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Old
07-22-2008, 10:17 AM
  #51
BrianLeetch2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He still has to catch the ball with more consistency.
very true...it still goes back to him playing and not being injured or even being injured while he plays....he has played trhu so many injurys that he really was hardly ever 100 percent lol...but i agree way to inconsistent

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07-22-2008, 10:33 AM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
Not so sure. Not many of those sacks come from the end. And Tuck seems to be most effective when he's moved up and down the line as a sort of rover.
Tuck is the most versatile player their Giants have on D, moreso than Umeniyora.

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07-22-2008, 10:35 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
very true...it still goes back to him playing and not being injured or even being injured while he plays....he has played trhu so many injurys that he really was hardly ever 100 percent lol...but i agree way to inconsistent
I think there has to be caution when you say he needs to stay healthy. He might very well, never be 100% healthy. He's already not the player he was when he came into the league. What really is the shelf-life of a TE?

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07-22-2008, 10:36 AM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Poozer View Post
Tuck is the most versatile player their Giants have on D, moreso than Umeniyora.
I agree with you. That's why I don't think its a given the Tuck automatically becomes the other DE.

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07-22-2008, 10:44 AM
  #55
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Here's a good blog on the replacement of Strahan: http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/2008/07/21...shockey-trade/

Quote:
The other — and probably more interesting and productive — way to consider the issue is to weigh more broadly how, in Strahan’s absence, an effective pass rush and run defense can be assembled. It’s not as though Giants Head Coach Tom Coughlin and Defensive Coordinator Steve Spagnuolo are hurting for raw material. Even without Strahan, Big Blue’s collection of front-seven players is the envy of most other NFL teams.

In addition to Tuck and Kiwanuka, the other pieces available to slide into the puzzle begin, of course, with Osi Umenyiora. Those 3, the G-men’s 3 best pass rushers, are the key defenders. The group of players available to complement and support them includes Fred Robbins, Barry Cofield, Jay Alford, Antonio Pierce, Gerris Wilkinson, Danny Clark, and Tollefson. And, possibly, big, fast second-year LB Zak DeOssie, if he can lay claim to a meaningful role.
Regarding the potential draft picks for '09, it's possible that we wind up with a first rounder in 2010, according to Ralph Vacciano over at The Blue Screen:

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Well, back in February, the Saints shipped Vilma to the Jets for a fourth-round pick in the 2008 draft and a conditional second- or third-rounder in 2009. According to the conditions of the trade, if Vilma plays in 85 percent of the defensive plays this season and signs a contract extension with the team, the ‘09 pick would be in the second round.

Since that’s the same second-rounder the Saints included in their deal with the Giants, when they agreed to ship a second- and a fifth-rounder in 2009 for Shockey, they obviously wouldn’t be able to complete that deal as is. So instead, they’d have to ship their 2010 first-round pick to the Giants.
As Ralph points out further along, it's a long shot, but it's possible.

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07-22-2008, 10:44 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I agree with you. That's why I don't think its a given the Tuck automatically becomes the other DE.
Kiwi also had great success as a DE as well....it will be interesting

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07-22-2008, 10:46 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
Kiwi also had great success as a DE as well....it will be interesting
That's my point. I don't think Kiwi is as versatile as Tuck. So let Kiwi do what he did when he was drafted. And let Tuck roam.

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07-22-2008, 10:48 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think there has to be caution when you say he needs to stay healthy. He might very well, never be 100% healthy. He's already not the player he was when he came into the league. What really is the shelf-life of a TE?
well caution but he still needs to be healthy or you wont get his full capable production

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07-22-2008, 10:48 AM
  #59
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getting a first would be amazing

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07-22-2008, 10:51 AM
  #60
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well caution but he still needs to be healthy or you wont get his full capable production
And I don't think the Saints will.

