I'm also a Canadian, and I'm proud of 1867 Confederation, 1917 Vimy Ridge and the 1972 Summit Series. I'll also brag about it too if I like, thank you very much. By the same token, I'm proud of Conn Smythe, Charlie Conacher, Syl Apps, and the franchise's 13 Stanley Cups. I'll also brag about them as well, if I'm ever confronted by a fan of another, ahem, "less-storied" team. This whole thread was started with the Leafs in mind. Well, we may not have won the cup for a while, and the present may look bleak, but we have history and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
This is not winning a war or an important battle in a great war, something that luckly only has occasion to happen every now and then. This is a sport, something that has a championship to be won every year. How many other Confederations, Vimy Ridges, or even Summit Series have there been? So of course we remain proud of those things and have a right to brag about them. But winning the Cup is something that happens every year, and if your team hasn't won it in 30 years or more then there's little to brag about... 30+ years of futility.
I'm going to have to disagree here. Toronto's my city, born and raised. The feats accomplished in the name of my city, whether it happened in 1793, 1813 or 1967, is something to be proud of and celebrated by all Torontonians.
I'm also a Canadian, and I'm proud of 1867 Confederation, 1917 Vimy Ridge and the 1972 Summit Series. I'll also brag about it too if I like, thank you very much. By the same token, I'm proud of Conn Smythe, Charlie Conacher, Syl Apps, and the franchise's 13 Stanley Cups. I'll also brag about them as well, if I'm ever confronted by a fan of another, ahem, "less-storied" team. This whole thread was started with the Leafs in mind. Well, we may not have won the cup for a while, and the present may look bleak, but we have history and I wouldn't trade that for anything.
This is not winning a war or an important battle in a great war, something that luckly only has occasion to happen every now and then. This is a sport, something that has a championship to be won every year. How many other Confederations, Vimy Ridges, or even Summit Series have there been? So of course we remain proud of those things and have a right to brag about them. But winning the Cup is something that happens every year, and if your team hasn't won it in 30 years or more then there's little to brag about... 30+ years of futility.
By that logic Chris Chelios has no right to brag about his 3 Norris trophies, since he hasn't won one in a dozen years. What has he done for us lately, other than providing us with a decade of futility, right? Now I know what you're going to say. You'll say this is different because he personally earned them. You'd be right, but that's not the point. His kids would have every right to brag about their dad's accomplishments too, even if they weren't born.
You said that we can be proud and brag about Confederation, Vimy Ridge and the Summit Series because those things don't happen all the time. No, no, and no. We can be proud and brag about them because it's a part of our history. And isn't that what this whole thread's about? Being alive or not when the glory happened? I already know my team is pathetic right now. And I know all about the Ballard years. But guess what? Hockey history in Toronto didn't begin in 1967. The history of Toronto and everything associated with it (Leafs included) is the history of who I am. Which gives me plenty to brag about.
The fact people even care about this is sad. A cup is a cup so i dont see why it matters if you were around or not. As far as bragging goes... unless you played on that team, there shouldnt be much to brag about considering you had zero to do with your teams success. Its one thing to be proud and happy about it but bragging about it sounds dumb to me.
You said that we can be proud and brag about Confederation, Vimy Ridge and the Summit Series because those things don't happen all the time. No, no, and no. We can be proud and brag about them because it's a part of our history. And isn't that what this whole thread's about? Being alive or not when the glory happened? I already know my team is pathetic right now. And I know all about the Ballard years. But guess what? Hockey history in Toronto didn't begin in 1967. The history of Toronto and everything associated with it (Leafs included) is the history of who I am. Which gives me plenty to brag about.
A team's history is more than just the Cups it has won. So yea, the Maples Leafs have a long and great history in the NHL, that's something to be proud about. That "history" still continues today! But as for winning Cups or even a Cup, that hasn't continued and hasn't happened since 1967. 15 different teams/cities have won the Cup since then, that puts Toronto in the bottom half of teams with Cup bragging rights.
And as for having won the Cup 13 times, most of those wins were won when the League only had 6 teams, so the odds of winning were much greater than they are now, and that's 24 other current teams that the Leafs didn't then have to compete against in order to win it. Hey, I'm not trying to specifically knock the Leafs, but they seem to be the primary focus of this thread so my commentary here is using them as an example.
*. The team has won a Cup before, but it was before you were born or even before you were at least 5 years old.
**. The team has won several Cups in its history, but again they were all before you were born...
***. The team has won one or more Cups since you were old enough to actually appreciate the Cup run yourself.
****. The team has won one or more Cups in recent history and still has a significant number of the Cup winning players on the roster.
*****. You were an active member, player or coach, of a Cup winning team.
I can be a 3-star bragger based on that, but in truth it doesn't feel like much to brag about with my team not having won the Cup in 36 years.
Your team is your team and it shouldn't matter whether you were alive or not....and by the way, I was around for the Oilers cups in the 80s.
But is it really your team if the players, the coachs, and the GM etc were not the ones you cheered for personally? The name of the team might be the same but its not the same team IMO.
