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MTL power play this year?

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Old
07-20-2008, 07:03 PM
  #51
znk
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
Kosty Jr. being the new passer to Markov. Or even Tanguay being the passer to Markov.
But Markov was the passer to Streit.

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07-20-2008, 07:03 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
This post is wrong on almost every level. This epic fail starts on "our" and doesn't end untill "..." Almost every point you've made is factually incorrect.
Like I said but not as nice or as long

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07-20-2008, 07:07 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by TheAntiprice View Post
our powerplay's definitely gonna suffer this year...Boston exposed us in the playoffs...now we have no shot from the point anymore, Markov can't/won't shoot, Tanguay can't shoot, S.Kost can't/won't shoot, it's too much to ask Hamrlik to be a catalyst on the point and still maintain his defensive game, Georges is a n00b and can't score to save his life, Obyrne is a n00b as well, Breezeby blows and should retire, Komisarek's offensive game is non-existent, Subban, Tank, Carl, Belle, Emilin, Mcdo are too young and won't make the team...basically we're screwed!

The powerplay is overrated anyways, the refs put away the whistle come spring, hopefully this will make our players better on ES, which will benefit the team in the long run...
You're wrong.
We had 55 powerplays in 12 games. It's not the refs fault we were 14% on the PP in the playoffs.

That's 4.5PP per game ....same as the regular season.

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07-20-2008, 08:10 PM
  #54
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What if, by chance, we got Sundin?

How would our PP look? Would he even be on the first unit? He'd obviously be down low but I see something like this...

Tanguay - Pleks - Kovy
Markov - AKost

Higgins - Sundin - Koivu
Hamrlik - SKost

But it would be intriguing to see the two brothers together, on the second PP. I think they legitimately could be placed on a line together, as the AK-TP-AK line could possibly be broken.

Maybe something like...
Higgins - Sundin - Kovalev
Markov - Tanguay


Latendresse (or Koivu) - Plekanec - AK46
Hamrlik - SK .. possibly Gorges, with SK moving up and bumping Latendresse up.


I think it's a very realistic possibilty, if we get Sundin, Koivu won't get PP time. He'd be a true 3rd line center, unless he could play out of position on one of the wings. I think Latendresse should be on the 2nd PP unit.

One things for sure...we obviously have the right pieces, there are so many options, we have a ton of offensive depth, it really is hard to go wrong here. I don't think Streit's going to be as big of a loss as everyone seems to think.

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07-20-2008, 08:41 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by kris View Post
What if, by chance, we got Sundin?

How would our PP look? Would he even be on the first unit? He'd obviously be down low but I see something like this...

Tanguay - Pleks - Kovy
Markov - AKost

Higgins - Sundin - Koivu
Hamrlik - SKost
I like your second unit... but put Sundin on Left wing and koivu at centre.... Higgins down low too at RW.

Sundin likes to play on the LW boards similar to how Kovalev plays on the RW boards.

Sundin

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07-20-2008, 09:52 PM
  #56
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Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure you will) but doesn't O'Byrne have a decent shot... also from what I saw last year he like the stretch pass like Streit. Maybe not for the first unit but


A Kost- Pleks - Kovalev
Markov- S Kost

Higgins-- Koivu-- Tanguay
Hamrlik-- O'Byrne

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07-20-2008, 09:56 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
This post is wrong on almost every level. This epic fail starts on "our" and doesn't end untill "..." Almost every point you've made is factually incorrect.

How are they "factually incorrect"? And how can you dismiss such subjective statement as "factually incorrect" anyhow?

In my opinion:

Boston exposed us badly in the playoffs. We never made the proper adjustments.

- Markov hasn't demonstrated the capability and more importantly the willingness to constantly fire shots off from the point over the course of a season. He'd much rather pass the puck around and occasionally sneak in for a backdoor wrist shot. Plus I feel he's the most important guy on our PP and it might not be a good idea to ask him to change his role.

