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Limitations on two-way salaries?

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07-10-2008, 08:22 AM
  #1
hdw
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Limitations on two-way salaries?

I've been trying to find anything in the CBA but failed (and I couldn't find anything here either, sorry if I missed it).

Are there any limitations on the two salaries in a two-way contract?

Or can you for instance get let's say 600k in NHL and 200k in AHL?

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07-10-2008, 08:52 AM
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Irish Blues
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Last year, there were 39 players on 2-way contracts who made over $100,000 in the AHL and another 11 who were guaranteed to make over $100,000. Of those 50 players, 11 had AHL salaries of $200,000 or more and another 6 were guaranteed to make at least $200,000.

The highest AHL salaries last season for players on 2-way contracts:
-- Dan Jancevski, DAL [$250,000]
-- Sheldon Brookbank, N.J [$250,000]
-- Mark Hartigan, DET [$235,000]
-- Micki Dupont, STL [$200,000 AHL, $250,000 guaranteed]

Keep in mind that just because someone made over $100,000 in the AHL or were guaranteed to make more than $100,000, they weren't automatically subject to recall waivers.

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07-10-2008, 07:44 PM
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Mike Farkas
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EDIT: answer withdrawn as not to add confusion...

For entry-level contracts, the limit (for 2008 draftees) is $65,000...


Last edited by Mike Farkas: 07-10-2008 at 08:49 PM. Reason: I was wrong.
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07-10-2008, 08:02 PM
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What I really meant was if you can "sweeten" a two-deal by offering a higher AHL salary without CBA repercussions?

Or will that have an effect on waivers and such, assuming that the player is not eligible for waivers in the first place of course?

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07-10-2008, 08:33 PM
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kdb209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Farkas View Post
I'm under the impression that this table (provided I didn't take it out of context) is the contractual limits for two-way contracts' minor league salaries...

50.9(g):


For entry-level contracts, the limit (for 2008 draftees) is $65,000...


However, IB says that some players made over $200,000...so I guess I did take that table out of context...in which case, I withdraw my answer...
Yup - you did take the table out of context.

That table is NOT an absolute limit on two-way minor league salary - it is the salary limit above which a player would normally be required to clear Re-Entry Waivers in oder to be recalled.

However, there was an exemption for AHL vets that was agreed to by the NHL and NHLPA after the CBA was originally approved - after the PHPA (the AHL Players Association) threatened to sue the league under anti-trust law, claiming that the Re-Entry Waiver clause acted as a de facto AHL salary cap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CBA Article 50.9(g)
(g) Minor League Compensation. Neither the salaries nor signing bonuses
paid to minor league Players shall be counted against a Club's Upper Limit or the Players'
Share. For a Player on a One-Way NHL Contract or a Two-Way Contract with a Minor
League Salary and compensation that could be earned in excess of the following
amounts:

2005-06: U.S. $75,000
2006-07: U.S. $95,000
2007-08: U.S. $100,000
2008-09: U.S. $100,000
2009-10: U.S. $105,000
2010-11: U.S. $105,000
2011-12: U.S. $105,000

the following rules shall apply:

(i) To the extent the Player does not require Waivers to be Loaned to
a minor league affiliate, he can be freely Loaned and Recalled; and

(ii) To the extent the Player does require Waivers to be Loaned to a
minor league affiliate, he cannot be Loaned or recalled without
first clearing regular Waivers, and then cannot be Recalled to the
NHL parent Club during the same League Year without also
clearing a new Re-Entry Waiver procedure
, pursuant to which the
Player can be claimed by another NHL Club for fifty (50) percent
of the contract's remaining amounts to be paid, with the balance to
be paid by and charged to the waiving NHL Club (both amounts to
be counted against each Club's Upper Limit, Actual Club Salary
and Averaged Club Salary, and counted against the Players'
Share); and

(iii) For a Player on an AHL contract with a Minor League Salary and
compensation that could be earned in excess of the applicable
amount set forth above in this Section 50.9(g), who signs an NHL
SPC for the same season with the AHL team's NHL affiliated
Club, the Player must first clear the new Re-EntryWaiver
procedure, pursuant to which the Player can be claimed by another
unaffiliated NHL team for fifty (50) percent of the SPC's
remaining amounts to be paid, with the balance to be paid by and
charged to the original NHL affiliated Club signing the contract
(both amounts to be counted against each Club's Upper Limit,
Actual Club Salary, and Averaged Club Salary and counted against
the Players' Share).
The Re-Entry Waiver procedure will not, however, be applicable to
Veteran Minor League Players defined as follows: (i) for goaltenders, Players who
have: (A) played in 180 or more professional games in North America (NHL, AHL
and ECHL), and (B) not spent more than 80 NHL games on NHL roster over the
prior two (2) seasons or more than 40 NHL games on NHL roster in the
immediately prior season; and (ii) for defensemen and forwards, Players who have:
(A) played in 320 or more professional games in North America (NHL, AHL and
ECHL), and (B) not spent more than 80 NHL games on NHL roster over the prior
two (2) seasons or more than 40 NHL games on NHL roster in the immediately
prior season.

