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Old
07-16-2008, 05:01 AM
  #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Nylander, at 35 years old, was looking to ride Jagr's coattails to a big payday and he got it from Washington.

Im glad he didnt get it here.

Seems like more smarts than balls to me.
In retrospect with his injury it was the right move.
I wouldn't have done it though.

Sundin is 38 and still a dominating center who is good for 2-3 years. Nylander who's game is not build on speed and force will last. He is like Larionov in a way and will play easily into his late 30.

As a coach I would have kept Nylander with Jagr and hired a strong left wing instead
and gone for either Gomez OR Drury as my 2nd line center depending on the deal I would have been able to get.

This would have added a bonified second line to an awesome first line.......
We rejigged the whole line up and this year we are at it again.....
TOO MANY VARIABLES / TOO MANY CHANGES. If Nylander and Jagr weren't our
future why would a declining Naslund be the answer....It's beyond me!

I am sceptical. We have not gotten any bigger and stronger either.

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Old
07-16-2008, 05:10 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Was reading this thread and until I got to your post, thought I was hullucinating. Especially on a board of fans who are known (or at least used to be known) for appreciating all aspects of the game.

Nylander? Over Gomez or Drury?

Come April?

You choose Nylander over Drury for one reason only. Your fantasy league team (read: personal offensive stats, October-March). Not if you want a better chance at winning a Stanley Cup.
Last time I checked....Nylander had more points fairly consistently than Gomez...
Now you will explain that with devils defensive system.....and that's fine.
But we had Jagr in at the beginning of the season 07/08 as our main thoroughbred coming off a good season and rather than building on that we altered the chemistry of the team.
it is a credit to Renney's coaching, and the team to overcome. But lets not kid ourselves here. the team wasn't better last year than the team of 06/07!


Last edited by Sad London Ranger: 07-16-2008 at 08:37 AM.
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07-16-2008, 06:23 AM
  #53
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Funny, I remember this board in 06-07 constantly *****ing of Nylander not being a true first line center, of Nylander getting his stats padded by Jagr, of the Rangers lacking that true first line center etc etc etc.
The image of Nylander sure improved a lot when he left the team.
However, I wish him all the best in WSH (they'll need him!) and full recovery from his injuries.

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07-16-2008, 08:25 AM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
HA.,..yea, nylander and jagr did a whole lot when jagr was injured the first season after the lockout.....
the point is when they play together healthy they are effective... y are you bringing up an injury. I'm pretty sure that if Drury had a separated shoulder he wouldn't be effective either. In fact he was basically non existant in this past playoffs when playing w/ a nagging injury.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
also, did you not watch buffalo against the rangers the season before in the PO's?.....he pretty much single-handedly beat the rangers, outscoring everyone in the series AND playing every pk and pretty much every shift against the jagr line....
First off Straka lead the series in pts w/ 7. Drury and Briere were tied for second w/ 6. Secondly the jagr line still produced 6 out of the 13 goals that we scored. or about a goal a game. Still not that bad. So if he did play every shift against the jagr line than the Jagr line still managed to score once every game. Again i'll take that any day. Drury was also held pointless 3 out of the 6 games, so i don't know how you say single handedly beat the rangers. I know you love Drury, but stop making him out to be a God. he is a good hockey player, but he is not this uber-star that you make him out to be. Buffalo had tons of skill on that team and could roll three lines so they were hard to defend. the Rangers had only 1 freakin line. And they still couldn't be stopped completely. If we had any type of second line that was worth a **** we would have won that series, and you know it.


And to take it further:

Drury had 13 pts in 16 PO games that year.
Breire had 15 pts in 16 PO games that year.

Jagr had 11pts in 10 PO games that year.
Nylander had 13 pts in 16 PO games that year.
Straka had 10 pts in 10 PO games that year.

Nylander had just as many pts as Drury in 6 less games. Nylander w/ Jagr was an awesome combo and would still be better than whoever you pair w/ Drury w/ on this team.