- Tanguay is exactly like markov but lacks the experience, Flames fans would tell you that the last guy you'd want to have the puck on his stick when you need to get a shot off would be Alex Tanguay. He's allergic to shooting.

- S. Kost. is the same way, he has a killer slapper and a wicked wirster but he doesn't utilize them merely enough. But I feel as tho he might be our best option to replace Streit as he definitely possesses the skill necessary to be an effective power play point-man. He's still extremely young, he might not be very good at this role right away this year but over the long haul he can become deadly if we can instill a shoot first mentality in him.

- If history is any indication, IT IS too much to ask Hamrlik to do both and be effective whilst doing so and still play close to 25 minute a game. We either ask him to be a stable force on defense as he was last year, or be a catalyst on the power play. I don't want to see his defensive game suffer at the cost of few extra goals scored over the course of the season. Do you?

- Georges hasn't shown any offensive touch whatsoever, I'd be surprised if he even logged 50+ minutes on the power play last year. Quite frankly he isn't even an option at the moment. Not until he develops a respectable shot and adequate passing abilities. Which could very well happen mind you as he's still very young.

- Same story with Obyrne but even less experience. He hadn't even fully established his defensive game as of last season unlike Georges. He needs to polish that first before we ask him to do anything else.

- I don't care how nice Brisebois is, he could win a nobel peace prize and my opinion would still remain that he blows and should retire.

- Komisarek simply lacks an offensive game, but unlike the other guys, he doesn't seem to have an upside for it. He doesn't have half the skill Streit brought to the table and if you put him out there in place of Streit, you'll be lucky to get half the results Streit accumulated for the team. But I'd rather have Komi on my team over Streit any day of the week and twice on Saturdays.

- The other guys, i.e. prospects are just that. It'd be asinine to expect any of them to score 60 points for us. Realistically, none of them will probably even make the team.

- And yeah sure we got about the same amount minutes on the power play in the playoffs...but you gotta consider how much the level of physical play increases. If a team played like that against us during a regular season game, we'd get close to 16 minutes of power play time instead of the 9 we got during the playoffs.

kay, your turn...

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07-20-2008, 10:19 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAntiprice View Post
How are they "factually incorrect"? And how can you dismiss such subjective statement as "factually incorrect" anyhow?

kay, your turn...
- Markov and Streit were injured in the playoffs... that had far more to do with boston exposing us than any new or special scheme they came up with. Also Koivu's injury didn't help the second unit.

- As far as SKost and Tanguay go... One of them will start shooting, or AKost can go back to the point. Tanguay is a multi-time 25+ goal scorer... He can shoot the puck. Sergei was much more of a shooter in London, now that he is comfortable in the NHL we will see him take more shots IMO. If not I'm sure AKost can handle the shooting responsibility. Either way we have had the best PP two years in a row... we have great PP coaches in Muller and Carbo... A guy who scored a lot of points in the NHL and a guy who knows how to shut down a PP (and so can help make one work too.....

- Regardless... Markov and Kovy are the keys to the PP... People said we'd suffer when Souray left; we didn't.

- Hamrlik played PP minutes last year, its not like moving him from the second to first unit would increase his minutes played per game... why would that make his defence suffer.... This doesn't really make a lot of sense.

- Gorges and O'Byrne, I agree you can't rely on them to bring offence.

- Brisebois... you are very dismissive of him and show no respect for his years of experience back there ont the PP... As much as he has defensive liabilities, his PP experience and his ability to pass and shoot are useful on the PP... I'm sure he'll help out if he gets some games as a 7th D.

- It has been shown multiple times that the penalties in the playoffs have actually increased over the regular season in all years since the lockout. PP time is the issue... your first post made it sound like the PP doesn't matter in the playoffs because there are less PPs.... We've already proven that is incorrect... there is still the same amount of time or more spent on the PP... this totally debunks your point.

