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Luring Sundin?

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07-15-2008, 11:56 AM
  #51
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by TheHotRock View Post
maybe you should open your eyes.

if we deal prucha, we have about 5 mil open for mats. throw that at him as a base and throw 2-3 more in incentives and that should do it.

mats can center naslund, gomez can center zherdev. you can let drury or dubinsky center the third line, let the other one line up on gomer's left. i think with sundin, we'd be a top 2 team in the conference...probably top 5 in the league.
Thats 5 mil without resigning Dawes and Sjostrom. Did you include Fritsche's new salary as well?

Until the CBA is renewed, player salaries cannot be carried over in the form of bonuses and incentives. So that 5 mil base and 2-3 mil more as incentives is actually a 7 - 8 mil hit.

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07-15-2008, 11:58 AM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
our top two lines are in worse shape now. Sundin at least is a big boy. and also on a line w/ Sundin and Nazzy does it make a difference who the other winger is. I tried to balance the scoring on the top two lines, and keep a good third. Dawes does not belong a third line either, he needs to play w/ some talent.
Yes they are, I agree. We currently have a huge need for a Top 6 forward. And agree about Sundin being big, just not very physical, especially this late in his career. I'd rather have a bigger, mopre physical forward then the 1-dimensional Dawes on my first line...

And this team will have decent talent on the 3rd line that Dawes won't be so far above that he can't play with..Hell, if you sign Sundin, he can paly with Dubi and Cally, both better players then Dawes..

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07-15-2008, 12:01 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Thats 5 mil without resigning Dawes and Sjostrom. Did you include Fritsche's new salary as well?

Until the CBA is renewed, player salaries cannot be carried over in the form of bonuses and incentives. So that 5 mil base and 2-3 mil more as incentives is actually a 7 - 8 mil hit.
Yeah, even if they drop Prucha, they are only clearing out about a mill after Hollwegs departure and Fritsches new deal...

They'll need to clear out even more - or get a HUGE favor from Sundin for this to happen.

Not like a little discount. We are talking anywhere from 3-7 million less than some of the figures being thrown around by montreal and vancouver.

Like i said, if the Rangers want him - and im not even sure about that - its up to Mats to make it happen.

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07-15-2008, 12:09 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
yes becaus you get rid of that contract in 2 years (when we have to sign Staal)... drury you still have his mistake for 4 and it is a NMC. Sundin if the team is bad you could probably trade him for more assets. Sundin would just put alot less pressure on our cap situation since his contract is only 2 years. Plus he is a much better player than Drury.

And I think it is more like 10-20 extra points a year over Drury.
What I like about Drury's contract is that the position is solified for years to come. If the going rate for a UFA center on the verge of retirment is $8M, then what's it going to cost to replace Sundin or Drury 2 years from now, assuming you can?

It's such an off-the-wall rumor, that it's honestly not even worth discussing. I think Sather has made it pretty clear that, if you're 35+, you're not getting a multi-year contract.

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07-15-2008, 12:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Yeah, even if they drop Prucha, they are only clearing out about a mill after Hollwegs departure and Fritsches new deal...

They'll need to clear out even more - or get a HUGE favor from Sundin for this to happen.

Not like a little discount. We are talking anywhere from 3-7 million less than some of the figures being thrown around by montreal and vancouver.

Like i said, if the Rangers want him - and im not even sure about that - its up to Mats to make it happen.
Prucha $1.6
Hollweg $500k

Fritsche 900k

that is a clearance of about $1..1 mil. (it will actually be slightly higher.)

I think one of voros Rismiller would have to be thrown to the AHL. That would free up another million.

Korps couldn't come up this year b/c of his cap hit ($1.1 i think)

so yeah you are right. if Sundin wants to come here it is up to him to make it happen.

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07-15-2008, 12:16 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
What I like about Drury's contract is that the position is solified for years to come. If the going rate for a UFA center on the verge of retirment is $8M, then what's it going to cost to replace Sundin or Drury 2 years from now, assuming you can?

It's such an off-the-wall rumor, that it's honestly not even worth discussing. I think Sather has made it pretty clear that, if you're 35+, you're not getting a multi-year contract.
we won't have to replace Drury 2 years from now via FA. Dubi and Ani should and most likely will be ready. in fact I think Dubi will be a better player than Drury in 2 years anyway.

and to your last point... it is worth discussing b/c otherwise I would have to focus on my job. wouldn't want to do that now.

