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Slats' Head-scratching Summer

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Old
07-20-2008, 04:19 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jas View Post
Jeezus, Ryan's not even in the organization anymore. And, no, Dupont and Pyatt are CLEARLY not ready...bad job by the Rangers...everyone knows that every prospect needs only one year in the AHL, or he's no good. As for Byers and Moore, who's to say they don't force the Rangers to move Betts or Rissmiller. Hutchinson got sent to the AHL last year.

And, again, why does every journalist associated with this team not TRULY grasp what took place in 2004 and what's gone on since then. The Jagr years were the bridge out of the darkness. The Rangers caught lightning in a bottle in 2005-6. And, tried to capitalize on that core while they had the chance. The difference now is that this team is NOT built around Naslund. He's just a player who can provide production while fitting a role on this team...NOT having the whole offense bent to his whim...and not at a cost of $7 million or so, for 3 more years, which Jagr has stated that he wanted and KNEW the Rangers were in no position to give him.

As for Kalinin...the Rangers JUST went out and got a 23-year-old player with the talent to become a major star. It's clear that Zherdev has needed veteran Russians around him to feel more part of the team. $2.1 million in order to get the best out of the most talented offensive player you have is a smart investment, IMO.

And, as usual, everyone seems to think that the opening night roster is the one that becomes set in stone for the season. If anything, wouldn't writers and fans alike realize that rosters evolve over the course of the season, (especially after watching this team the past three years)? Just an awful job by Brooks.
I'm just going to quote your post, since it pretty much sums up my feelings to a tee.

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Old
07-20-2008, 07:19 PM
  #27
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Brooks is a clown.

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07-20-2008, 09:17 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by shoothepuck View Post
Brooks is a clown.
But, the joke's on everyone who read the article. And name one other paper that actually publishes articles on hockey during the summer on a regular basis--even when there's no new news. If Brooks didn't exist someone else would take his place--or, more likely given preceived lack of interest in hockey during baseball season, no one else to read from mid-July to training camp.

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07-20-2008, 09:24 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Brooklyn Ranger View Post
But, the joke's on everyone who read the article. And name one other paper that actually publishes articles on hockey during the summer on a regular basis--even when there's no new news. If Brooks didn't exist someone else would take his place.
bingo.

reading an opinion from brooks---and one has to admit that he did make light of it at the end of the whole read---is like trying to eat hot food straight from the kitchen. one knows one should wait for it to cool down sufficiently but instead we dive right in...and burn our mouths every time.

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07-20-2008, 09:24 PM
  #30
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Brooks gets his job done...

but his job is to report and analyze. He can only go on information that's in front of him, or he believes to be true. If the season started today, I think I'd be scratching my head also. But it's not starting today and it's not really time to scratch my head. Should Brooks stop writing until October? Don't fault him for writing articles about a team with many questions at this point.

Summer's not over yet. The season hasn't yet begun. This is not a finished product by any means (or at least I don't think it is). We can criticize moves to this point, or we can applaud them, but of course each move was made because it was the move available, and hopefully it fits into an overall plan. Perhaps that plan means rationalize some positions - getting rid of dead wood and redundant players at some point. When criticizing, or applauding, keep that in mind. This team is a work in progress. It has been significantly overhauled, which makes it very difficult for early season success unless everything goes right. This will be an interesting board in November when the team gets off to a slow start because there's little continuity from last season, which is inevitable. Can't wait. Actually, with more 90+ degree days, I really can't wait.

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Old
07-20-2008, 10:19 PM
  #31
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Brooks is garbage, in my opinion. Him mentioning Ryan was where I stopped reading.

I'll admit there are questions about what sort of team we're going to have next season, but Sather's post-lockout moves have worked out well, I trust the guy with what he's done this offseason.

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07-20-2008, 10:53 PM
  #32
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I stopped reading at:

Quote:
and doesn't it seem as if the Rangers are back to where they were before the lockout, bribing overpriced free agents to come to New York?
And the answer to his question is: NO, this is the youngest New York Rangers roster since the 89-90 squad.

A far cry from the over-the-hill rosters that we had seen over the last decade+.

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Old
07-20-2008, 11:18 PM
  #33
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At many points in the offseason, I might have agreed with this article because I had no clue what Slats was doing, but by now his plan is clear and transforming the team into a younger and faster version that doesn't have a sometimes unreliable crutch to fall back on was something that needed to be done. That said, I do still whole-heartedly agree with one thing he wrote and that is Orpik. Redden and Rozsival are the same type of defenseman and when it comes down to it there was no need to sign both, especially when we are going to have to pay Staal. If I were Sather, I would have offered Rozsival's deal to Orpik (afaik, he did reject a little extra from us but that would have been nearly a million more per year which I think he would have had a hard time rejecting) and given us a Beukeboom-esque player which we have needed sorely since, well, Beukeboom. Another point Brooks touched on was Avery. He is wrong that Rissmiller was the difference because if we were to sub in Avery at 4 million for Rissmiller then we are obviously over the cap. But hypothetically, if you sign Avery at 4 and Orpik at 4.5 over Redden at 6.5 and Rissmiller and Voros at 1 each, then the team is greatly improved in my eyes and that is something I would have done. I realize I am first saying Orpik should have gotten 5 and then cutting it down to 4.5 but this is all wishful thinking.