Your further point about a rougher style in the playoffs is totally inconsequential to what you said earlier... It makes no difference if the 5 on 5 play is a little bit rougher, you said we can't rely on the PP to score our goals, because there are less PPs.... this is untrure, we can still beat teams by being better than them on special teams and being a small plus at 5 on 5 (like we were last year). Sure being better 5 on 5 (which i believe we will be with Tanguay over Ryder and the continued growth of our young players) will only help us... but the PP is not a weapon that goes away in the playoffs.

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07-20-2008, 10:51 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAntiprice View Post
- Markov hasn't demonstrated the capability and more importantly the willingness to constantly fire shots

- If history is any indication, IT IS too much to ask Hamrlik to do both and be effective whilst doing so and still play close to 25 minute a game.

- Georges hasn't shown any offensive touch whatsoever,

- Same story with Obyrne but even less experience.

- Tanguay is allergic to shooting.
You DO realize Markov had more goals than Streit right?..People overvalue Streit on our PP just like they did with Souray.
Streit had 32Pts on the PP, almost half his total. The rest he mainly got as a foward.
So I don't really understand how you can say Markov hasn't shown he likes to shoot and our PP will suffer from it. He did get 16Goals.

Let me ask you this...Had Streit demonstrated his offensive capabilities prior to last season??..Not quite.
With a bunch of promising youngsters in our team, we can't say we won't be surprised. It could very well happen that one will step up and impress us once again. One thing we DO know, is that they're full of potential and have shown great things.

Gorges has shown some offensive upside, I disagree. He started joining rushes a lot more often at the end of the year. He doesn't have the crazy shot, but I think he'll surprise a lot of people with his offensive side next year.

I really don't understand how playing maybe 15sec more on each PP for Hamrlik would make him less effective on D. That really doesn't make any sense at all.

Maybe Calgary fans would say that, but Colorado fans would tell you otherwise. Allergic to shooting yet he's had seasons of 29-26-22-27-25 Goals, not bad for a guy that doesn't like to shoot. In a more defensive role, he still put up 18G 58PTS. He's only had 1 bad season in his career really.


Last edited by Kriss E: 07-20-2008 at 11:07 PM.
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07-21-2008, 12:31 AM
  #60
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Streit definitely had shown potential prior to last season, we knew he had a booming shot, but nobody expected 60+ points out of him. Obyrne and Gorges haven't shown any flashes yet, I agree that Gorges has shown that he could pinch in and join a rush from time to time but he lacks major finishing touches, even then, this won't do much good when we're talking about replacing Streit with an effective point-man, Georges can't do that...yet

And as for Markov, well he won't be replacing Streit, we need a Markov, just as we needed him these last two years when we had the top PP and he was setting up Souray and Streit. He already has an assigned role, a crucial one at that.

As I said before, previous history indicates that if given too big of a role on the offense, Hamrlik's play suffers on the other end (see Lightning, Islanders)...and to be honest, I'm not even that sure how effective he can on the 1st unit playing between Markov and Kovalev, he doesn't have the greatest of shot, he's a great outlet passer but he hasn't that offensive awareness on the power play with us yet. He's only been able to crack 50 points once in his career, personally though, I'll be very happy if he could match his last season's performance, which is to play top minute shutdown defense and cheap in with about 30 points in the season.

I definitely don't wanna see A. Kost. on the point, maybe Kosty junior but A. Kost is actually one of few guys we have who can park himself in front of the net and bang in a lot of rebounds...As for Tanguay, well I guess we'll see, he's a good candidate as he loves to pass and is pretty decent at doing it, but we need him to shoot a lot more.

And my point about the power play in the playoffs is that, teams don't kill penalties in the same fashion they do in the regular season, it's much more physical and uptight. In the playoffs imo, the teams that are good on ES do better on the power play. Skill alone won't net you a goal as it regularly does during the season. It's really apples and oranges even though it's the same five on four or what have you...

And I just want Brisebois gone enough is enough!