You lose bragging rights after a year IMO. Its great to look back on it, but its the past.
The whole "yeah, well, at one time we were the best team!" is ridiculous.
coming from a fan whose team was never the best.No personnal attack, just pointing out the obvious. You are like a nun talking about sex.
I think the habs have done so much for the NHL since they were created that they earned the right to brag about what they want. The habs MADE the NHL. Their fanbase is worldwide. Their impact on the NHL is invaluable. To another level they are also the identity of a whole nation of francophones in a sea of anglophones. This team is hockey's New York Yankees. Habs fanbase worldwide is probably bigger than the fanbases of all other nhl teams combined. Get used to it.
All the original 6 teams were the NHL until some idiot decided to make nhl contracts public. That led to today's contracts, now agents have comparables and can also use the media. Some other idiots decided a bunch of new teams with funny names and ugly shirts were needed. They decided Arizona was a better fit for hockey than Winnipeg. The Quebec Nordiques went to Colorado therefore killing the greatest hockey rivalry in hockey history. Only those who have lived habs-nordiques games will understand. Greatest hockey games of all. 2 teams in the same province. Damn that was intense!!! You don't see those anymore. Too much teams/scrubs around these days. Hockey suffers from it. A lot. Fourth liners from 20 years ago now play on the 2nd line in most teams...A guy like Ryan Malone would have been a fourth liner 20 years ago. And get crazy amounts for VERY LONG periods... Hockey is sick...
But I still breathe Habs/hockey. I love it as much as I ever did but damn was it poorly managed.
Last edited by peperebougon*: 07-19-2008 at 04:17 AM.
I'm going to have to disagree here. Toronto's my city, born and raised. The feats accomplished in the name of my city, whether it happened in 1793, 1813 or 1967, is something to be proud of and celebrated by all Torontonians.
Big difference between having pride and bragging rights!
A team's history is more than just the Cups it has won. So yea, the Maples Leafs have a long and great history in the NHL, that's something to be proud about. That "history" still continues today! But as for winning Cups or even a Cup, that hasn't continued and hasn't happened since 1967. 15 different teams/cities have won the Cup since then, that puts Toronto in the bottom half of teams with Cup bragging rights.
And as for having won the Cup 13 times, most of those wins were won when the League only had 6 teams, so the odds of winning were much greater than they are now, and that's 24 other current teams that the Leafs didn't then have to compete against in order to win it. Hey, I'm not trying to specifically knock the Leafs, but they seem to be the primary focus of this thread so my commentary here is using them as an example.
What are you trying to argue anyway? I already acknowledged the Leafs' history since 1967. In fact, that's what everyone is trying to say, that only the present matters. I acknowledged that, and then made a point that history extends before 1967. And why is Toronto in the bottom half of teams with cup bragging rights? Because you said so? Do the Rangers have more cup bragging rights than Montreal just because they won more recently? This is silly. Everyone is trying to lay down the laws of how much one's permitted to brag and be proud. All of this reeks of douchebaggery and insecurity. Just be proud of your own team and let others brag however much they like. Do you see me trying to regulate how much Habs or Wings fans should be allowed to brag? No, because I don't give a rat's arse. I'm proud of my team and good for others if they're proud of theirs.
Sure, the Leafs won when there were 6 teams, and teams today win in a 30 team league. Half of the 30 teams nowadays are garbage anyway, and would have no shot whatsoever at the cup. You could put those teams in the 60's and those Leafs still would've mopped the floor and won their cups. By your logic, Gordie Howe's scoring titles aren't as impressive as Alex Ovechkin's, because Gordie didn't have to compete with 700 NHLers.
The fact people even care about this is sad. A cup is a cup so i dont see why it matters if you were around or not. As far as bragging goes... unless you played on that team, there shouldnt be much to brag about considering you had zero to do with your teams success. Its one thing to be proud and happy about it but bragging about it sounds dumb to me.
Big difference between having pride and bragging rights!
That's true, and I don't brag when it's unwarranted. I'm not a bragger by nature, but I reserve the right to do so when other fans trash my team. It's funny when fans of teams with 1-2 cups think they're the bees knees just because they've been around 20 years and won in the last decade. People speak of the Leafs' 1951 cup win like it's an insult. I actually relish watching my team in black and white, the same way Yankee fans do with Dimaggio and Mantle.
It does strike me as a little weird that people equate winning a cup in a 6 team league to the teams that do it in the current league, or at least post expansion.
*. The team has won a Cup before, but it was before you were born or even before you were at least 5 years old.
**. The team has won several Cups in its history, but again they were all before you were born...
***. The team has won one or more Cups since you were old enough to actually appreciate the Cup run yourself.
****. The team has won one or more Cups in recent history and still has a significant number of the Cup winning players on the roster.
*****. You were an active member, player or coach, of a Cup winning team.
I can be a 3-star bragger based on that, but in truth it doesn't feel like much to brag about with my team not having won the Cup in 36 years.
Let's just stick with this.
works for me!
plus I also can be a three star bragger.
Let's just stick with this.
works for me!
plus I also can be a three star bragger.
