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07-13-2008, 08:25 PM
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Gardner McKay
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What is the KHL's deal?

From Bill Meltzer at Hockeybuzz.

"On Friday, Continental Hockey League president Alexander Medvedev said that he believes Salavat Yulaev Ufa's signing of Alexander Radulov and the Columbus Blue Jackets' signing of 2008 first-round pick Nikita Filatov fell beyond the boundry lines of the NHL's verbal agreement with the various European Hockey Federations not to sign contracted players.

However, with the IIHF investigating the Radulov signing and requesting the KHL void Radulov's contract, the KHL has struck back. It has asked the IIHF to investigate Filatov's contractual status with CSKA Moscow.

The KHL and CSKA claim that the 18-year old forward has not completed his obligations to CSKA and the club, under Russian law, has the right to either demand compensation for Filatov's rights to be released or to demand the player return to Moscow to play next season.

CSKA claims Filatov has one year remaining on the contract he signed when he was promoted from its farm team in the third-tier Russian league (Russian hockey doesn't have the same junior structure as other European countries, but the farm teams serve the same purpose).

Filatov disputes it. In the months leading up to the NHL Entry Draft, he repeatedly told NHL scouts and teams that he'd be be free to play anywhere he wanted next season, and his goal was to play in North America immediately."


We all know about the Radulov situation, so is this the game they are playing? Its ok for them to come in and steal our players, but WE the NHL as a whole cannot do the same?

If this is how things will be from now on, it makes you wonder what the future will hold for Russians who hope to make the jump to the NHL in up coming years via the draft... do you think teams will be even more skeptical now with these events coming into play?

Do you think now they will try harder to retain Chere and make it harder for us to get him over here?

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07-13-2008, 08:48 PM
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its not looking good. ill tell u that much

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07-13-2008, 08:58 PM
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I believe it's understood by Omsk as well as the Rangers organization that Cherry has one more year left on his contract and he intends to honor it. I don't think there will be a legal debacle regarding whether or not Cherry can come and play in the NHL, but the decision will revolve around him. He may very well choose to stay in Russia and earn a big paycheck, but he might not.

My hopes are that Jagr speaks highly of not only the Rangers, but the NHL in general and encourages Cherepanov to make the transition to the NHL and earn his big pay-day, rather than have it handed to him because the KHL wants to take a run at the NHL.

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07-13-2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post


We all know about the Radulov situation, so is this the game they are playing? Its ok for them to come in and steal our players, but WE the NHL as a whole cannot do the same?
Um, NHL has stolen so many Russian players from their clubs without any type of compensation - from the KLM-Fetisov-Kasatonov unit to Malkin. Every Russian player in between 1989 to 2006. Their clubs have received ZERO for scouting, training and developing players.

With that being said, I believe that Salavat Yulaev of Ufa should terminate the contract with Radulov. Radulov's contract has not expired and should honor his contract, as well as KHL should honor Radulov's obligation to Nashville.

Filatov is still on a contract with the Red Army and was brought through the ranks ever since he was a pee wee. With so much money spent on the kid, I also believe that CSKA should be compensated by the Jackets.

Some may argue that KHL should compensate Nashville for Radulov, but it's not the same situation as CSKA's with Filatov. CSKA found Filatov when he was not even in his teens, while Radulov was a draftee and developed player.

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07-14-2008, 12:22 AM
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Gardner McKay
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemchinov13 View Post
Um, NHL has stolen so many Russian players from their clubs without any type of compensation - from the KLM-Fetisov-Kasatonov unit to Malkin. Every Russian player in between 1989 to 2006. Their clubs have received ZERO for scouting, training and developing players.

With that being said, I believe that Salavat Yulaev of Ufa should terminate the contract with Radulov. Radulov's contract has not expired and should honor his contract, as well as KHL should honor Radulov's obligation to Nashville.

Filatov is still on a contract with the Red Army and was brought through the ranks ever since he was a pee wee. With so much money spent on the kid, I also believe that CSKA should be compensated by the Jackets.

Some may argue that KHL should compensate Nashville for Radulov, but it's not the same situation as CSKA's with Filatov. CSKA found Filatov when he was not even in his teens, while Radulov was a draftee and developed player.
Then Nashville should be compensated by w/e team Radulov signed with.

Its a two way street and lately the Russians and the KHL dont want it to be.

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07-14-2008, 01:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
Then Nashville should be compensated by w/e team Radulov signed with.

Its a two way street and lately the Russians and the KHL dont want it to be.
There is a problem with this argument.

