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Old
07-22-2008, 08:49 AM
  #51
Fletch
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Singn'..

tons of redundancy...with Redden, they tried to get a top pair guy to fit into the system while also getting a guy on the left point not named Mara. That left point has been a sore spot since...Leetch?

Chosen - come to think of it, Malik seemed more apt to go in deep than Rozy, although Rozy did go in occasionally for a shot, but yeah, that was occasionally.

viper - seems as though the Rangers are getting younger - and given the roster, youth will have to play more ice time than last season. Look at last season: the forwards with the most ice time (top 5) were over 30. Avery was #6, almost 5 minutes less than the top forward and nearly 3 minutes from the #5 forward. Defense was a different story since the team was young. I believe Malik was the oldest defenseman, and he did get a full allocation of ice time, with nearly 20 minutes without PP time. Rozsival (almost 30?) and the second oldest defenseman was the clear ice time winner with 3+ more minutes that Girardi.

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07-22-2008, 08:58 AM
  #52
Trxjw
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Originally Posted by cmdevisser View Post
You guys need to take off your homer glasses because Brooks isnt saying anyone here hasn't been.

The contract given out to redden was beyond ridiculous, signing both redden and rosizval makes no sense, the rangers will be in cap trouble for the next five years, there is no money to pay our own soon to be restricted free agents.

this was a head scratching off season, and all of you should be able to admit it--especially considering that redden was horrible last year, and now due to the limited no trade clause and horrible contract we are likely stuck with him for six years


Having that many spare parts can look like a cap disaster, but it can also mean we have a backup in place if things go sour. What is the likelihood of Rozy and Redden both having miserable seasons? Chances are one of them will outplay the other and one will be dangled at the trade deadline or possibly on draft day. One man's trash is another man's treasure. Some team could be desperate for a two-way d-man like Rozy or Redden and would be willing to move down in the draft to acquire one of them.

Just because Rozy and Redden are signed to long, expensive contracts, doesn't mean there isn't another team out there that would want them. There are a lot of ways this season could play out, but not all of them end in a top-5 draft pick. We have a lot of assets, which is never a bad thing.

Redden's contract is bad now, but if he has a bounce back year, his contract starts to look like good deal. As the cap continues to go up, so do the salaries. Players signed at awful contracts 2 years ago, are now starting to look like bargains.

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07-22-2008, 09:34 AM
  #53
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No matter when "dangled", Redden's contract will make him untradeable - thats the problem. And if he's worth taking on $-wise then we won't want to trade him.

On the topic at hand, Brooks is either in love or pissed at something. He loves to stir the pot and get people talking about his work.

That said, we are not two weeks from training camp and a lot can happen before then.

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07-22-2008, 10:24 AM
  #54
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No matter when "dangled", Redden's contract will make him untradeable - thats the problem. And if he's worth taking on $-wise then we won't want to trade him.
You can assume that's the case, but that doesn't make it true. We obviously weren't the only team willing to overpay for him, otherwise his contract wouldn't be so high.

Point being, if Redden earns his paycheck and you need to free up space, you trade Rozsival. If Redden flops, you trade him for less than you'd hope to a team that needs defense and Keep Rozsival around.

Hell, TB managed to trade Boyle for a decent package and he makes even more money than Redden while being completely inept in his own end. Campbell can't play defense worth a damn and he makes 7.1 million. Maybe a team like Detriot or Dallas who's best d-man is pushing 40 might want to clear up some room for a veteran presence on the blue line when their #1 leaves for retirement. You could even waive Redden if things got really bad. We didn't give up any assets to get him, so it wouldn't be a total loss.

I'm getting tired of people assuming there is no positive outlook for this team. That's not directed at you zesty, just a general gripe with the board lately.

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07-22-2008, 10:53 AM
  #55
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in a couple seasons, if the cap increases by, say 10%, Redden may not look all that expensive compared to what other defensemen in the market are getting. That's one thing to hope for. Of course, at some point the cap will stabilize, which is when some contracts will begin to look even worse.

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07-22-2008, 11:17 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
You can assume that's the case, but that doesn't make it true. We obviously weren't the only team willing to overpay for him, otherwise his contract wouldn't be so high.

Point being, if Redden earns his paycheck and you need to free up space, you trade Rozsival. If Redden flops, you trade him for less than you'd hope to a team that needs defense and Keep Rozsival around.