Last edited by Rags225: 07-16-2008 at 08:32 AM.
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Old
07-16-2008, 09:08 AM
  #55
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9darter...

you're exactly correct - everyone b#tched and moaned about Nylander, myself included. But of course, what were the options at the time to replace Nylander?

In the end, it was the right decision. Signing him to a 5 year deal is short-sighted. After a couple years of diminishing performances and possibly injury-filled seasons (he was injury prone throughout his career and getting older doesn't help any), the Rangers would be looking to get rid of him and wouldn't have any takers. The real question is, should Sather have picked up the team option back in 2005 that would've kept Nylander in NY another season at about $2.3MM. The danger of that would've meant Sundin would probably be here today, although the nearly $5MM extra on Drury may've been put to good use. In any event, that was a cheap option for the Rangers and for some reason they didn't pick it up.

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07-16-2008, 09:24 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier View Post
Was reading this thread and until I got to your post, thought I was hullucinating. Especially on a board of fans who are known (or at least used to be known) for appreciating all aspects of the game.

Nylander? Over Gomez or Drury?

Come April?

You choose Nylander over Drury for one reason only. Your fantasy league team (read: personal offensive stats, October-March). Not if you want a better chance at winning a Stanley Cup.
What are you talking about, I was arguing FOR Drury & Gomez over Nyls.


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07-16-2008, 09:42 AM
  #57
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Trottier...

If the Rangers picked up Nylander's option a couple seasons ago and he was here for $2.3MM for one season, I'd consider taking that over Drury because there's nearly $5MM more to spend (at the beginning of last season). I hear you about come April, although Nylander did pretty darn good in his last playoffs as a Ranger (13 points in 10 games and a couple goals in the series-deciding game in which the Rangers lost).

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Old
07-16-2008, 09:48 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
What are you talking about, I was arguing FOR Drury & Gomez over Nyls.

I'm betting he quoted the wrong post.

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Old
07-16-2008, 10:13 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
you're exactly correct - everyone b#tched and moaned about Nylander, myself included. But of course, what were the options at the time to replace Nylander?

In the end, it was the right decision. Signing him to a 5 year deal is short-sighted. After a couple years of diminishing performances and possibly injury-filled seasons (he was injury prone throughout his career and getting older doesn't help any), the Rangers would be looking to get rid of him and wouldn't have any takers. The real question is, should Sather have picked up the team option back in 2005 that would've kept Nylander in NY another season at about $2.3MM. The danger of that would've meant Sundin would probably be here today, although the nearly $5MM extra on Drury may've been put to good use. In any event, that was a cheap option for the Rangers and for some reason they didn't pick it up.
this is a post mortem on a key decision made by slats to alter the team's chemistry.
this will help Review Slats decisions with the benefit of hind sight of one year.

I was always against the two center deal we did last year. I was advocating that I would have taken Drury as a future leader and kept Nyls. The injury to Nyls at Wash
obviously tipped the balance clearly in the favour of the deal we made. This was an unpopular view. No doubt Gomez is a great player. But was he the right fit?

had Nylander stayed for a 3year deal and we would have picked up either Drury or Gomez as our 2nd center (not both) I reckon we would have been the better team last year....

I am not buying into the mantra that Slats is making this team younger (getting Naslund???) He didn't want to pay of for Nylander, he felt pressured and then spent more money on youngers guys. I am not sure there would be takers for the two if we decided to trade them given the salaries and the performace they had last year.

slats gave no love to Nylander and he gave no love to Jagr. They are gone.
Now slats needs to show that the moves he made were correct. Jagr carried Slats and Renney's asxes into playoffs, which covers Slats dismal trading record sofar. the team last year was not better than year before.

sofar I am not impressed


Last edited by Sad London Ranger: 07-16-2008 at 10:18 AM.
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Old
07-16-2008, 10:35 AM
  #60
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I don't really point to the injury...