The CBA contains rules for what should happend to any player who won't honor his contract -- I don't know the exact writing but a player who have signed a contract with a NHL team and don't show up, inorder to play in Russia instead, should only be suspended from his NHL team according to the CBA, right? When Scott Niedermayer didn't show up in Ana in time for the camp and regular season, Ana couldn't sue him, right?

Its the same situation with Radulov, like Nashville can only suspend him according to the CBA.

If NHL teams wants to be able to demand compensation from Euro teams they must tear apart the CBA, get the NHLPA to the table, and write it down.

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07-14-2008, 03:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
There is a problem with this argument.

The CBA contains rules for what should happend to any player who won't honor his contract -- I don't know the exact writing but a player who have signed a contract with a NHL team and don't show up, inorder to play in Russia instead, should only be suspended from his NHL team according to the CBA, right? When Scott Niedermayer didn't show up in Ana in time for the camp and regular season, Ana couldn't sue him, right?

Its the same situation with Radulov, like Nashville can only suspend him according to the CBA.

If NHL teams wants to be able to demand compensation from Euro teams they must tear apart the CBA, get the NHLPA to the table, and write it down.
Well that explains alot

Thats moronic to have that in teh CBA. Suspend him? If he ****ing fleed to Russia *** is that gonna do? Why would he give a ****?

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07-14-2008, 04:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Great Dubinsky View Post
Then Nashville should be compensated by w/e team Radulov signed with.

Its a two way street and lately the Russians and the KHL dont want it to be.
Read the last paragraph of my post. In fact, read the whole thing again.

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07-14-2008, 05:55 AM
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The Russians would take on Shell Oil company over the Sakhalin oil/gas investments, claiming that the oil company is harming whales in the region......Shell bowed and paid....

Russian billionaires complain that BP oil company is running the 50/50 jv with TNK for their own benefit. BP cries foul, pleading with the Russian president and he said this is none of his business.....the BP TNK jv offices are frequently harrassed by the police just to keep them on the defensive...

Russia has withdrawn oil and gas supplies from various countries such as Slovakia, Hungary and most recently Ukraine when there was something they didn't like in their attitude towards Russia .....

What has all that to do with hockey you ask.....well?

Russia and Russians want to be (rightfully) considered at least as equal to the North Americans. They resent being belittled and told how they should run their country.
When interests of foreign investors and national pride collide they don't care about rights and wrongs. They do what is important to Russia. Are you going to sue a Russian company in Russia.....? Not likely

Like it or hate it that's how they are.

Now hockey is just a pimple on the world concerns a.s.

But given the recent wealth, combined with the oligarch's ambitions to show up their
north american billionaires the hockey will experience a new law.

If Russian politician and companies care little about contracts signed and agreements
made in business worth of billions do you really think they would give a monkey's a..
about some handshake with the NHL.

it was poopooed here and other sites that no selfrespecting NHL er would ever consider signing in Russia.

These are professional hockey players we are talking about. They come from the Canadian prairies and if there is Columbus offering 3 million and Moscow offering 8 I reckon they will go where the buck is.

The stride made by the KHL over the past year is huge and it is the beginning.
Once couple of the pioneering guys come back and say they were treated well, money is good, girls good looking and hockey excellent there is no doubt in my mind that more mainstream players will take the chance. The list is getting longer.

Certainly many young Russian players will come to the NorthAmerica to build a name for themselves that will be rewarded back home in terms of Rubles. But don't expect them to wait untill they are 35 to go back. they will drive their bargain much sooner
and this will be very expensive for the NHL. Actually I reckon the agreement and salary caps will be ditched in order for the NHL to compete for talent.....


To say otherwise is simply being blind to reality.
the KHL feels vindicated in their aggressive approach and sees the power of NHL diminished(diminishing). I cant see how the NHL is going to fight their cause. For once Bettman is a mental midget with whom ruthless Russian businessman will wipe the ice....


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07-14-2008, 06:33 AM
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Jaromir Jagr
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Well Russia has it's own side here as Nemchinov previously stated.

Russia has spent precious time and money on developing young players to play in their leagues only to find that at around the prime age of 18, some, not that many, bolt for North America and attempt to join the NHL.

In this particular situation, Columbus is in the wrong - as well as KHL.

What I believe will happen is that Filatov will have to stay with his respective club for one more year as it seems he has a contract to honor as well as Radulov, and therefore, Radulov will stay for one more year. Ultimately this makes no sense, because both players are not where the want to be and thus will not strive to play well probably. Even so, should this work out that way - it seems both players would refuse future contracts by the NHL and KHL respectively, and then part ways. KHL will not budge but I believe the Blue Jackets will.