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07-10-2008, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdw View Post
What I really meant was if you can "sweeten" a two-deal by offering a higher AHL salary without CBA repercussions?

Or will that have an effect on waivers and such, assuming that the player is not eligible for waivers in the first place of course?
There is no limit on AHL salary in the CBA - but no one is going to sign a player to a 2-way contract that has an AHL salary above the NHL's minimum.

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07-10-2008, 08:48 PM
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Mike Farkas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
Yup - you did take the table out of context.

That table is NOT an absolute limit on two-way minor league salary - it is the salary limit above which a player would normally be required to clear Re-Entry Waivers in oder to be recalled.

However, there was an exemption for AHL vets that was agreed to by the NHL and NHLPA after the CBA was originally approved - after the PHPA (the AHL Players Association) threatened to sue the league under anti-trust law, claiming that the Re-Entry Waiver clause acted as a de facto AHL salary cap.
Gotcha, thanks kdb, I had a feeling that was about re-entry waivers, but I wasn't completely sure. By original post said that there was no limit to minor league salary of a two-way contract (besides entry-levels), but then I thought maybe that table was it...ah well...thanks!

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07-10-2008, 08:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish Blues View Post
There is no limit on AHL salary in the CBA - but no one is going to sign a player to a 2-way contract that has an AHL salary above the NHL's minimum.
Ah, but a 800/200k is a good deal sweeter than lets say 800/85k.

Esp when the alternative might be a fixed 200k deal in Europe.

Which might be quite important for players who are hovering on their NHL break.

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07-10-2008, 11:03 PM
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what about a 800/800 contract, it would be to basically circumvent waivers as it make the player more likely to sign the 2 way since in the wallet of the player its a one way contract but it would be a plus for the team for allowing the player to skip waivers

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07-11-2008, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crusader Knight View Post
what about a 800/800 contract, it would be to basically circumvent waivers as it make the player more likely to sign the 2 way since in the wallet of the player its a one way contract but it would be a plus for the team for allowing the player to skip waivers
How would that allow the player to skip waivers??????

Players on two-way deals are exposed to waivers the same as players on one-way deals - waiver exemption is just based on number of years from signing or number of NHL games played, based on the players age when signed.

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07-11-2008, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdw View Post
Ah, but a 800/200k is a good deal sweeter than lets say 800/85k.

Esp when the alternative might be a fixed 200k deal in Europe.

Which might be quite important for players who are hovering on their NHL break.
This would not work to entice a player to come over - there is a cap on two-way salaries in ELS deals.

Draft Year - Maximum Minor League Compensation (Native Currency)
2005 $ 62,500
2006 $ 62,500
2007 $ 65,000
2008 $ 65,000
2009 $ 67,500
2010 $ 67,500
2011 $ 70,000

It could theoretically entice a marginal player coming off an ELS deal to stick around - but it would just guarantee that the player would be stuck in the AHL all year after being sent down, since they would be exposed to Re Entry Waivers.

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07-11-2008, 12:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
How would that allow the player to skip waivers??????

Players on two-way deals are exposed to waivers the same as players on one-way deals - waiver exemption is just based on number of years from signing or number of NHL games played, based on the players age when signed.
Exactly. Whether a player has a 1-way contract or a 2-way contract has absolutely no effect on whether the player is subject to waivers. In fact, there were about 10 guys last year who had 1-way contracts and started the season being exempt from waivers.

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07-22-2008, 01:17 PM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kdb209 View Post
It could theoretically entice a marginal player coming off an ELS deal to stick around - but it would just guarantee that the player would be stuck in the AHL all year after being sent down, since they would be exposed to Re Entry Waivers.
But the waivers, as stated above, is not related to salary, just to time.

This was just demonstrated when Red Wings signed Howard and Ericsson.

Both coming off their ELCs, and both still having one more year of being waiver exempt.

Howard got a "sweetened" two-way deal that I was pondering about.
600/200, followed by two one-way years at 750 and 800.

Ericsson got a 3 year one-way deal, 550, 900, 1250

To me this sounds like a team saying "yes we believe in you, but we want to use the last year of waiver exempt to the max and have you continue to grow in AHL, so here's a fat pack of cash to keep you happy".

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07-22-2008, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdw View Post
But the waivers, as stated above, is not related to salary, just to time.

This was just demonstrated when Red Wings signed Howard and Ericsson.

Both coming off their ELCs, and both still having one more year of being waiver exempt.

Howard got a "sweetened" two-way deal that I was pondering about.
600/200, followed by two one-way years at 750 and 800.

Ericsson got a 3 year one-way deal, 550, 900, 1250

To me this sounds like a team saying "yes we believe in you, but we want to use the last year of waiver exempt to the max and have you continue to grow in AHL, so here's a fat pack of cash to keep you happy".
This only works for a small set of players, whose waiver exemption extends past the end of their ELS contract - basically it works for players who sign their first SPC at age 22+ (like Ericsson) or for goalies (like Howard) who get an extra year of waiver exemption.

For most players, their waiver exemption will expire at or before the end of their ELS deals.

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