HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Rangers PIM next season?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-16-2008, 10:50 AM
  #1
Poozer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 407
vCash: 500
Rangers PIM next season?

Last season the Rangers took 372 minor penalties (9th fewest).

Looking at their top 10 leaders in PIM from last season; Avery, Hollweg, Jagr, Backman, and Malik are all gone. Obviously the two notables there are Avery and Hollweg (2 and 3 on the team respectively in terms of PIM).

So what do people think? I know they have signed Voros, but I think their projected new style of uptempo hockey should lead to a lot less penalties against. We will not longer have Jagr hooking players to get back in the play on defense. Avery and Hollweg won't be around for the refs to assume they must have committed a penalty.

I think it will be a good season in this regard, and its something that will certainly benefit the team.

Poozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 10:53 AM
  #2
nyrcallahan24
nomvegannom
 
nyrcallahan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 2,963
vCash: 500
I think it'll be less. Now that hollweg and aves are gone thats going to decrease by at least 100 pim

nyrcallahan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 11:39 AM
  #3
King of cool
The winning hat
 
King of cool's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Under your skin
Country: France
Posts: 2,001
vCash: 500
That's a good thing, we're complaining about dumb penalties last season. If in the same time we can increase our PP output, that can only be good to take less penalties.

King of cool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 11:45 AM
  #4
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poozer View Post
Last season the Rangers took 372 minor penalties (9th fewest).

Looking at their top 10 leaders in PIM from last season; Avery, Hollweg, Jagr, Backman, and Malik are all gone. Obviously the two notables there are Avery and Hollweg (2 and 3 on the team respectively in terms of PIM).

So what do people think? I know they have signed Voros, but I think their projected new style of uptempo hockey should lead to a lot less penalties against. We will not longer have Jagr hooking players to get back in the play on defense. Avery and Hollweg won't be around for the refs to assume they must have committed a penalty.

I think it will be a good season in this regard, and its something that will certainly benefit the team.
Excellent observation Poozer.

Not only did Hollweg take the worst penalties at the worst times, but more often than not, it was JAGR in the box during those big moments - fortunately for the Rangers, they had a good pk and bailed him out a majority of the time.

But a very good point here i think.

It might not be a huge difference... but it might be big enough to realize as the season wears on.

Someone should compile the PIM of all the new guys compared the ones that left
- and then last years roster to this years hint hint

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 11:49 AM
  #5
NYROrtsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Poozer View Post
Last season the Rangers took 372 minor penalties (9th fewest).

Looking at their top 10 leaders in PIM from last season; Avery, Hollweg, Jagr, Backman, and Malik are all gone. Obviously the two notables there are Avery and Hollweg (2 and 3 on the team respectively in terms of PIM).

So what do people think? I know they have signed Voros, but I think their projected new style of uptempo hockey should lead to a lot less penalties against. We will not longer have Jagr hooking players to get back in the play on defense. Avery and Hollweg won't be around for the refs to assume they must have committed a penalty.

I think it will be a good season in this regard, and its something that will certainly benefit the team.

What a joke... They'll take fewer penalties but also lose a lot more. Great trade off.

NYROrtsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 11:53 AM
  #6
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
What a joke... They'll take fewer penalties but also lose a lot more. Great trade off.
Get over it.

This is not a Jagr thread.

He makes valid points, and hes talking strictly PIM here, read the title.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 11:53 AM
  #7
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,473
vCash: 500
Less PIMs...

but not a significant amount of less short-handed situations.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 11:57 AM
  #8
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
but not a significant amount of less short-handed situations.
Gotta say Shanahan too.

Theres a point there, because there were a lot of coincidental minors when he and other scrappy players like Avery and Hollweg come to mind.

Which begs the question... does less overall PIM result in a much softer team?

It sure could.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 12:42 PM
  #9
NYROrtsFan
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post
Get over it.

This is not a Jagr thread.

He makes valid points, and hes talking strictly PIM here, read the title.
I bolded the specific part of the post that I had issue with, and then made a comment on it. Read both posts clearly, and back the hell off.

My general point is that some people have gotten confused over the last few years and let things bother them that really doesn't mean much in the big scheme of things. Jagr and his hooking penalties (early in the season) were maddening to everyone, but when you get what the Rangers got from him, you deal with it.

This team will not be better although they may take fewer penalties. The refs will still find a way to put these guys in the box.

NYROrtsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 12:51 PM
  #10
Poozer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 407
vCash: 500
The Jagr line was just an example of why the Rangers should take fewer penalties as a team next year.

Poozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 01:02 PM
  #11
RMcDonagh
New York Rangers Cup
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 6,269
vCash: 500
While your correct and your observations are well thought out (because I, and I don't think anyone else was thinking of this)..

Did you take into effect the players we acquired that will be on the team? While you can't pinpoint a player's PIM totals for the year, you can give an average ranged estimate...

Out:

Jagr - 58 PIM
Malik - 48 PIM
Strudwick - 40 PIM
Avery - 154 PIM
Hollweg - 96 PIM
Backman - 20 PIM
Tyutin - 43 PIM
Straka - 22 PIM
Shanahan (Probably) - 35 PIM

Total PIM OUT = 516

In:

Rissmiller (Probably not on team) - 30 PIM
Voros - 141 PIM
Zherdev - 34 PIM
Redden - 60 PIM
Naslund - 46 PIM
Kalinin - 32 PIM
Fritsche - 22 PIM

Total PIM IN = 365

Now, of course these players all played different amounts of games and played with a different team. To the obvious statistical lookup, the Rangers look as if they will take less penalties, which is a good thing, but at the same time we're losing some players who seem to draw penalties greatly in favor of us (e.g. Jagr, Avery, Straka).