On a side note this makes things interesting for Grachev and Cherepanov. I heard recently that Grachev would be suspended from playing in Russian leagues had he showed up to the Rangers training camp. This makes for interesting decisions - and sees just how mature or dedicated Grachev is to playing in the NHL. Only time will tell. With Cherepanov, I don't see any good things as I look further into the subject.....people are saying Jagr will spread the good word but I really think Jagr and Sather did not leave on good terms and Jagr's decision to play on OMSK will have no affect on Cherepanov's decision - and he will probably go for the big bucks and completely ignore the NHL. Hopefully I'm wrong.

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07-14-2008, 07:11 AM
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The best North American players will 'tend' to want to play in North America no matter what. The threat that the KHL poses will be to dilute the European talent base that the NHL desperately needs more and more of to keep a 30 team league viable. No doubt Don Cherry is pleased. A lot of people think there are too many teams anyway. FWIW--looking back at the old WHA--if nothing else it was good theatre--you could never really be sure whether or not one of your guys was going to be poached or somebody else's. It was always much better when it was somebody else's. You'd say 'so sorry'--while suppressing the urge to laugh. Life will go on--and it will be up to our genius commisioner to figure out how to deal with the Russians and keep all 30 teams afloat. That should be good theatre too. I'm not sure though that he'll be up to the job. We shall see.

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07-14-2008, 07:57 AM
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I am not saying the NHL is dead. Certainly top North American talent will be rewarded in the NHL, but we are talking average NHLrs making average salary who will be rewarded with better salaries over there. these guys have families to look after and Don Cherry's
BS is not going to help them 1 iota.

Yes the NHL can stomach the loss of Jon Grahame and Chris Simon. But these are early days. don't expect the assault on the NHL remparts to be over after this season, it will only get worse.

Once experiences are conveyed back to the locker rooms from few bonified players who ventured over there, guys will listen.

Radulov can't hardly be viewed as a fringe player, and neither is Jagr. Both want to go there for different reasons. Whatever the reasons are the fact is that the pull will be stronger from now on .....not less.

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07-14-2008, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
Russia and Russians want to be (rightfully) considered at least as equal to the North Americans. They resent being belittled and told how they should run their country.
I've been waiting to see if I was the only one who has made the connection between what we see going on in the hockey world and what we see with Russia in the "real world" as well. It really seems to me as though Russia is finally "back on the horse", if you will, and making serious attempts to re-assert themselves as a world power. There is a ton of strong rhetoric being thrown around by their leaders, and it is clear that there is a movement underway in that country to restore the pride that was lost in the post-communist era.

Is it a coincidence that the major influx of Russian bloc talent in the NHL came just as communism was collapsing? Definitely not, and now that the country is back on the track to economic viability I expect a reversal of sorts. This is about much more that being compensated for player development, or having players in the best league in the world. This is a matter of national pride and politics, and there is potential for things to get pretty messy.

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07-14-2008, 08:12 AM
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Not disagreeing with you London and truthfully I think Cherry's viewpoint on Europeans is really whacky. I see no reason why the KHL will not grow if its owners continue to show a willingness to spend their moeny. The talent level in the NHL will dilute--and quite possibly very significantly. What the ramifications from that will be--it's way too early to tell--but quite possibly if teams can't fill their buildings and/or compete and real interest wanes in certain areas--teams may have to move or fold.

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07-14-2008, 08:55 AM
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I am not trying to berate here.....I am trying to explain that the NHL has no god given lock on hockey talent. the big dough is available is now available in Russian, the hockey talent is there and there is a ton of hurt pride.

The NHL will have to adjust in the long run. we shall see changes. the CBA might become absolete sooner than we think. For czech, slovak, russian guys to play in Russia is no major biggie.

The NHL has tradition! there will be players who would want to make a name for themselves, go try it in the NHL, win the cup but all this with the thought of leveraging it back home.

2 viable leagues will be better for the game hopefully.
(there is great soccer league in Spain, UK, Italy......competing for the same talent)
but I reckon it will cost the NHL some franchises because the cost of doing business will go up.
That's my take on this.

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07-14-2008, 09:36 AM
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Three things.

One, Filatov will not go back to Russia. There is also a third party involved here, and that is the CHL (Canadian Hockey League) team that just drafted him. They drafted him with the understanding, as everyone was under the impression that he had NO contract in Russia.

Apparently he can lie quite well, straight to people's faces (including big shot NHL GM's at the NHL Draft Combine).