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07-15-2008, 12:21 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Prucha $1.6
Hollweg $500k

Fritsche 900k

that is a clearance of about $1..1 mil. (it will actually be slightly higher.)

I think one of voros Rismiller would have to be thrown to the AHL. That would free up another million.

Korps couldn't come up this year b/c of his cap hit ($1.1 i think)

so yeah you are right. if Sundin wants to come here it is up to him to make it happen.
I just don't think we signed Voros and Rissmiller at 1 mil salaries to put them in the AHL. I think both will probably be on the 4th line with Betts and Rissmiller will sit when we need Orr to come in and do his thing. Though Rissmiller could get bumped to the 3rd line center role if one of Dubi or Drury are moved to the wing to keep them both in the top-six.

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07-15-2008, 12:25 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I just don't think we signed Voros and Rissmiller at 1 mil salaries to put them in the AHL. I think both will probably be on the 4th line with Betts and Rissmiller will sit when we need Orr to come in and do his thing. Though Rissmiller could get bumped to the 3rd line center role if one of Dubi or Drury are moved to the wing to keep them both in the top-six.
yeah probably, but I'm still wondering why we signed both of them at all. especially for $1mil. and especially voros for 3 years. i just dont see the need for them at all. unless mgmt has no faith in Byers.

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07-15-2008, 12:34 PM
  #59
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As a Canuck fan, I thought this thread was kinda interesting. It looks exactly like one of ours before Naslund signed with you guys. Right down to getting Bernier.

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07-15-2008, 12:43 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
I think one of voros Rismiller would have to be thrown to the AHL. That would free up another million.
Sending either of them down (unlikely) would mean we'd just have to fill the spot with some other slightly cheaper player. With Fritsche signing, we currently have 12 forwards and 6 dmen under contract, not counting prospects. If Dawes and Sjostrom sign that would be 14. Pretty much the only cap savings then would be to send Voros or Rissmiller down and bring up Byers, but we still need a 7th dman as well.

Unless Sundin agrees to play for $1-2 million, I don't see him coming here.

Edit: Forgot about Parenteau and Jamtin, but it doesn't really change our cap flexibility. They aren't included in our cap number listed here:

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=528806

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Old
07-15-2008, 12:52 PM
  #61
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I'd love to have him if we can squeeze him into the cap. We'd have to send down Korpikoski because I don't see the space for him really anyway and his cap hit is over 1mil. We still have sign Dawes and Sjostrom.

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07-15-2008, 12:58 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
yeah probably, but I'm still wondering why we signed both of them at all. especially for $1mil. and especially voros for 3 years. i just dont see the need for them at all. unless mgmt has no faith in Byers.
I don't understand it either. Byers seems like a much better alternative to Voros. 1 year for Voros and 3 for Rissmiller would have made a little more sense if they wanted to give Byers another year to develop. Unless of course they're planning on letting Orr go when he hits UFA status next year and are hoping Voros is a fighter with some more offensive upside.

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07-15-2008, 01:00 PM
  #63
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The word before July 1st was that Sundin would only agree to let Fletcher allow Montreal some talking rights if Mats also got to talk to NYR.

It will be no surprise to see Sundin in Ranger Blue next year. No surprise at all.



Will Sather owe the Leafs compensation of some kind because they chatted prior to July 1st?

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07-15-2008, 01:02 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I just don't think we signed Voros and Rissmiller at 1 mil salaries to put them in the AHL. I think both will probably be on the 4th line with Betts and Rissmiller will sit when we need Orr to come in and do his thing. Though Rissmiller could get bumped to the 3rd line center role if one of Dubi or Drury are moved to the wing to keep them both in the top-six.
Plans change......

Sather wanted Jagr back for real....he offered one year...JJ wanted 3...Sather said no

New plan

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07-15-2008, 01:06 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Plans change......

Sather wanted Jagr back for real....he offered one year...JJ wanted 3...Sather said no

New plan
True enough. Aren't Voros and Rissmiller on 1-way contracts though?

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07-15-2008, 01:07 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
What I like about Drury's contract is that the position is solified for years to come. If the going rate for a UFA center on the verge of retirment is $8M, then what's it going to cost to replace Sundin or Drury 2 years from now, assuming you can?