I dunno, I think its pretty weak for me as a pens fan to brag about the two cups in the early 90's when none of those players still exist right now. Those were great times and all but they don't make the franchise what it is right now. Now a cup win in the next few years is certainly worth bragging, but they have an expiring shelf life if ya know what I mean.
I dunno, I think its pretty weak for me as a pens fan to brag about the two cups in the early 90's when none of those players still exist right now. Those were great times and all but they don't make the franchise what it is right now. Now a cup win in the next few years is certainly worth bragging, but they have an expiring shelf life if ya know what I mean.
I know what you mean. I just like his ranking system for people who feel the need to brag.
I was around for the oilers cup wins and my friends and I don't really bring it up now. what's the point? It's worse than bragging you were the high school football star 20 years ago. but at least the football guy actually played in the big game.
all we did was watch tv.
I appreciate having watched the old oilers and glad I was there to enjoy the moment, but bragging? I hate when someone brings the Edm-Cgy 5 cups to 1 argument out. it's embarassing.
. . .
Everyone is trying to lay down the laws of how much one's permitted to brag and be proud. All of this reeks of douchebaggery and insecurity. Just be proud of your own team and let others brag however much they like. Do you see me trying to regulate how much Habs or Wings fans should be allowed to brag? No, because I don't give a rat's arse. I'm proud of my team and good for others if they're proud of theirs.
Sure, the Leafs won when there were 6 teams, and teams today win in a 30 team league. Half of the 30 teams nowadays are garbage anyway, and would have no shot whatsoever at the cup. You could put those teams in the 60's and those Leafs still would've mopped the floor and won their cups. By your logic, Gordie Howe's scoring titles aren't as impressive as Alex Ovechkin's, because Gordie didn't have to compete with 700 NHLers.
You seem to be confusing the fact of Toronto's history or Gordie Howe's scoring titles with the bragging rights of today's fans. I'm not someone you need to be making the comment that I'd be considering Howe's scoring titles aren't as impressive as Ovechkin's. Two different eras, two different classes of players, it can't really be compared.
And as someone else just said above, being proud of something in history isn't the same as bragging about something today.
And you're mentioning Habs and Wings fans, well I'm a Bruins fan and I have very little to brag about in comparison to a Leafs fan. I can talk about the great team of the 70s, which still only managed to win 2 Cups, and about Orr being arguably the best player of all-time, and perhaps about the Bruins reaching two Cup finals in '88 and '90, but the fact is that I really don't have anything to brag about with respect to Cup wins since the early 70s, and if I'm bragging about the Cup winning success of the Bruins today, I'd feel a bit pathetic to arging my case with Cup championships from 36 years ago. I'm proud of the fact that I saw the two Cup wins in the early 70s, and that I saw the play of Bobby Orr, and that the Bruins still have the longest Playoff appearance streak, and I can brag about the history of the Bruins franchise.
But hey, I really think that possibly we're arguing symantics here, that there's really not a whole lot of difference in what we're saying, except that perhaps you're letting your Leaf pride color your way of expressing what you want to say, and I'm not going to criticize for having pride in your team!
This argument is going to be on your fav. team. If your a Leaf, you want history on your side, same with being an Oiler fan. If your a fan of a new team or a team that hasnt won the cup, the canucks youre going to say hell with history.
For me it makes a big difference if you were an active fan during the championship season. In 93-94 I went to a handful of reg season games and all of the viewing parties for the PO games at MSG when the Rangers were playing away. I saw game 7 of the finals at my favorite bar across from the Garden with a bunch of my buddies and remember flooding the streets post game...
The memories of the games themselves are intertwined with the personal memories and it makes a big difference. My buddy who was working abroad those years still relishes 94 but nowhere near as intensely as I do.
Here you can compare and state that Edmonton is the far superior Team.
of course an Oiler fan would use this arguement... but lets be honest no one other than Oilers fans really cares... there is no doubt the Oilers have a more storied history... but that doesn't outright make them 'far more superior'...
of course an Oiler fan would use this arguement... but lets be honest no one other than Oilers fans really cares... there is no doubt the Oilers have a more storied history... but that doesn't outright make them 'far more superior'...
Because the Flames haven't accomplished smack(Outside of that one cup).
If you haven't noticed, Cups are what determines a Teams success, the more cups, the more success.
Win 4 more cups and I'll respect you guys, other then that, you are a piece of crap team.
of course an Oiler fan would use this arguement... but lets be honest no one other than Oilers fans really cares... there is no doubt the Oilers have a more storied history... but that doesn't outright make them 'far more superior'...
OBVIOUSLY IT MAKES THEM FAR SUPERIOR, THEY HAVE FIVE TIMES AS MANY CUPS
I don't think I have bragging rights for anything "my" team does. I didn't do anything to cause them to win. I don't take pride in the efforts of others just because I hope they win.
Now I know what you're going to say. You'll say this is different because he personally earned them. You'd be right, but that's not the point. His kids would have every right to brag about their dad's accomplishments too, even if they weren't born.