and say I told you so - he played two seasons with the Rangers and was injury free and an injury in Washington doesn't mean an injury in New York. But I do think Sather didn't want to give Nylander a 5-year contract. That was the issue, I believe. My thought has been that he's a tough guy to give a long-term contract to (not necessarily because all 34 years shouldn't be signed to 5 year contracts). I did think that towards the end we could see a player who has had trouble staying healthy throughtout much of his career was a risk at five years as he gets older. I also thought that in a couple seasons when Jagr could be gone that it would be tough on Nylander, although he may've been a serviceable second line centerman. I do believe that in a couple seasons both Drury and Gomez would've been better for the Rangers, however, and in the end, that's what seals the decision. Again, though, it would've been interesting to have had Nylander for one more season at $2.3 million to see what Slats could've done with the roster.

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07-16-2008, 11:08 AM
  #61
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06-07 team was pretty much a center and couple of d-men away from making it to the finals. i thought the name of the game was to build on what u have?

another thing, im sure everyone remembers the "czechmate" line, why did slats gut that line too? here finally there was something to build on, but he gutted the line to get lindros.


Last edited by Tuxman: 07-16-2008 at 11:17 AM.
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07-16-2008, 11:23 AM
  #62
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The Czechmates...

seemed to have had a run of 20-25 games in which they weren't even the focal point of other teams' top defensive pairings and defensive fowards and were really a second line. He needed a top line. Other teams, surprisingly, focused on Messier, not Nedved, however crazy that sounds and since Mess was getting up there in age, Sather needed to find a top line guy. Fault him for getting the wrong guy, but he was right in his thinking.

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07-16-2008, 11:32 AM
  #63
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Jeff Toms once had a hat trick - why didnt we build on that !???


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07-16-2008, 11:38 AM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Jeff Toms once had a hat trick - why didnt we build on that !???

im sure u were trying to be funny. try harder next time

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Old
07-16-2008, 12:08 PM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
this is a post mortem on a key decision made by slats to alter the team's chemistry.
this will help Review Slats decisions with the benefit of hind sight of one year.

I was always against the two center deal we did last year. I was advocating that I would have taken Drury as a future leader and kept Nyls. The injury to Nyls at Wash
obviously tipped the balance clearly in the favour of the deal we made. This was an unpopular view. No doubt Gomez is a great player. But was he the right fit?

had Nylander stayed for a 3year deal and we would have picked up either Drury or Gomez as our 2nd center (not both) I reckon we would have been the better team last year....

I am not buying into the mantra that Slats is making this team younger (getting Naslund???) He didn't want to pay of for Nylander, he felt pressured and then spent more money on youngers guys. I am not sure there would be takers for the two if we decided to trade them given the salaries and the performace they had last year.

slats gave no love to Nylander and he gave no love to Jagr. They are gone.
Now slats needs to show that the moves he made were correct. Jagr carried Slats and Renney's asxes into playoffs, which covers Slats dismal trading record sofar. the team last year was not better than year before.

sofar I am not impressed
Im a little confused as to how you're not buying into fact. Naslund is the oldest member of this team at 34. Before his acquisition, Drury and Redden were the oldest at 31. Do you expect the entire lineup to consist of sub-30 players? Would that finally convince you that Sather is trying to get younger? I mean, you need some veteran presence in your lineup no matter what.

I could be wrong, but I think even with Naslund's signing, this team is still the youngest in the East at an average age of around 28.

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Old
07-16-2008, 12:10 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuxman View Post
im sure u were trying to be funny. try harder next time

After reading thru this entire thread, that was funny.

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07-16-2008, 12:21 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuxman View Post
im sure u were trying to be funny. try harder next time
Sorry, just trying to cheer you up after things didnt go your way

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07-16-2008, 01:02 PM
  #68
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things didnt go my way?

i was just voicing my opinion on how teams should build on what they have when something works. not to break up what works in hopes something else would work as well. im sure u think u're smarter and disagree with my opinion but it doesnt mean u could take shots at me or my posts

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07-16-2008, 01:07 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuxman View Post
things didnt go my way?

i was just voicing my opinion on how teams should build on what they have when something works. not to break up what works in hopes something else would work as well. im sure u think u're smarter and disagree with my opinion but it doesnt mean u could take shots at me or my posts
We have different opinions thats all, lighten up a bit, we're just fans and want to see our team succeed.