While I would have done that, I understand why Sather didn't and I won't begrudge him that. It's risky to assume Avery never cracks in one place for 5 and a half years and I'd be surprised if he didn't (and this is coming from a big Avery fan). I loved the team with Jagr and Avery and while they didn't HAVE to go, we didn't win the cup with them and I understand the new direction we are taking which is WHY they went. But the one thing that I will continue to scratch my head over from this offseason is signing Rozsy for 5 million and then a similar player (who hopefully is a slight upgrade) in Redden for 6.5 while completely ignoring the need for a physical crease-clearer in Orpik. I think Staal-Redden, Orpik-Girardi, Kalinin-Mara would have easily been the best defense in the East and second only to Detroit overall, but truthfully Orpik to Rozsival is not a giant step down (and I am probably the biggest Orpik fan outside of Pittsburgh). I'm still crushed that we didn't address that need but we know what we have if nothing else in Rozsy and hopefully now that he doesn't have Jagr to appease, he will unleash his shot more often and have me eating a lot of crow as the season goes on. And since I can thus imagine Sather's only move that pissed me off working out, I'm happy to give him a thumbs up on a good offseason and hopefully rescuing the team from a dormant offense.

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Old
07-21-2008, 03:20 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by squishy View Post
I've watched the kids in Hartford, I know what we have there, and no one will convince me that we don't have home-grown talent that can fill the roles that Sjostrom, Rissmiller, Vorros, and Fritsche will fill this season.
Why are you assuming that the kids WON'T play over the likes of Rissmiller, Sjostrom, Voros and Fritsche? Rissmiller adds little to the team other than size, and that he doesn't use all that well from what I've read. I see no reason why Byers can't beat him out for a spot. Korpikoski could win a spot over Prucha, Sjostrom, Voros or Fritsche.

But the Rangers aren't going to just hand a spot to a prospect. The player has to earn it. If they are the better player, they will play. Why is that so hard for people to understand? Do you really expect the Rangers to bring 20 NHL players and 3 kids to camp every year? What if they do that and the kids aren't ready?

The roster today does not equal the roster on opening night, and that does not equal the roster at the trade deadline. It's always a work in progress. Just because we have extra players doesn't mean there's no room for the kids, now or during the year. If they are the better player, room will be made.

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Old
07-21-2008, 03:34 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
So you think if Byers or Moore have a better camp then Rissmiller or Betts that the veterans will be waived? I'm not hear to defend the Rissmiller signing but NO WAY do the Rangers put that much stock into what happens in camp...NO WAY..

Hutchinson was also on a deeper team...AND...he wasn't signed to a $1M contract...totally diffrent scenarios you are attempting to compare....
We also sent Kaspar down last year, and he was making over $3 million. $1 million is nothing. Would $700K make everyone feel better? Honestly? The Rangers have deep pockets, they can afford to pay AHL players more than they deserve. What matters is the cap and only the cap.

So yes, if Byers and Moore are better than Rissmiller and Betts, then Rissmiller and Betts will be waived or traded. The fact that Rissmiller is making $1 million actually hurts him, since if Byers can give an equal or better contribution the Rangers will go with the cheaper and younger player.

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Old
07-21-2008, 05:07 PM
  #36
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signing a UFA to $1MM per season, and for three season, typically means he will have the benefit of the doubt for the first 20 games. After that, there's a chance for a kid, provided there isn't someone already waiting in the wings to step in (the 13th and 14th forwards). But, let's see where this roster goes.

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Old
07-21-2008, 05:18 PM
  #37
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Redden and Rozsival are the same type of defenseman and when it comes down to it there was no need to sign both, especially when we are going to have to pay Staal. If I were Sather, I would have offered Rozsival's deal to Orpik (afaik, he did reject a little extra from us but that would have been nearly a million more per year which I think he would have had a hard time rejecting) and given us a Beukeboom-esque player which we have needed sorely since, well, Beukeboom.
I miss Jeff Beukeboom as much as the next guy, but Rozsival >>> Orpik. Yes, Orpik had an excellent playoffs, but prior to them, a comparison of Orpik to Rozsival would've gotten you laughed out of the room. Rozsival isn't perfect, but he has been our #1 defenseman for the past 3 years, a significantly better pedigree than Orpik brings.

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Old
07-21-2008, 05:33 PM
  #38
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Rozy may be better than Orpik, his offense making up the difference, but perhaps one should ask if Rozy + Orpik plus a couple million dollars in cap space is better than Rozy and Redden. Would Orpik have been that stay-at-home time on the top line who could've enabled Rozy to jump up in the play more? Would the Rangers have touted two very sound defensive units in Rozy-Orpik and Girardi-Staal for years to come, providing a balance of defense, puck-moving ability and a physical edge? Both units can competently go against other teams' top lines. Just a thought.