Hell, TB managed to trade Boyle for a decent package and he makes even more money than Redden while being completely inept in his own end. Campbell can't play defense worth a damn and he makes 7.1 million. Maybe a team like Detriot or Dallas who's best d-man is pushing 40 might want to clear up some room for a veteran presence on the blue line when their #1 leaves for retirement. You could even waive Redden if things got really bad. We didn't give up any assets to get him, so it wouldn't be a total loss.

I'm getting tired of people assuming there is no positive outlook for this team. That's not directed at you zesty, just a general gripe with the board lately.

I think alot of people are just getting sick of Sather's knee jerk reactions to what happened the previous season, and signing vets to LTC's when we do have kids in the waiting that look kind of promising. I mean look what he has done the past two offseason's.

07 offseason - we lost to Buffalo and it was obvious we needed 1 more center to carry the 2nd line. We go after Gomez or Drury but wind up getting both for bad deals. Even though both were good players there was no need to sign both, and in fact signing both made the team worse b/c we were forced to give up Nylander and Cullen. Now b/c of them signed we must change around philosophy to suit there needs. No chemistry between the team ensues the following season.

08 offseason - b/c of past offseason team is in full change of scenary mode. We needed more defensive help which was obvious. Result we go after 2 overpriced FA again and sign them to high $ LTC again. We only needed to sign one of Rosy or Redden and certainly not both for LTC's. Again we strap ourselves of money this year and are forced to trade away Tyutin and backman. For two players who we hope can fulfill their potential. We sign two 4th liners to $1mil contracts b/c we need size, thus maybe blocking kids in HFD from moving up. Than we sign Naslund to a 2 yr deal w/ a NMC. Now we have to once again re-do every single line and hope to god there is some chemistry. Once again we lock ourselves into dangerous contracts. We are still missing a true first line center, and winger. We are hoping that our 2a, 2b, and 2c lines can overcompensate for the lack of a true first line. Sather has not followed his rebuilding plan as we have too many LTC's for too much money, and again is right up against the cap. Also all LTC's have some type of movement clause in it further restricting what we can do. If this team lacks chemistry like last year we will be in full disaster mode.

And truthfully nobody on this board knows if we will find that chemistry, or also knows w t f is going through Sathers head. He is going back to the old paradigm of trying to get the big name free agent to plug in holes. Gomez, Drury, Redden, Nazzy. he made a mistake last offseason and now is compounding it w/ making more mistakes in hope that he can cover up the ones last year.

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07-22-2008, 11:28 AM
  #57
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honestly I think the moves made this offseason reflect the kind of team we wanted to be last season. a deep team, that is multi-dimensional offensively, and create with each of the top three lines. considering the money thrown at other D-men, the only glaring problem I have with the Redden deal is the length of the contract. the only issues I have are the Voros and Rissmiller signings. their roles could (and should) be filled with kids in hartford. but I suppose it can be looked at as an insurance policy. with Prucha, Dawes, Dubinsky, and Callahan all being called on to produce more, and be more integral parts of the team than they were last season, you could say this team, as opposed to last season's team already has a pretty significant influx of youth, even if an actual call up isnt made.

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07-22-2008, 11:45 AM
  #58
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honestly I think the moves made this offseason reflect the kind of team we wanted to be last season. a deep team, that is multi-dimensional offensively, and create with each of the top three lines. considering the money thrown at other D-men, the only glaring problem I have with the Redden deal is the length of the contract. the only issues I have are the Voros and Rissmiller signings. their roles could (and should) be filled with kids in hartford. but I suppose it can be looked at as an insurance policy. with Prucha, Dawes, Dubinsky, and Callahan all being called on to produce more, and be more integral parts of the team than they were last season, you could say this team, as opposed to last season's team already has a pretty significant influx of youth, even if an actual call up isnt made.
and I think it was all reactionary b/c Sather never dreamed that neither Gomez nor Drury wouldn't mesh well w/ jagr. he is now paying for his gross miscalculation and scrambling to cover it up w/ other signings and trades.

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07-22-2008, 11:53 AM
  #59
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Rags...

