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Lats finally develops in a Leclair type of power forward

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Old
07-14-2008, 03:07 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
What were the ratios for A.Kost Kovalev Plekanec Markov and Streit on the #1 unit for comparison sake?
I tend to say "success"?

lol

Though, they had time.. And I'm okay with it since they ranked 1st..

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07-14-2008, 03:12 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by BadKiwi View Post
I can still come up with the fact that Dandenault played on the first line, it was a mistake. This is where you don't understand my point, someone with superior knowledge CAN make mistakes. Even if his good moves overshadows his bad ones greatly.

Dandenault.

Dandenault.
Wasn't that the season before last? And only played like 2-3 games in this season?

Again, I would counter-argue :

Top offense in the league

Top offense in the league

Top offense in the league




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Old
07-14-2008, 03:14 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Wasn't that the season before last? And only played like 2-3 games in this season?

Again, I would counter-argue :

Top offense in the league

Top offense in the league

Top offense in the league



Offense is not really linked to coaches...coaches usually have defensive systems and allow players to do pretty much whatever they want when they have the puck within certain guidelines. Forechecking systems can affect scoring...which for the 1st half they used primarily the trap, then used the 2-1-2 mostly starting in January and started scoring more.

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07-14-2008, 03:15 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
That would be 104 minutes total..

1 minutes 25 seconds per game

I like Lats, but his PP production wasn't all that good. That's 1 point at every 15 minutes of PP time, although given, he didn't get much practice, but still I would've expected just a bit more.
1 point every 15 minutes on the PP? Wow, did the Habs let that go on all season or was it the first 2 months?

I wonder why they did?

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07-14-2008, 03:17 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Le Slow Poke View Post
1 point every 15 minutes on the PP? Wow, did the Habs let that go on all season or was it the first 2 months?

I wonder why they did?
1 minutes 25 sec a game, do you realise that it's like the last 25 seconds of a power play with a face off in our zone, you send the 3rd line, just because, we lead 4-1.. ya know?

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07-14-2008, 03:21 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
For some perspective....
Ozy how does that rank on the team among forwards..... 7th - 8th???

He was not part of either the 1st or 2nd PP unit, thats my point.... He did not get the TONS of PP time that Le Slow Poke claims... .It didn't happen
You also have to consider how many penalties we were able to draw this year... I did the math with the numbers from nhl.com, and we got about 4.5 PP opportunities per game. Obviously they didn't all go the full two minutes, but 1:25 divided among 4 or 5 PPs doesn't average out to much time on each one.

As far as where Gui ranks among forwards, he's behind Kovy (4:09), Koivu (3:30), Plekanec (3:25), Higgins (3:12), both Kostitsyns (A 3:00, S 1:40), and Ryder (2:07) and ahead of Smolinski (00:35), Begin, Lapierre, Kostopolous, and Dandenault (all < 00:10).

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Old
07-14-2008, 03:22 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Le Slow Poke View Post
1 point every 15 minutes on the PP? Wow, did the Habs let that go on all season or was it the first 2 months?

I wonder why they did?
Quote:
Originally Posted by HabsDood View Post
1 minutes 25 sec a game, do you realise that it's like the last 25 seconds of a power play with a face off in our zone, you send the 3rd line, just because, we lead 4-1.. ya know?

Exactly.... thats a minute and a half out of 9 minutes per game.... guys like Markov had over 5 minutes a game... Kovalev, over 4 and half.... etc.

That numbr is really low... its not a lot of PP tim at all.

As LW pointed out.. thats 8th among forwards on the team last year... with 2 PP units... he wasn't on eitherone.

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07-14-2008, 03:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Le Slow Poke View Post
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA and thanku
Don't thank me so quickly Gilligan.