Do I think we'll be a better disciplined team? Yes. I think any team without Sean Avery is capable of being a discipled team.

RMcDonagh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 01:33 PM
  #12
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,473
vCash: 500
I think...

that overall PIMs directly correlate with toughness/softness. Obviously there are those bonehead minors that can drive up the PIMs, but to get your PIMs really up, you have to get those fighting majors, misconducts, etc. Overall, this team is soft. It's soft up front and on the blueline; softer than last season. Not sure how that will play out.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 01:42 PM
  #13
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,929
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Staal View Post
While your correct and your observations are well thought out (because I, and I don't think anyone else was thinking of this)..

Did you take into effect the players we acquired that will be on the team? While you can't pinpoint a player's PIM totals for the year, you can give an average ranged estimate...

Out:

Jagr - 58 PIM
Malik - 48 PIM
Strudwick - 40 PIM
Avery - 154 PIM
Hollweg - 96 PIM
Backman - 20 PIM
Tyutin - 43 PIM
Straka - 22 PIM
Shanahan (Probably) - 35 PIM

Total PIM OUT = 516

In:

Rissmiller (Probably not on team) - 30 PIM
Voros - 141 PIM
Zherdev - 34 PIM
Redden - 60 PIM
Naslund - 46 PIM
Kalinin - 32 PIM
Fritsche - 22 PIM

Total PIM IN = 365

Now, of course these players all played different amounts of games and played with a different team. To the obvious statistical lookup, the Rangers look as if they will take less penalties, which is a good thing, but at the same time we're losing some players who seem to draw penalties greatly in favor of us (e.g. Jagr, Avery, Straka).

Do I think we'll be a better disciplined team? Yes. I think any team without Sean Avery is capable of being a discipled team.
nicely done!!

i see the rangers as taking less penalties, however, i also see them as having a more offensive penalty kill with younger, hungrier players on it who will counter-attack on the pk like philly and montreal

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 01:44 PM
  #14
Poozer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Vermont
Country: United States
Posts: 407
vCash: 500
I was looking mainly at minor penalties (as most majors are fighting and thus are canceled out in terms of PP/PK).

I don't think minor penalties are a sign of a teams toughness, maybe they are a sign of turnovers and whether or not the team plays defense as a team... but not toughness.

Poozer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 01:44 PM
  #15
NYR Viper
Moderator
 
NYR Viper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: PA
Country: United States
Posts: 29,929
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
that overall PIMs directly correlate with toughness/softness. Obviously there are those bonehead minors that can drive up the PIMs, but to get your PIMs really up, you have to get those fighting majors, misconducts, etc. Overall, this team is soft. It's soft up front and on the blueline; softer than last season. Not sure how that will play out.
both 1st place teams in the east and west were widely considered "soft" in montreal and detroit and the ydid just fine.....the thing the rangers have that neither of those teams had is orr.....a legit enforcer.....also, the one thing that teams use is their pp....if your team has very good pp, it makes other teams think twice about taking dumb penalties

NYR Viper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 02:10 PM
  #16
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,473
vCash: 500
An enforcer...

doesn't make a team go from soft to much less soft. I still believe that having a forward in the top six who can muck it up and be physical, kind of like Avery was when successful for the Rangers, or Holmstrom was for the Wings while scoring 20 goals and being a pain in the butt, is an asset. When I'm talking about team toughness I'm not talking about a guy who plays 5 minutes per night and may win a fight, or get into a fight one ever 7 or 8 games.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 02:44 PM
  #17
HockeyBasedNYC
Registered User
 
HockeyBasedNYC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Here
Country: United States
Posts: 13,198
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYROrtsFan View Post
I bolded the specific part of the post that I had issue with, and then made a comment on it. Read both posts clearly, and back the hell off.

My general point is that some people have gotten confused over the last few years and let things bother them that really doesn't mean much in the big scheme of things. Jagr and his hooking penalties (early in the season) were maddening to everyone, but when you get what the Rangers got from him, you deal with it.

This team will not be better although they may take fewer penalties. The refs will still find a way to put these guys in the box.

Remind me again what they got from him in the regular season?

Oh yeah, 4 points between Nov 15th and Dec 16th...

Goaless in 10 straight games twice during the season...

Goaless in 5 straight games 4 times...

4 PP goals in the first 79 games of the season...

oh yeah now i remember.

and dont tell me to back off buddy. i wont.


Oh and youre right, theyll find a way to put them in the box no matter what.

HockeyBasedNYC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 03:47 PM
  #18
bogans
Registered User
 
bogans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Philly
Country: United States
Posts: 637
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyBasedNYC View Post

Goaless in 10 straight games twice during the season...

Goaless in 5 straight games 4 times...
Not to be a stickler or anything but aren't these two the exact same things?

bogans is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-16-2008, 04:24 PM
  #19
9darter
Soft Euro
 
9darter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Göteborg
Country: Sweden
Posts: 696
vCash: 500
There will be many new players on the team this year.
Coaches will experiment with line shuffling and defense pairings for most of the season.
Give a third-liner 20 minutes of ice time, he may tire and hold instead of skate.
Put a first-liner on a checking line, he may do something stupid.
Put players outside their usual comfort zone = more hooking, tripping, holding until they grow into their new roles.

9darter is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2015 All Rights Reserved.