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Old
07-16-2008, 03:08 PM
  #70
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I find it unbelievable some of you wanted to sign a 35 year old Nyls to a 4-5 year deal...making essentially only about 2 million less than Drury a year. Perhaps this year Nylander and Jagr would've managed to keep up their success but at the ages of 35 and 36 its not likely at all they would keep up that kind of production. Say what you want about Drury, the guy is a winner..period. He costs a bit more than Nylander, but will likely be a better option in the near future (if not already). The fact of the matter is that this team is a defensive powerhouse, and is being built to further aid in that category- Drury fits that perfectly, while Nylander is far from it.

Futhermore- take into account that Drury was the teams 3rd line center for much of the year, and the playoffs (because Jagr only really had success with Dubi making him the 1st line center by default). Sorry...but you cant compare what Nylander did with 1st line time with a year younger Jagr to what Drury did with a year older (and terrible much of the year) Shanny and Dawes or another role player.

Bottom line- I would've been all for Nylander on a 1-2 year deal worth 4-5 million. When we need to lock into a 40 year old riding Jagr's back for 5 million in a tight salary cap era, it's time to look elsewhere. At the end of Drury's contract I would bet money on the fact that he will be the better option than Nylander at the same time. And since Jagr's moved on..we could've been stuck with Nylander for 3-4 sub-par years at a hefty price.

There really is no argument here.

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Old
07-16-2008, 03:24 PM
  #71
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Can't see the problem here.
Nylander could have got a very high paying contract with the Rangers, but not for more than 2 years.
He wanted more years, and for that Sather offered less dollars per year.
Business decision, I would have done the same.

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07-16-2008, 03:37 PM
  #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
Last time I checked....Nylander had more points fairly consistently than Gomez...
True. But that's not the point (pardon the pun).

Nylander is not the player (as opposed to perimeter skating figure skater) that either Gomez or Drury are. Stat sheet doesn't tell one that. Your own two eyes do.

Gomez and Drury have been major, top six contributing forwards to Cup teams. Nylander, in a much longer career, has been essentially allergic to team success, especially in the post-season. (Fletch, your post about Nylander's apring '07 output is well taken. That said, it is the exception to the rule.)

Chalk it all up to coincidence. I don't.

NYR has an exponentially better opportunity to get into June with Gomez and/or Druy than it ever would have with Nylander.

Sather had the money to retain Nylander. He knew better. Brought in guys with lesser stats, but with much greater proficiency for producing when it matters most...in all aspects of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
What are you talking about, I was arguing FOR Drury & Gomez over Nyls.

Re-read the post. I was endorsing your point of view.


Last edited by Trottier: 07-16-2008 at 05:53 PM.
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Old
07-16-2008, 04:55 PM
  #73
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It may've been the exception...

or it may be what he can do while playing with Jagr. In the end, my question is does having Nylander on the books for $2.3MM, plus whoever the team can get, make more sense than Drury for five seaons at $7MM. It doesn't become Drury vs. Nylander. Could that difference, plus a bit more if they were able to move Prucha at the beginning of the season, have netted a worthwhile winger to make the comparison of Drury vs. Nylander and a winger?

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Old
07-16-2008, 05:43 PM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
Jeff Toms once had a hat trick - why didnt we build on that !???


He did, he got his nose broken by a puck while sitting on the bench in the same game he scored the Hat, Poor SOB.


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Old
07-16-2008, 05:48 PM
  #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy London Ranger View Post
I am not buying into the mantra that Slats is making this team younger (getting Naslund???)
Dem's da facts.

http://nhlnumbers.com/compare.php?se...eage&order=ASC

3rd youngest team in the league, youngest team in the conference. I'm not sure how anyone could see it otherwise.


Last edited by jas: 07-16-2008 at 05:53 PM.
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