Markov 424:09 PP total 32 points for a MPPPP of 13,3

Kovalev 340:42 PP total 47 points for a MPPPP of 7,3

Higgins 263:18 PP total 25 points for a MPPPP of 10,5

Plekanec 277:15 PP total 25 points for a MPPPP of 11,1

Streit 395:24 PP total 34 points for a MPPPP of 11,6

Koivu 270:13 PP total 27 points for a MPPP of 10,0

Kostitsyn 234:51 PP total 16 points for a MPPPP of 14,7

Latendresse 104:02 - 4 points for a PPPM of 26

MPPPP = Minutes Per Power Play Point

He wasn't that bad for a guy that was used a quarter of the time (CORRECTION 15 seconds per PP).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Offense is not really linked to coaches...coaches usually have defensive systems and allow players to do pretty much whatever they want when they have the puck within certain guidelines. Forechecking systems can affect scoring...which for the 1st half they used primarily the trap, then used the 2-1-2 mostly starting in January and started scoring more.
Yeah and offense is probably not related to the matchups and line formations, and it's not related to how they enter the zone with the transition, not related to the game plan either

Gimme a break.

This debate is on whether he should've have put Lats on the top 6, yet the top 6 HE CHOSE (without Lats) produced the #1 offense in the league... see any causality?


Last edited by Ozymandias: 07-14-2008 at 03:35 PM.
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Old
07-14-2008, 03:30 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
He wasn't that bad for a guy that was used a quarter of the time (30 seconds per PP).
It's also with whom and when he was used..

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Old
07-14-2008, 03:33 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
This debate is on whether he should've have put Lats on the top 6, yet the top 6 HE CHOSE (without Lats) produced the #1 offense in the league... see any causality?
Can't argue with that statement..

And the debate is about " Let's say that Lats do become a LeClair".. What would your lines be, you'd be screwed and all but that's for another thread now lol

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Old
07-14-2008, 03:34 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Don't thank me so quickly Gilligan.

Markov 424:09 PP total

Kovalev 340:42 PP total 47 points for a MPPPP of 7,3

Higgins 263:18 PP total 25 points for a MPPPP of 10,5

Plekanec 277:15 PP total 25 points for a MPPPP of 11,1

Streit 395:24 PP total 34 points for a MPPPP of 11,6

Koivu 270:13 PP total 27 points for a MPPP of 10,0

Kostitsyn 234:51 PP total 16 points for a MPPPP of 14,7

Latendresse 104:02 - 4 points for a PPPM of 26

MPPPP = Minutes Per Power Play Point

He wasn't that bad for a guy that was used a quarter of the time (CORRECTION 15 seconds per PP).



Yeah and offense is probably not related to the matchups and line formations, and it's not related to how they enter the zone with the transition, not related to the game plan either

Gimme a break.

This debate is on whether he should've have put Lats on the top 6, yet the top 6 HE CHOSE (without Lats) produced the #1 offense in the league... see any causality?
I still thanku the rest u listed are our PP.

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Old
07-14-2008, 03:37 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Le Slow Poke View Post
I still thanku the rest u listed are our PP.
So you asknowledge that you are in fact Gilligan?

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Old
07-14-2008, 03:39 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
So you asknowledge that you are in fact Gilligan?
That's an English soccer fan who breaks things ain't it?

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07-14-2008, 03:45 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
I am really high on Latendresse, and yet I am an anglophone, so there goes your narrow-minded theory.

It's not his 'powerforward' potential, it's his scoring potential that makes him such a solid prospect.

What an idiotic thread.

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07-14-2008, 03:49 PM
  #90
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wow bro i wish i had 3 cars

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Old
07-14-2008, 03:50 PM
  #91
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wow bro i wish i had 3 cars
Whatever

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07-14-2008, 03:50 PM
  #92
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Latendresse doesn't play like a powerforward, and he doesnt have the attitude/grit/intensity either.

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07-14-2008, 03:51 PM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Evil Ted View Post
Latendresse doesn't play like a powerforward, and he doesnt have the attitude/grit/intensity either.
So John Leclair was not a power forward?