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Old
07-21-2008, 06:43 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
signing a UFA to $1MM per season, and for three season, typically means he will have the benefit of the doubt for the first 20 games. After that, there's a chance for a kid, provided there isn't someone already waiting in the wings to step in (the 13th and 14th forwards). But, let's see where this roster goes.
If you're referring to Rissmiller, he's only signed to 1 year.

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Old
07-21-2008, 06:47 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
Would Orpik have been that stay-at-home time on the top line who could've enabled Rozy to jump up in the play more?
I don't think that Rosy is the type to jump up in the play that much more than he has shown so far.

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Old
07-21-2008, 07:16 PM
  #41
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Avery turned down a 4 year deal from NYR?

Any truth to this?

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nyr080720.html

if this IS true, then Avery is a d***bag.

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Old
07-22-2008, 12:38 AM
  #42
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Loved the article. Just showing how pissed you guys are getting tells me he's saying things you don't wanna hear or believe because they could be true. Damn Mats Sundin, make up your mind already! I want to see what my hockey team will look like in the fall.

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Old
07-22-2008, 12:40 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by BlueHavoc View Post
Any truth to this?

http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/nyr080720.html

if this IS true, then Avery is a d***bag.
i heard 3.35 per year.

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Old
07-22-2008, 12:52 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
i heard 3.35 per year.
Sather played the whole thing as a ****** bag like he always does. A GM who wants to keep a player doesn't go out and say I'm not offering any contracts till 7/1. And from what I "hear" Sather wasn't really banging down JJ or Avery's door. Either way as gm I would pay extra for Avery and pass on some of these guys he's signed. Brooks made some great points in that article.

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Old
07-22-2008, 01:44 AM
  #45
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people complaining that the yutes arent getting a fair shot to make the team arent looking at the team as it is constructed....

betts(28)
callahan(23)
fritsche(23)
zherdev(23)
dawes(23)
drury(31)
dubinsky(22)
girardi(24)
gomez(28)
kalinin(28)
lundqvist(26)
mara(28)
orr(26)
prucha(25)
redden(31)
rissmiller(29)
rozsival(29)
staal(21)
voros(27)
sjostrom(25)
valliquette(31)
naslund(35)

all of these numbers according to nhl.com

considering the kind of talent the rangers have in that lineup and how young much of that talent is(staal, zherdev, dubinsky, girardi, dawes, gomez, rozsival, lundqvist) i think the rangers are doing it the right way with their prospects....they allow them opportunities to succeed but dont rush them so they ruin their confidence

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Old
07-22-2008, 08:56 AM
  #46
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I guess at first blush, the biggest thing that I wonder about is there seemed to be an awful lot of redundancy with Slats move.

Rozsival AND Redden?

Voros AND Rismiller?

Kalinin AND Mara?

And those are on top of guys who are already here like Korpikoski, Callahan, Moore. And guys that the are in the system.

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Old
07-22-2008, 09:14 AM
  #47
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Finally, does anyone sense that Slap Shots has major issues with Sather's performance since the end of the playoffs.
I've got to agree with that, I have those issues as well. It is clear that Slats decided to kill Jagr's team and start building Russian Rangers this season. Thus, no Avery, no Shanahan. It will all depend on how ready is Anisymov. If he is, then Sather may be successful it tearing this team down. If not, then the upcoming season would be a huge disappointment. Cherepanov-Anisymov-Zherdev should be a killer 1st at some point in time. Better sooner then later.

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07-22-2008, 09:16 AM
  #48
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You guys need to take off your homer glasses because Brooks isnt saying anyone here hasn't been.

The contract given out to redden was beyond ridiculous, signing both redden and rosizval makes no sense, the rangers will be in cap trouble for the next five years, there is no money to pay our own soon to be restricted free agents.

this was a head scratching off season, and all of you should be able to admit it--especially considering that redden was horrible last year, and now due to the limited no trade clause and horrible contract we are likely stuck with him for six years

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07-22-2008, 09:22 AM
  #49
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You guys need to take off your homer glasses because Brooks isnt saying anyone here hasn't been.

The contract given out to redden was beyond ridiculous, signing both redden and rosizval makes no sense, the rangers will be in cap trouble for the next five years, there is no money to pay our own soon to be restricted free agents.

this was a head scratching off season, and all of you should be able to admit it--especially considering that redden was horrible last year, and now due to the limited no trade clause and horrible contract we are likely stuck with him for six years
Homer glasses are here to stay.

BTW, Gomez and Drury may become tradeable as inflation goes on. I woun't be surprised seeing one of the two gone, say, by the next March.

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Old
07-22-2008, 09:42 AM
  #50
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sorry - at risk being called an idiot at this site. I agree with Larry Brooks 100 pct.

I am fed up with Slats being whitewashed of all responsability.

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