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07-21-2008, 12:33 AM
  #61
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he hasn't shown that*

I want my edit function back

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07-21-2008, 12:56 AM
  #62
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Andrei K is far too agile and talented with above-average vision to be left to park himself in front of the net. He has to be given a bigger role this year and to me that means half-boards QB on the 2nd unit or Markov's trigger man.

Also, for what it's worth, Souray has only topped 50 pts once.

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07-21-2008, 01:51 AM
  #63
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Anyone with an average shot should be OK. Brisebois could easily reach the 50pts milestone with Markov and Kovy.

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07-21-2008, 01:54 AM
  #64
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Brisebois could easily reach the 50pts milestone with Markov and Kovy.
I politefully disagree

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07-21-2008, 02:06 AM
  #65
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I politefully disagree
Baseball ------>

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07-21-2008, 08:34 AM
  #66
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As far as Hamrlik on the lightning and Islanders... that was a lot younger and inexperienced Hammer than what we see today, I think thats the biggest difference in his defence, not the PP time.

Like i said, he had plenty of second unit PP time last year, the first unit would only give him slightly more time this year if he's put there.

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07-21-2008, 08:48 AM
  #67
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Originally Posted by The Dream Team View Post
who will assume Streit's PP position/numbers this yr (similar to how Streit assumed Souray's role last yr)?

Roman Hamrlik!!!
I hope Hammer gets some time on the top powerplay unit. He has a great shot and would be a good fit IMO.

The only problem is that if he gets too much extra icetime....it might start to effect his defensive game and thats not something we want to happen. He is our best defencemen by far and we need him playing at the top of his game.

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07-21-2008, 10:09 AM
  #68
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Tanguay-Plekanec-Kovalev
Markov - A. Kostitsyn

Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Hamrlik - S. Kostitsyn
I like these, except Hammer is a L shot so he'd probably swap sides with SK, assuming he's the trigger man. I would also try Hammer/Markov on the top unit, and the Kosty bros. on the 2nd unit. I'm not a huge fan of dressing 5 forwards on a PP unit, but the rest of our Ds aren't exactly PP studs. I suppose it's likely at this point that Brisebois is brought back, and if he is I expect he'll get PP time when he plays. I might try Komisarek's shot from the point every now and then too. I don't think he'd light the lamp much, but he can do a lot of other good things on the PP. It might help him develop his offensive game a little too, which would be nice.

I think that wanting Markov to play the role of triggerman on the PP is just insane. The reason the PP has worked so well in recent history is his puck distribution from the point, mixed with Kovalev on the right boards and a big shot at the right point, which helped draw some coverage away from Kovalev. Markov's got an ok shot, but it's not exactly that howitzer from the point that draws extra coverage like Souray's was. Markov is far more valuable as the QB.

I got into this earlier in the offseason with some people, but I'll never understand why anyone wants Gorges on the PP. The guy has 23 points in 188 NHL games. 1 goal. I don't think he has the shot or the distribution skills to cut it on the PP.

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07-21-2008, 10:21 AM
  #69
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Andrei K is far too agile and talented with above-average vision to be left to park himself in front of the net. He has to be given a bigger role this year and to me that means half-boards QB on the 2nd unit or Markov's trigger man.

Also, for what it's worth, Souray has only topped 50 pts once.
The thing is though, Andrei K is one of the few guys that has the size, strength and willingness to get to the front of the net and take abuse.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
I like these, except Hammer is a L shot so he'd probably swap sides with SK, assuming he's the trigger man. I would also try Hammer/Markov on the top unit, and the Kosty bros. on the 2nd unit. I'm not a huge fan of dressing 5 forwards on a PP unit, but the rest of our Ds aren't exactly PP studs. I suppose it's likely at this point that Brisebois is brought back, and if he is I expect he'll get PP time when he plays. I might try Komisarek's shot from the point every now and then too. I don't think he'd light the lamp much, but he can do a lot of other good things on the PP. It might help him develop his offensive game a little too, which would be nice.