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07-22-2008, 10:52 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
Here's a good blog on the replacement of Strahan: http://mvn.com/nfl-giants/2008/07/21...shockey-trade/



Regarding the potential draft picks for '09, it's possible that we wind up with a first rounder in 2010, according to Ralph Vacciano over at The Blue Screen:



As Ralph points out further along, it's a long shot, but it's possible.
the only thing that sucks is the saints control what happenes in each of those cituations

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07-22-2008, 11:22 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianLeetch2 View Post
well caution but he still needs to be healthy or you wont get his full capable production
The shelf of TE can't be much more than 6-7 years, especially one that seeks contact as much as Shock. Also, his biggest physical issue are his feet, and just ask Peter Forsberg how hard it is to play with bad wheels. My guess is they get 2 years and 28 games out of him before his production really bottoms out.

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07-22-2008, 12:18 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forechecker View Post
The shelf of TE can't be much more than 6-7 years, especially one that seeks contact as much as Shock. Also, his biggest physical issue are his feet, and just ask Peter Forsberg how hard it is to play with bad wheels. My guess is they get 2 years and 28 games out of him before his production really bottoms out.
totally agree and thats why this deal was a great move

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07-22-2008, 12:23 PM
  #64
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I wonder how many Shockey jerseys are being sold on ebay right now...probably more than the Jagr & Avery ones

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07-22-2008, 03:56 PM
  #65
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Speaking of Kiwanuka, I'm excited to see him opposite Umeniora on the line. Kiwanuka has the speed of a wide receiver and a huge wingspan. I think he's going to be the new talk of the League next year. However, what Strahan has brought to the line was the rush-stopping ability from the end. There aren't a lot of of ends who can be dangerous in disrupting both the run and rush the QB. That will be missed, but it was inevitable.

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07-23-2008, 08:27 PM
  #66
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While Kiawanuka is not as versatile as Tuck, we are comparing Apples to Oranges here. Kiwi has proven very capable at end and started to come around at LB before the injury.Tuck has proven more capable and dangerous at DE than DT, though very solid at DT.

Where I think the Giants will end up is with Alford and Cofield jamming up the middle, both have proven solid against the run & fast enough to get after the QB as well, with Osi and Tuck coming off the end, and Kiwi, especially after the loss of Mitchell, playing in a hybrid roll. Setting up to come up the middle or off the corner on a blitz or dropping back into coverage depending on the play call. Which is what was starting to come together before he got hurt.

The reason why I say apples to oranges is two fold: 1) Kiwi could never play the interior on the D line, he's just too tall & lanky and the O line would get under him and knock him on his ass easily 2) As fast as Tuck is he would be hard pressed to drop into coverage (zone or man) or go sideline to sideline which is required for any LB. Granted he can get down the line when there is containment, but I don't think he's fast enough to play LB. So trying to compare the two just isn't fair based on physique and skill set.
In any case I think the Giants are in pretty good shape defensively.

The loss of Shockey is a plus IMO. One me first guy is enough to drive any QB nuts, two is really tough to handle, which is what we had with Shock & Plax.
In the case of Plax he's earned the right to ***** when his number isn't called without a doubt. You throw the ball his way he comes down with it 95% of the time.
Shockey *****ed when the ball wasn't thrown his way and when it was thrown his way there were more than a few important occasions when he didn't.

How can any QB go to the sideline and hear from two recievers that they "HAVE" to get the ball? It's bad enough knowing that you have anywhere from 3 to 5 recievers on the field at any given time, but to hear from at least half of those recievers that "THEY" should have gotten the ball would drive anyone crazy. Plax came down with more big catches then Shockey end of story.

The key to me was week in and week out hearing about getting both Jeremy and Plaxico into a game early, but you are throwing the ball a finite number of times and Plax had proven more proficient at catching whatever was thrown his way then Shockey. Ego played such a huge role in this decision, there can only be one true "Go to Guy" and I'll lay my money on Plaxico over Shockey any day of the week.

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07-23-2008, 10:35 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
I think there has to be caution when you say he needs to stay healthy. He might very well, never be 100% healthy. He's already not the player he was when he came into the league. What really is the shelf-life of a TE?

Shockeys play dropped off a bit in year 2, by year 3 it seemed like he was losing more & more every year, his speed wasn't the same, his hands got smaller & his mouth & ego became bigger.

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