Could just be the 13th forward with Wellwood starting in Manitoba as he's on a two-way. It's difficult to speculate now though, we'll see how it all plays out in training camp.
Keep in mind that because Wellwood was claimed off waivers there are a bunch of things that have to happen before the team can send him down, I believe. I don't remember the exact details, but I believe the Canucks have to offer him to any other teams that put in a waiver claim for Wellwood.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cc
well, who isn't better than Krog in the lineup. it doens't make any sense to move anybody on the lineup unless it was for a salary dump and it's not as economically feasible to have an expensive 4rth line.
But you don't make plans to replace a guy you signed 10 days before without giving him a shot in the lineup. It just doesn't happen.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeker
Is Wellwood on a 2-way? I thought it was a one way.
Two-way, but because he was a waiver pickup I don't think it's as easy as just sending him down to the Moose. I could be wrong though.
I'm confused here...do you honestly think Gillis would sign Johnson only to waive him a week later? Or am I reading your posts wrong?
it depends on the circumstance. Sundin signing could very well be that circumstance to cause him to do this kind of thing. Gillis has indicated that he'll do whatever it takes to sign him.
However, I'm not saying this would be a particularly wise choice. the lineup as it stands is pretty solid.
it depends on the circumstance. Sundin signing could very well be that circumstance to cause him to do this kind of thing. Gillis has indicated that he'll do whatever it takes to sign him.
However, I'm not saying this would be a particularly wise choice. the lineup as it stands is pretty solid.
You are CRAZY to even suggest that Gillis would waive Johnson.
Keep in mind that because Wellwood was claimed off waivers there are a bunch of things that have to happen before the team can send him down, I believe. I don't remember the exact details, but I believe the Canucks have to offer him to any other teams that put in a waiver claim for Wellwood.
But you don't make plans to replace a guy you signed 10 days before without giving him a shot in the lineup. It just doesn't happen.
Two-way, but because he was a waiver pickup I don't think it's as easy as just sending him down to the Moose. I could be wrong though.
is there a rule against this? or is it simply a matter of ethics?
I'm just trying to understand the signing like everyone else. On many levels, it doesn't make sense.
it depends on the circumstance. Sundin signing could very well be that circumstance to cause him to do this kind of thing. Gillis has indicated that he'll do whatever it takes to sign him.
However, I'm not saying this would be a particularly wise choice. the lineup as it stands is pretty solid.
Horrible argument,
Gillis targeted Ryan Johnson before free agency started, in fact he contacted him a few minutes after 12 to express his interest in him. Everything Gillis has done was designed by a plan so if you say this would be a reactionary signing to fit in Sundin then it makes no sense to offer Johnson 1.2 million to begin with. It's not just a 4th liner that Gillis was interested in, its the intangibles that Ryan Johnson possesses which why he was so coveted by Gillis.
In short, Johnson=Gillis guy, Pyatt/Pettinger=Nonis guy.
You are CRAZY to even suggest that Gillis would waive Johnson.
who knows, it could be pettinger. Pettinger will play on the 4rth line right wing and maybe they dont' feel comfortable with him there with a left handed shot.
it depends on the circumstance. Sundin signing could very well be that circumstance to cause him to do this kind of thing. Gillis has indicated that he'll do whatever it takes to sign him.
However, I'm not saying this would be a particularly wise choice. the lineup as it stands is pretty solid.
I suppose it's not out of the realm of possibility (or is it? Would Gillis be allowed to do that?) but wow, would it ever look bad. I just can't see it happening. Signing other FA's would be a lot more difficult, seeing as they would know Gillis will sign you then waive you.
I'm curious - has anything like that ever happened before?
Everything Gillis has done so far makes perfect sense.
This ... I don't understand if it's a one-way deal. Wellwood would pretty clearly be the backup-plan #2 center if Sundin doesn't sign. Kesler-Johnson are pretty carved in stone as the #3 and #4 centers.
Until we see conclusive proof, though, it might still be a two-way deal.
The most conceivable theory is that he's a cheaper alternative to Pyatt or Pettinger. But then those guys bring size/grit to our bottom-6 while Krog plays a different position and is a small, skilled playmaker.
I do wonder about whether Pettinger will be on the opening-day roster. The Tony Gallagher article where he was referred to as a 'useless plug' or something along those lines could be pretty telling given the Gillis-Gallagher relationship.
it depends on the circumstance. Sundin signing could very well be that circumstance to cause him to do this kind of thing. Gillis has indicated that he'll do whatever it takes to sign him.
However, I'm not saying this would be a particularly wise choice. the lineup as it stands is pretty solid.
That's not even necessary. The place you should be putting money into your bottom six is the centre position. I have absolutely no issue sinking the combined salaries of Kesler and Johnson into the 3rd and 4th line centre positions as those are far more important players then your 3rd and 4th line wingers. They provide face-off depth, have greater defensive responsibility, and are consequently usually your best penalty-killers (and Kesler and Johnson should be our top two penalty killers). Where we need to cut salary is on the bottom six winger positions...specifically Pettinger and Pyatt. You can replace those guys at a fraction of the price without a significant drop in performance.