I think that wanting Markov to play the role of triggerman on the PP is just insane. The reason the PP has worked so well in recent history is his puck distribution from the point, mixed with Kovalev on the right boards and a big shot at the right point, which helped draw some coverage away from Kovalev. Markov's got an ok shot, but it's not exactly that howitzer from the point that draws extra coverage like Souray's was. Markov is far more valuable as the QB.

I got into this earlier in the offseason with some people, but I'll never understand why anyone wants Gorges on the PP. The guy has 23 points in 188 NHL games. 1 goal. I don't think he has the shot or the distribution skills to cut it on the PP.

Agreed on Gorges, the thing that made him an NHL regular is keeping this simple and playing a stay at home game. The last thing I'd want is for him to start thinking he is an offensive guy.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-21-2008 at 04:59 PM.
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07-21-2008, 11:33 AM
  #70
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I wouldn't really try to make lines for next year's PP..


Most likely, Markov and Kovalev will do double shifts on the PP like they often did last year.


And Hammer should be able to do just what we need him to. He won't do goals but he's probably the best in the team to put the puck on the net (he does it often from his own zone..)

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07-21-2008, 11:49 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by TheAntiprice View Post

- Georges hasn't shown any offensive touch whatsoever, I'd be surprised if he even logged 50+ minutes on the power play last year. Quite frankly he isn't even an option at the moment. Not until he develops a respectable shot and adequate passing abilities. Which could very well happen mind you as he's still very young
Ok I will cover the points that havent been covered already.

First of all I'm not sure how you can say Georges isnt a good passer...
and also Its not hard to install a shotting aditude in a player. Tell him on the PP his job is to one time pucks on the net, its not like its some huge leap to have an awesome pass first player like Sergei to rip one timers on the PP.

Also his passing and creativity would help the PP as I though Streit was often times too much of a shoot first guy and would sometimes waste possesion with a poorly timed shot. I remember plays where we struggle to set up and then finally Kovalev gets it on the half board as guys set up, he gets a little pressure passes up to Streit (hoping for a pass back, or a pass to markov) and Streit just fired it on net, into opposing bodies.

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07-21-2008, 12:46 PM
  #72
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Well, we have all of training camp, and even into the season, to figure this out. Assuming 2 PP lines, we have 10 spots open for people. Here's what we have:

Kovalev
Markov
Koivu
AKost
SKost
Pleks
Tanguay
Higgins
Hamrlik

There's 9 guys. If we sign Sundin, then we're basically booked. Lats might fill one role.

Personally, I have a feeling that Gorges will make it to the PP. Looking at his stats, one year for Kelowna he put up more than a point per game. So, he has had some offensive talents, but he hasn't brought those to the NHL yet.

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07-21-2008, 01:02 PM
  #73
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I'm gonna say something here that some people may or may not agree with, but here goes.
I could care less about how our powerplay does to be honest!!!
I would much rather be a better team 5 on 5 than to worry if our powerplay is gonna be #1 again this season for the 3rd year in a row!! We are still going to have a top 10 powerplay dispite losing Streit so who cares about the powerplay.

We are weak 5 on 5 and we can't be relying on powerplays to win hockey games for us. Last season we made big improvements 5 on 5, but we still needed our powerplay to score our goals at times last season.....and thats no good....powerplays shouldn't be something that you count on to score goals....you need to be good at even strength too. You don't always get powerplays when you need them and if your down by 2 goals late in the game, its nice to be good at even strength so you can possibly tie the game up.

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07-21-2008, 01:03 PM
  #74
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I'm not worried about our powerplay. Because, healthy Tanguay (hes had some trouble with his sinuses when playing at Rockies altitudes?) logging close to 20 minutes will make Habs better team five on five. Little like replacing Souray with Hamrlik did.

If were only talking 2-3% drop on PP we should be ok.

PS. I was just typing that when Puckhead posted the above.

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07-21-2008, 01:53 PM
  #75
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I think we should put the Kostitsyn brothers on the same unit. Anyone else remember Andrei setting up in Kovalev's spot and dishing that perfect backdoor pass to Sergei?

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