Bad trait in that crystal clean character people were so high on? He lied straight to their faces, and look at the fiasco it is causing.

Anyway, i doubt Filatov will be forced to go back to Russia. If anything the KHL team will be compensated for the expenses they used to develop Filatov.

And Radulov's situation can go either way. They may allow him to leave and KHL team would have to compensate Nashville. Or, Radulov will remain for the last year on his contract (the more likely scenario).



Two, this has NOTHING to do with Cherepanov.

I find it ridiculous how people are assuming anything with Cherepanov because of what OTHER people do. Cherepanov is not Radulov, he has his own brain that he uses.

If ANYTHING, Cherepanov is proving that he is LOYAL to his employer. He could be like any of these primadonnas, such as Malkin, Radulov, Filatov, and bolt from his contract. However, he has chosen to HONOR his contract and finish it.

He has stated over and over again that he wants to play for the Rangers. He also stated he wants to have a good year in the RSL (now KHL) before he comes over. Last year he felt was a let down year, this year will be his year, and then he is not obligated to Omsk after that.

Also by honoring his contract, he does not forfeit the right to play for Russia in international competition.

Cherepanov will be leaving Russia with NO CONTRACTUAL OBLIGATION at the time.

The Rangers, and Cherepanov will NOT be affected by this whole thing.

Cherepanov staying in Russia this year is a GOOD thing because of everything that has been going on. It is good for the Rangers, and good for Cherepanov.

The Rangers don't have to compensate anyone, and Cherepanov can play internationally with honor.



Three, i believe that the unofficial partnership that the Rangers and Omsk made earlier in the year, has a lot to do with this whole situation of no transfer agreement and Jagr going to Omsk... of ALL places. Coincidence? The Rangers issue a statement that Omsk and the Rangers have some sort of two way partnership. And the Rangers conveniently don't resign Jagr and let him go to Omsk. What makes anyone believe that Omsk won't do the Rangers the same honor? Am i the only one who remembers this partnership they were both speaking of? Perhaps that was the 'partnership' between Bardin and Sather, "we let Jagr go to you, you let Cherepanov come to us the following year, and we both avoid the fiasco involved of compensation and no transfer agreement."

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07-14-2008, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post

2 viable leagues will be better for the game hopefully.
I agree 100%

Long term it would be healthy for the growth of the sport.


The Macedonians invented hockey (albeit not in it's current form) about five thousand years ago. Perhaps we should compensate them by inducting Gilgamesh in the hockey hall of fame?

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07-14-2008, 09:49 AM
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I think that more functional professional hockey leagues can only work to make hockey better.

So I see no real issues with KHL snarfing player form NHL (or SEL for that matter).

The only thing I wonder is how sustainable KHL will be.

Will there be a sustainable economy behind it, or will it remain dependant on multi-millionaires supporting it as their personal plaything?

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07-14-2008, 10:10 AM
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Three, i believe that the unofficial partnership that the Rangers and Omsk made earlier in the year, has a lot to do with this whole situation of no transfer agreement and Jagr going to Omsk... of ALL places. Coincidence?
No, Jagr played there during the lockout, won a championship, and promised to return to play there again before he retired.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PukkuMikku View Post
The Rangers issue a statement that Omsk and the Rangers have some sort of two way partnership.
No, they didn't. Omsk's General Manager, Anatoli Bardin is the one that revealed this so-called partnership. He also said Cherepanov would be coming over for camp...

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07-14-2008, 10:14 AM
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Jagr is gone people lol he aint coming back....he wanted to play in Russia no matter how much we offered him he chose Russia over us so let it go

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07-14-2008, 10:20 AM
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No, Jagr played there during the lockout, won a championship, and promised to return to play there again before he retired.



No, they didn't. Omsk's General Manager, Anatoli Bardin is the one that revealed this so-called partnership. He also said Cherepanov would be coming over for camp...
Yes, Jagr played there before. But that doesn't mean Sather and Bardin didn't discuss this anyway.

I'm pretty sure Cherepanov is the one who made the decision not to go to camp. There is really no way for him to do so, considering the KHL season will have already started before Rangers camp opens. Unless he wants to miss considerable playing time. I think that is what he wanted to avoid this year.


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07-14-2008, 11:02 AM
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The only thing I wonder is how sustainable KHL will be.

Will there be a sustainable economy behind it, or will it remain dependant on multi-millionaires supporting it as their personal plaything?
Thank you, that's exactly the question I want answered as well.
What are ticket prices & TV revenues like in Russia? Average team salaries?