I still believe that either Drury or Gomez would've meshed well with Jags if given more time. I've convinced myself, and nobody else, that Renney wanted the four centermen he had and the best mix would have Drury and Gomez not playing with Jagr; heck, what head coach wouldn't be excited about defenses keying on Jagr, then have Gomez follow with Shanny, and Drury be a third option? In theory, the Rangers should win those matchups. So I'm not sure it was a gross miscalculation. I think he went into last season realizing that what was wrong with this team (offsensively) was that the team had no second line centerman. He went out and got two and let Nylander go. What he didn't realize is that Dubi would play well, otherwise he may've not signed Drury or Gomez and may've kept Cullen and saved cap space.

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07-22-2008, 11:56 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
in a couple seasons, if the cap increases by, say 10%, Redden may not look all that expensive compared to what other defensemen in the market are getting. That's one thing to hope for. Of course, at some point the cap will stabilize, which is when some contracts will begin to look even worse.
Fletch, look at all of our fowards, and now look at all of our dmen. Who in the bunch would you consider a 1st line player? I don't feel any of them are, MAYBE Gomez but that is only with the right linemates. To me you save those long term NMC contracts for 1st line, top pairing, top flight goalies in the league. IMO Hank is the only one who deserved his contract, and I don't think his even has a NMC. IF Redden returns to form he could be a top pairing guy, but untill that happens he isn't a top pair guy right now. Like another poster said, we have a bunch of 2nd line guys which is why I feel a trade is in the works. Gomer needs someone to pass too........

Cap going up or not, bad roster management under the cap is just what it is. Sather has to be fired if this team flops. How many chances is he gonna have to screw up?

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07-22-2008, 12:01 PM
  #61
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You can assume that's the case, but that doesn't make it true. We obviously weren't the only team willing to overpay for him, otherwise his contract wouldn't be so high.

Point being, if Redden earns his paycheck and you need to free up space, you trade Rozsival. If Redden flops, you trade him for less than you'd hope to a team that needs defense and Keep Rozsival around.

Hell, TB managed to trade Boyle for a decent package and he makes even more money than Redden while being completely inept in his own end. Campbell can't play defense worth a damn and he makes 7.1 million. Maybe a team like Detriot or Dallas who's best d-man is pushing 40 might want to clear up some room for a veteran presence on the blue line when their #1 leaves for retirement. You could even waive Redden if things got really bad. We didn't give up any assets to get him, so it wouldn't be a total loss.

I'm getting tired of people assuming there is no positive outlook for this team. That's not directed at you zesty, just a general gripe with the board lately.
I hope not, I just said that there is plenty of time for additional trades if you think that they need one. I have a wait and see attitude right now….

Back to Redden. Yes there was a market for him, and that drove up the price. But you assume that those teams would still be willing to take him on at the deadline, as well as assuming they are on his short list of teams he will okay to trade with. Also, if our presumed #1 d-man gets to the point where he is on the block, I doubt his market value stays the same - even if he gets displaced due to some prospect.

Listen, I’d prefer him to be everything that Slats wants him to be, but if he isn’t I think we aren’t in the best situation with his contract. Again, I’ll just wait and see on this one….

Also, I have no idea what Boyle’s contract situation (# of years left) was/is at the time of the trade – was it as long as Redden’s will be at the 09 deadline?


Last edited by zestystrat: 07-22-2008 at 12:05 PM. Reason: me no write so good...
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Old
07-22-2008, 12:02 PM
  #62
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Redden has played ZERO games in Ranger blue. Give it a chance.

He's not just a good player, he is A GREAT player. The fresh start will do him and the Rangers good.

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07-22-2008, 12:05 PM
  #63
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and I think it was all reactionary b/c Sather never dreamed that neither Gomez nor Drury wouldn't mesh well w/ jagr. he is now paying for his gross miscalculation and scrambling to cover it up w/ other signings and trades.
it's not covering up, or scrambling. entering last season, of course there were concerns with how Gomez or Drury would mesh with Jagr. But I don't think anyone would have imagined that it would have reached the point that almost the entire forward lineup would have to be juggled to appease one player. that in itself is the problem in a nutshell, making every other forward spot possibly, maybe, hopefully work, all working around one player. Slats knew what he was doing when he brought in Drury and Gomez. he knew that Jagr would be gone sooner or later, and this team would benefit, and become better by being a team by addressing the problem sooner rather than later and bringing in two guys who could be cogs in the middle. now slats focused on complimentary players to play with them. would the better move have been to bring in yet another center, and hope Jagr likes him? no. Drury and Gomez were brought in the be the centerpieces of the team, and that is the transition that is happening. I don't understand people's issue with that.

