minutes during the season and playoffs for Minny and is in great physical shape and has great wheels. Rangers went after him hard but came up empty trying to add yet another former Devil. Holik for one year on the 4th line will be a beast and will also help on the power play. Add that to what many hockey people say was a good draft for Lou and he did have a good off-season.

The Devils prospect pool just got much better and next season Halischuck and Palmarie will get an opportunity to make the team. Devils also got bigger and added scoring. Do, they have questions, sure they do, but what team doesn't, minus the Wings. If there kids contribute, they have as good a shot of any team to make it to the conference finals. And are they better than the Rangers? I donít know, but I canít wait to find out.

Defense does need a tweak, but they can survive for the time being. Also love how Jagr and Avery have become bums on the Ranger board.

Elias-Rolston-Bergfors
Parise-Zajac-Gionta
Pando-Madden-Lagenbrunner
Zubrus-Holik-Clarkson/Vrana

Martin-Oduya
Salvador-Corrente
White-Greene
Mottau-Fraser
totally not true, there have always been some haters of each but most do not think that.

The devils up front are good, on the blueline, they stink.

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Old
07-10-2008, 05:38 PM
  #25
MBrodeur30
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Originally Posted by JA#11 View Post
The Devils improved themselves and I never said otherwise but at what price?

Rolston will earn his 5 million in yr one and maybe 2 but yrs 3 and 4 when he's 39yrs old?

And even with this addition they still are forced to play wingers at center ice on their top line!

And on defense they did zip, nada, other than giving Salvador 2.9 per for 4 yr when he'll be 36!

Not to mention bringing back over the hill cup veterans to try and rekindle something that was 10yrs ago.

Sounds like typical Rangers signings of old!
What price? You say it like we gave up a couple of promising young prospects to get Rolston and Holik? They were UFAs and Holik got a one-year deal and Rolston got a 4 year deal, which is risky, but he wouldn't have signed without overpaying him.

And Salvador is a great stay-at-home guy and 2.9M for a defender isn't that much.

You should know, you signed Redden to a deal worth 6.5M a year until he is 37.
You signed Chris Drury to a 5 year deal paying him over 7M until he is 36. You signed Naslund to a deal paying him 4M until he is 36.

And now you are saying that the Devils signed old players who'll decline to overpriced contracts? Come on! We added to veteran players who come off strong seasons with there respective clubs.
You signed veteran players who try to find a way to get things done again and you like the way the Rangers are going.

That simply doesn't make sense.

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