It's such an off-the-wall rumor, that it's honestly not even worth discussing. I think Sather has made it pretty clear that, if you're 35+, you're not getting a multi-year contract.
yeah but Sather gave Naslund a NMC...I know he isn't over 35 BUT you still can't wavie him (which is one of the main reasons you don't give guys over 35 a multi-year contract)

I don't think there is anything to Sundin coming here....I just can't see how the Rangers can fit him under the cap...I also don't know what it would mean for guys like Dubinsky and Zherdev next offseason with ZERO cap room to give them any sort of raise.....

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07-15-2008, 01:10 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
True enough. Aren't Voros and Rissmiller on 1-way contracts though?

Yea but I think we all know Sather isnt done yet.

We still need some size and grit in the top 6. They're are going to get hammered if he doesnt balance out what we already have with some size and grit.

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07-15-2008, 01:11 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
yeah but Sather gave Naslund a NMC...I know he isn't over 35 BUT you still can't wavie him (which is one of the main reasons you don't give guys over 35 a multi-year contract)

I don't think there is anything to Sundin coming here....I just can't see how the Rangers can fit him under the cap...I also don't know what it would mean for guys like Dubinsky and Zherdev next offseason with ZERO cap room to give them any sort of raise.....
I don't think Sundin is looking for a multi-year deal and the Ranger probably wouldn't give him one either. He is taking a long time to decide if he even wants to play this coming season, nevermind where.

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07-15-2008, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
yeah but Sather gave Naslund a NMC...
But you still don't have to apply the cap hit if he can't or won't fulfill his contract as you would for a player over 35.

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07-15-2008, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Melrose_Jr. View Post
But you still don't have to apply the cap hit if he can't or won't fulfill his contract as you would for a player over 35.
yes you would BUT what are the odds of that happening...

I'm not for Sundin signing here but I can SEE the Rangers doing it...

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07-15-2008, 01:21 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Yea but I think we all know Sather isnt done yet.

We still need some size and grit in the top 6. They're are going to get hammered if he doesnt balance out what we already have with some size and grit.
Indeed. I'm curious to see what he can pull out of his hat this time.

With guys like Malone getting fat contracts, I think the safe assumption is he'll target a bigger bodied top-six guy who is also under a decent contract for a few more seasons. Seems like they might be a bit sparse though.

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07-15-2008, 01:28 PM
  #72
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yes you would BUT what are the odds of that happening...

I'm not for Sundin signing here but I can SEE the Rangers doing it...
Ask Lou Lams.

I could definitely see the logic in trying to lure Sundin here to play with Jagr even if I didn't agree with it. I just don't see how he fits in amongst the current group.

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07-15-2008, 01:31 PM
  #73
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Just because a player has a 1-way contract doesn't mean he can't be sent down. The team just has to pay him that NHL salary no matter where he plays.

Sundin is very likely to take off after this season, so you absolutely cannot give him a multi-year deal for the reasons Melrose stated. If he can't even decide to this point if he wants to play, you can't bank on him playing next year.

Vancouver gave Sundin that 2 year offer because it won't kill them to have a $10m cap hit that they don't actually have to pay out. Basically, if Sundin retires the Canucks are $10m closer to reaching the cap floor (which may be around $45m next year) and that is $10m ownership doesn't have to throw around. I should say that I have no knowledge of the Canucks' roster values or if they have trouble reaching the floor or not or if they can afford the cap ceiling even. But that is the only way I can find justification for that absurd offer.

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07-15-2008, 01:37 PM
  #74
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Sundin is very likely to take off after this season, so you absolutely cannot give him a multi-year deal for the reasons Melrose stated. If he can't even decide to this point if he wants to play, you can't bank on him playing next year.

Unless you believe that Mats has already decided and is just waiting for Sather to make the room.

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07-15-2008, 01:49 PM
  #75
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Am I missing something?

from where would the room come to sign Sundin? Figure Rozsival, Redden, Drury, Gomez and Lundqvist are locks. There's less than $20MM left for the rest of the roster. There just isn't room for Sundin, unless he comes to NY for a dirt cheap price which I don't see him doing. For Sather to create room, one of the aforementioned would have to go - I just don't see that happening.

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