I believe Krog has been brought in to occupy one of those winger positions at near minimum salary. One of Pyatt and Pettinger will be moved (if not both), and Krog provides an auxiliary face-off presence should one of our centres get waived out of the circle. He also has playoff experience, and brings some other intangibles at near or at minimum salary.
I know everyone around here has a love-on for Pyatt and Pettinger, but in my opinion since Gillis doesn't see either of these guys as top six players he simply cannot afford to sink a combined $2.6 million in salary cap room into a couple of bottom six wingers.
That's how a bottom six should be built. With exceptionally solid centre depth, and effective minimum wage wingers.
Gillis targeted Ryan Johnson before free agency started, in fact he contacted him a few minutes after 12 to express his interest in him. Everything Gillis has done was designed by a plan so if you say this would be a reactionary signing to fit in Sundin then it makes no sense to offer Johnson 1.2 million to begin with. It's not just a 4th liner that Gillis was interested in, its the intangibles that Ryan Johnson possesses which why he was so coveted by Gillis.
In short, Johnson=Gillis guy, Pyatt/Pettinger=Nonis guy.
well, kesler is also Nonis guy as well and is worth quite a lot around the league. I don't want to suggest that Kesler would be the one to be replaced on the third line.
That's not even necessary. The place you should be putting money into your bottom six is the centre position. I have absolutely no issue sinking the combined salaries of Kesler and Johnson into the 3rd and 4th line centre positions as those are far more important players then your 3rd and 4th line wingers. They provide face-off depth, have greater defensive responsibility, and are consequently usually your best penalty-killers (and Kesler and Johnson should be our top two penalty killers). Where we need to cut salary is on the bottom six winger positions...specifically Pettinger and Pyatt. You can replace those guys at a fraction of the price without a significant drop in performance.
I believe Krog has been brought in to occupy one of those winger positions at near minimum salary. One of Pyatt and Pettinger will be moved (if not both), and Krog provides an auxiliary face-off presence should one of our centres get waived out of the circle. He also has playoff experience, and brings some other intangibles at near or at minimum salary.
I know everyone around here has a love-on for Pyatt and Pettinger, but in my opinion since Gillis doesn't see either of these guys as top six players he simply cannot afford to sink a combined $2.6 million in salary cap room into a couple of bottom six wingers.
That's how a bottom six should be built. With exceptionally solid centre depth, and effective minimum wage wingers.
then pettinger is the logical choice as he is currently a 4rth line right winger on the depth chart. If they get rid of pyatt too, they'd probably have to put wellwood on the 3rd line with kesler and burrows and krog as the 4rth line right winger with johnson and hordichuk
The most conceivable theory is that he's a cheaper alternative to Pyatt or Pettinger. But then those guys bring size/grit to our bottom-6 while Krog plays a different position and is a small, skilled playmaker.
I do wonder about whether Pettinger will be on the opening-day roster. The Tony Gallagher article where he was referred to as a 'useless plug' or something along those lines could be pretty telling given the Gillis-Gallagher relationship.
I get what you're saying but Gillis has been pretty adamant both that he wants the team to get grittier and that he sees the bottom-six as a group of checkers, which isn't really consistent with plugging Krog into the lineup.
If it's a 1-way contract, this signing can mean one of a few things:
1) That Sundin isn't going to sign. Kesler slots into the 2nd line spot, with Johnson and Krog behind him.
2) That Kesler could be moved. Gillis moves one of the old-team members out, and replaces him with one of his own guys (Johnson). Johnson can slide into the 3rd line center spot with Krog on the 4th.
3) Pyatt or Pettinger are going to be moved, and Krog simply fills a depth spot. I don't know Krog's history - has he ever played on the wing? I know he's known for being a solid faceoff man, but not sure if he has played on the wing before, or how he's played.
4) Insurance. By the start of the season, depending on how they do in camp and how the team fits together, they will just pick between Wellwood, Cowan and Krog (or someone else if one of these guys beats them out), as to who sticks with the team as the extra forward, and who gets waived. Krog signs, knowing worst case he gets NHL money to play in the minors, but has a chance to find another NHL job (waivers) if he can't stick with the canucks.
well, kesler is also Nonis guy as well and is worth quite a lot around the league. I don't want to suggest that Kesler would be the one to be replaced on the third line.
If it's a 1-way contract, this signing can mean one of a few things:
1) That Sundin isn't going to sign. Kesler slots into the 2nd line spot, with Johnson and Krog behind him.
2) That Kesler could be moved. Gillis moves one of the old-team members out, and replaces him with one of his own guys (Johnson). Johnson can slide into the 3rd line center spot with Krog on the 4th.