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Old
07-14-2008, 04:17 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Exactly.... thats a minute and a half out of 9 minutes per game.... guys like Markov had over 5 minutes a game... Kovalev, over 4 and half.... etc.

That numbr is really low... its not a lot of PP tim at all.

As LW pointed out.. thats 8th among forwards on the team last year... with 2 PP units... he wasn't on eitherone.
Please, I beg you to share this thread with other team boards PLEASE

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Old
07-14-2008, 04:30 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Le Slow Poke View Post
Please, I beg you to share this thread with other team boards PLEASE
So they can see you go by the nickname Gilligan?

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Old
07-14-2008, 04:31 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
So John Leclair was not a power forward?
Why are people comparing him to John Leclair? It makes no sense, Lats' game isn't even remotely similar to Lecair's. Lets not forget that Leclaire played in a completely different style of hockey. Unfortunatly the new nhl is heavily based on speed and agility, something which Lats doesn't possess. Yes he is taking skating lessons, but you don't learn how to skate fast, by using this logic all of us on this forum with the proper training could be olympic runners. Speed isn't something that is taught, it's an in born skill.

Ok so he scored 16 goals at 19 and 20 years old, nobody is taking that away from him, but Lats' is just an average player and I think a lot of people should relax on their expectations of him because they will be very disappointed. Even Dagenais scored 17 goals in 56 games in his rookie year and where is he now.

For those who believe Lats never got powerplay time can you please stop lying to yourselves because he did! He was recieving regular powerplay time at the begining of the season when Ryder was slumping and Sergei Kostitsyn hadn't made the team yet, but wasn't producing while those around him were scoring! It was only after late December where he was used on the powerplay once every five games. In fact Lats' two powerplay assists came in the Carolina game at the begining of the seasons!

If Lats' was such a threat every time he was on the ice, Carbo would have countinue to use him in situations where he would have excelled. If Carbo wasn't afraid of playing Lats in a top 6 role (sometimes top 3 role) when he was playing bad and didn't deserve it, he sure wouldn't have been shy to use him regularily and keep him in those situations regardless of his poor inconsistent player. But it's quite simple as to why he wasn't used regularly as a powerplay winger or a top 6 winger, it's because he wasn't playing good enough to deserve that time and there were players better than him. This is the exact reason why I shake my head when I see people putting Lats on the second line ahead of Higgins and Sergei Kostitsyn for next season. It makes absolutley no sense just because he has "Potential"; Patrick Steffan had "potential" so did Alexandre Daigle, he actually a few good seasons, but the amount of hype and pressure put on this kid is just ridiculous.

Lats is just an average player, who can fill a top 6 role for a short period of time if someone is injured, yes he is still young, but he hasn't shown anything in his game that gives indication to improvement. Lats is a very straight-forward player, with little vision in his game, he has the size that he does not use it and avergae hands. To put him higher on a depth chart than a player who scored 27 goals and 56 points in his 3rd year and player who had the same amount of points in 30 less games while being his rookie seasons is just absolutly nonsense.

If Lats was any other player whether it be russian, canadian, american, swedish or whatever, people would have normal expectations of him and their would have certainly have been less controversy, but because the francophone community is looking so hard for a francophone star they are placing expectations on him that he will not reach, which causes a backlash.

I'm not a Lats basher, I don't think he is as bad as some people make him out to be, but at the same time he's is no where near as good as what people make him out to be.

Lats will be a very streaky goal scorer playing in a 3rd line offensive role, probably reaching 20-25 goals 30-35 points as his ceiling, but the way some people speak about him you'd think he'd scoring 45-50 goals and 80-90 points.

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07-14-2008, 04:49 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by TheFly View Post
Why are people comparing him to John Leclair? It makes no sense, Lats' game isn't even remotely similar to Lecair's. Lets not forget that Leclaire played in a completely different style of hockey. Unfortunatly the new nhl is heavily based on speed and agility, something which Lats doesn't possess. Yes he is taking skating lessons, but you don't learn how to skate fast, by using this logic all of us on this forum with the proper training could be olympic runners. Speed isn't something that is taught, it's an in born skill.