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07-14-2008, 11:08 AM
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The thing is -- there is allot of talk about the money the KHL is spending; like they aren't spending anything really when you look at the numbers. Like Redden and Prucha combined will probably earn more then what a avg KHL team will spend for their entire team.

The KHL is dooing the right thing, London talked about beeing able to attract mainstream players; and thats what its all about. 5-7 years ago and longer back they couldn't get anyone. Like basically not even half of all Russians who didn't make the NHL. They went to Swiss, Germany, Sweden and other countrys. Then 3-4 years ago they started beeing able to bring back thoose russians and maybe maybe like a couple of guys who could have been able to get NHL contracts. 1-2 years ago they started beeing able to attract a couple of finns, AHLers and Swedes who couldn't make the NHL.

Spending money to get Jagr and Radulov makes them more mainstream; thats why thoose guys are worth the money they are getting. It will be easier for them to get the best Swedes outside the NHL for example. The best Czech guys outside the NHL.

But if you look a couple of years down the road; things looks much diffrent. First of all, there defenitly isn't 20 oligarks who wants, or got a reason to (like the owners of teams in Siberia who wants to attract workers), spend allot of money on their hockeyteams. 3-4 teams in that league will seperate themself enourmously from the bottom 6-8 teams. Then it will become more about competition, and less about making the league mainstream. Maybe they will be able to carry like 5 bigger stars total while there is atleast 20 expensive Russian stars in the NHL alone now. Like if they got 20m to spend, its not worth to sign a Cherepanov for 6m per, a Tyutin for 5m per, and then 9m on 18 other players if you know what I mean.

My point is, don't expect the KHL to be able to really compete with the NHL in any way. Maybe just maybe there will be like 1 teams there once in a while that even remotely would resemble a NHL team. There will still be plenty of Russians in the NHL -- and I have a hard time seeing more then like a total of 2-3 non-russian NHL caliber talents in the KHL. And thoose guys will be guys who got a bad rep in the NHL. Like I could see a Huselius from Sweden go there. Players like that who don't get paid according to their talent in the NHL since they are seen as too soft et c.

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07-14-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sockosensei View Post
Thank you, that's exactly the question I want answered as well.
What are ticket prices & TV revenues like in Russia? Average team salaries?
these things can be found out on the websites. I venture to say they are far smaller than in the NHL..

it is not what matters though. Teevee shmeeve....

Omsk arena seats 6000!

the local industrialists want a team to have something to cheer about, provide the working classes with some entertainment and have a tool to compete against fellow
oligarchs in UFA, Salavat, Astana......total one upmanship.....the Russian way.

Is this sustainable...?

As long as oil, gas and gold are heading for sky.....don't worry about it!

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07-14-2008, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
The thing is --

First of all, there defenitly isn't 20 oligarks who wants, or got a reason to (like the owners of teams in Siberia who wants to attract workers), spend allot of money on their hockeyteams. 3-4 teams in that league will seperate themself enourmously from the bottom 6-8 teams. Then it will become more about competition, and less about making the league mainstream. Maybe they will be able to carry like 5 bigger stars total while there is atleast 20 expensive Russian stars in the NHL alone now. Like if they got 20m to spend, its not worth to sign a Cherepanov for 6m per, a Tyutin for 5m per, and then 9m on 18 other players if you know what I mean.

My point is, don't expect the KHL to be able to really compete with the NHL in any way. Maybe just maybe there will be like 1 teams there once in a while that even remotely would resemble a NHL team. There will still be plenty of Russians in the NHL -- and I have a hard time seeing more then like a total of 2-3 non-russian NHL caliber talents in the KHL. And thoose guys will be guys who got a bad rep in the NHL. Like I could see a Huselius from Sweden go there. Players like that who don't get paid according to their talent in the NHL since they are seen as too soft et c.
Ola - I beg to differ on this subject.....there are far more than 20 oligarchs to begin with.

You know why the prices for modern art are going skywards despite looming recession? you guessed it. The russian billionaires have taken a liking to art.

They happen to love hockey. The WC title for the Russians this year is no
accident! There is lot of pride in this. Russia also attracts a lot of soccer players to their
league.

Good czech players have been going to play in Russia for the past 10 years or so.
Clearly they were not making the money they could in the NHL but that option was closed to them. This is a work in progress

The NHL was not built from one day to another either. it took decades. Provided that
the industrial groups in remote towns continue to do well (and I have no doubt they will) then hockey will benefit. You can't have formula 1 in Ufa in October, but hockey works.....hoops will be next!

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