3) Pyatt or Pettinger are going to be moved, and Krog simply fills a depth spot. I don't know Krog's history - has he ever played on the wing? I know he's known for being a solid faceoff man, but not sure if he has played on the wing before, or how he's played.
4) Insurance. By the start of the season, depending on how they do in camp and how the team fits together, they will just pick between Wellwood, Cowan and Krog (or someone else if one of these guys beats them out), as to who sticks with the team as the extra forward, and who gets waived. Krog signs, knowing worst case he gets NHL money to play in the minors, but has a chance to find another NHL job (waivers) if he can't stick with the canucks.
My guess is #4... but who knows...
#4 seems the most logical choice and to answer you question, I have read that Krog can play all three positions.
well, kesler is also Nonis guy as well and is worth quite a lot around the league. I don't want to suggest that Kesler would be the one to be replaced on the third line.
Not mentioned is that it's just "poor business" to do "sign and trades". It makes it harder to sign free agents in the future. Does it make it impossible? Of course not but seeing as it's hard enough to attract free agents to Vancouver - why add any unnecessary obstacles like this?
Unless Kesler is being moved to move out some salary or bring in some more offense? Johnson steps up and takes his role as checking centre and Krog is the 4th line centre?
Kind of a confusing move right now...something else must be in the works.
I ****ing hope not.
There are many, many players I'd move before Kesler.
I get what you're saying but Gillis has been pretty adamant both that he wants the team to get grittier and that he sees the bottom-six as a group of checkers, which isn't really consistent with plugging Krog into the lineup.
To be fair we've dealt with this a few times. Just because Gillis says he wants to get 'faster' and 'grittier' doesn't mean every player on the roster necessarily embodies those qualities. Krog has decent foot-speed, and is absolutely deadly in the face-off circle. How many times last season did we complain about face-off depth. We now have two elite face-off guys in Johnson and Krog, and an up-and-comer in Kesler. H.Sedin is alright in the circle, and if we sign Sundin we'll most likely be one of the best face-off teams in the league. Again, if you're gonna play a successful puck-possession game (which seems to be popular with Detroits success) you need to win face-offs. And honestly, I don't see a huge amount of grit coming off Pettinger and Pyatt.
I agree you can feasibly keep Pyatt as the winger on the Burrows-Kesler line, and run a fourth line of Krog/Johnson/Hordichuck. The other thing Gillis stresses in every single interview is versatility, and Krog can play any forward position in the bottom six. Honestly, if the team works out the way I see Gillis planning it I highly doubt your 4th line is seeing very much ice-time off the PK anyways.
Not mentioned is that it's just "poor business" to do "sign and trades". It makes it harder to sign free agents in the future. Does it make it impossible? Of course not but seeing as it's hard enough to attract free agents to Vancouver - why add any unnecessary obstacles like this?
Krog signing doens't make sense in the first place. He's not a checker. He doesn't belong on the 3rd or 4th line really. They have someone like that in Wellwood.
He a bunch of awards in the AHL last year, so its worth a shot especially if it comes to the expense of Pyatt. Pyatt doesn't play with grit on a regular basis anyways and I doubt Krog's production will be much less (Pyatt 37pts two years in a row).
Awards (07-08):
Les Cunningham Plaque (MVP)
John B. Sollenberger Trophy (Leading scorer)
Willie Marshall Award (Leading goal scorer)
Jack Butterfield Trophy (Calder Cup playoffs MVP)
First All-Star Team (Center)
Hah! Good luck with that. On a good year, Krog would be lucky to score even half as much as Pyatt. He's had success in the AHL before and hasn't translated into NHL success either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nuckfan in TO
If it's a 1-way contract, this signing can mean one of a few things:
1) That Sundin isn't going to sign. Kesler slots into the 2nd line spot, with Johnson and Krog behind him.
2) That Kesler could be moved. Gillis moves one of the old-team members out, and replaces him with one of his own guys (Johnson). Johnson can slide into the 3rd line center spot with Krog on the 4th.
3) Pyatt or Pettinger are going to be moved, and Krog simply fills a depth spot. I don't know Krog's history - has he ever played on the wing? I know he's known for being a solid faceoff man, but not sure if he has played on the wing before, or how he's played.
4) Insurance. By the start of the season, depending on how they do in camp and how the team fits together, they will just pick between Wellwood, Cowan and Krog (or someone else if one of these guys beats them out), as to who sticks with the team as the extra forward, and who gets waived. Krog signs, knowing worst case he gets NHL money to play in the minors, but has a chance to find another NHL job (waivers) if he can't stick with the canucks.
My guess is #4... but who knows...
I can't see this being a possibility. If Sundin doesn't sign here, we're better off just going with guys from the Moose. Aren't there still one or two available lesser UFAs out there left too? With 10 mil of space, I can't see Gillis settling for Jason Krog under any circumstance. He's probably depth, on a two way, or Pyatt will be traded.