Ok so he scored 16 goals at 19 and 20 years old, nobody is taking that away from him, but Lats' is just an average player and I think a lot of people should relax on their expectations of him because they will be very disappointed. Even Dagenais scored 17 goals in 56 games in his rookie year and where is he now.

For those who believe Lats never got powerplay time can you please stop lying to yourselves because he did! He was recieving regular powerplay time at the begining of the season when Ryder was slumping and Sergei Kostitsyn hadn't made the team yet, but wasn't producing while those around him were scoring! It was only after late December where he was used on the powerplay once every five games. In fact Lats' two powerplay assists came in the Carolina game at the begining of the seasons!

If Lats' was such a threat every time he was on the ice, Carbo would have countinue to use him in situations where he would have excelled. If Carbo wasn't afraid of playing Lats in a top 6 role (sometimes top 3 role) when he was playing bad and didn't deserve it, he sure wouldn't have been shy to use him regularily and keep him in those situations regardless of his poor inconsistent player. But it's quite simple as to why he wasn't used regularly as a powerplay winger or a top 6 winger, it's because he wasn't playing good enough to deserve that time and there were players better than him. This is the exact reason why I shake my head when I see people putting Lats on the second line ahead of Higgins and Sergei Kostitsyn for next season. It makes absolutley no sense just because he has "Potential"; Patrick Steffan had "potential" so did Alexandre Daigle, he actually a few good seasons, but the amount of hype and pressure put on this kid is just ridiculous.

Lats is just an average player, who can fill a top 6 role for a short period of time if someone is injured, yes he is still young, but he hasn't shown anything in his game that gives indication to improvement. Lats is a very straight-forward player, with little vision in his game, he has the size that he does not use it and avergae hands. To put him higher on a depth chart than a player who scored 27 goals and 56 points in his 3rd year and player who had the same amount of points in 30 less games while being his rookie seasons is just absolutly nonsense.

If Lats was any other player whether it be russian, canadian, american, swedish or whatever, people would have normal expectations of him and their would have certainly have been less controversy, but because the francophone community is looking so hard for a francophone star they are placing expectations on him that he will not reach, which causes a backlash.

I'm not a Lats basher, I don't think he is as bad as some people make him out to be, but at the same time he's is no where near as good as what people make him out to be.

Lats will be a very streaky goal scorer playing in a 3rd line offensive role, probably reaching 20-25 goals 30-35 points as his ceiling, but the way some people speak about him you'd think he'd scoring 45-50 goals and 80-90 points.
I very much agree with the bolded parts in your post... except on one part. The ceiling... I never put a ceiling on any young player, unless it's really obvious. Lats does have some upside and with a couple years under his belt, he might be a regular top 6 winger. Also, a player's skating can be upgraded with skating lessons, but it cannot do miracles with an average skater.

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Old
07-14-2008, 05:18 PM
  #98
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We need to have patience with Lats. They brought him up early. He's a five year project if there ever was one and he's ahead of schedule. I'd give him a break, he has a long way to go.

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07-14-2008, 05:22 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
So they can see you go by the nickname Gilligan?
Not at all Mary-Anne

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07-14-2008, 05:43 PM
  #100
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We need to have patience with Lats. They brought him up early. He's a five year project if there ever was one and he's ahead of schedule. I'd give him a break, he has a long way to go.
Exactly.

When he was brought up by the organisation, it was clear what he was: a project.

Yeah, he takes a roster spot. But they want him in the NHL, they want him to grow and get better and do it against the very best.

Some people say "next year". Damn. He's 20. I'll see when he's 25, where most power forwards explode. And if he keeps going at the pace he's at (if you look at other players like him in their youth), waiting those years will be worth it. Gainey and Timmins kind of know what they are doing with young players.

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