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07-22-2008, 12:07 PM
  #64
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Cap going up or not, bad roster management under the cap is just what it is. Sather has to be fired if this team flops. How many chances is he gonna have to screw up?
With Jimmy D running things... Sather has the job as long as he wants it.

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07-22-2008, 12:07 PM
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Redden has played ZERO games in Ranger blue. Give it a chance.

He's not just a good player, he is A GREAT player. The fresh start will do him and the Rangers good.
At his peak he was a very good player. He never approached greatness. The question is whether he can regain very good status.

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07-22-2008, 12:09 PM
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With Jimmy D running things... Sather has the job as long as he wants it.
We know that Sather could sexually harass an Garden employee and survive so ineptitude probably won't be enough to get him canned. Well, we already knew that last part.

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07-22-2008, 12:16 PM
  #67
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I think alot of people are just getting sick of Sather's knee jerk reactions to what happened the previous season, and signing vets to LTC's when we do have kids in the waiting that look kind of promising. I mean look what he has done the past two offseason's.
Why do you assume that Sather's moves were knee jerk reactions though? What forward did we have ready to step into a top-six role this year in place of Zherdev? What top-pairing d-man did we have ready to play the role that we're counting on Redden to play? What depth do we have on the LW that Naslund isn't a necessary piece?

You said it yourself, we have kids waiting that look kind of promising. Not great, not sure-fire top-six guys, but kind of promising. That isn't good enough for any NHL organization, let alone the spend-happy Rangers.

Sangs isn't ready, Potter isn't a top-pairing guy, Cherepanov isn't available and isn't even a lock to come over and Korpikoski, despite being a point-per-game player at the NHL level (), shouldn't be rushed into a top-six role.

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07 offseason - we lost to Buffalo and it was obvious we needed 1 more center to carry the 2nd line. We go after Gomez or Drury but wind up getting both for bad deals. Even though both were good players there was no need to sign both, and in fact signing both made the team worse b/c we were forced to give up Nylander and Cullen. Now b/c of them signed we must change around philosophy to suit there needs. No chemistry between the team ensues the following season.
I'll be the first to admit that signing Gomez and Drury to those contracts was a poor decision on Sathers part, but it isn't the end of the world. But you have to look at it from a dated point of view, not in hindsight. Right now it's easy to say we were foolish, but at the same time, we didn't have the kind of depth at center we have now. Nobody was projecting Dubi to be a second line center and nobody thought Anisimov would adapt to the NA game so quickly. We went from a position of being short on immediate top-six depth, to having too much depth and all in one season.

Quote:
08 offseason - b/c of past offseason team is in full change of scenary mode. We needed more defensive help which was obvious. Result we go after 2 overpriced FA again and sign them to high $ LTC again. We only needed to sign one of Rosy or Redden and certainly not both for LTC's. Again we strap ourselves of money this year and are forced to trade away Tyutin and backman. For two players who we hope can fulfill their potential. We sign two 4th liners to $1mil contracts b/c we need size, thus maybe blocking kids in HFD from moving up. Than we sign Naslund to a 2 yr deal w/ a NMC. Now we have to once again re-do every single line and hope to god there is some chemistry. Once again we lock ourselves into dangerous contracts. We are still missing a true first line center, and winger. We are hoping that our 2a, 2b, and 2c lines can overcompensate for the lack of a true first line. Sather has not followed his rebuilding plan as we have too many LTC's for too much money, and again is right up against the cap. Also all LTC's have some type of movement clause in it further restricting what we can do. If this team lacks chemistry like last year we will be in full disaster mode.
I hear you on this Rags, I really do, but this was all coming eventually. The serious downside of having a team built around 35+ year old veterans is that at some point you're going to have to do a serious overhaul. Even if we brought back Jagr, Straka, etc, we'd only be putting off the inevitable. At some point we were going to have to purge the lineup of the old-timers and bring in some new blood. The issue being that our top-six was comprised of guys that are now gone and that's a tough area to fill, especially when our organization is lacking top-six talent on the wings.

I think the Zherdev trade was brilliant. Sure, Zherdev has to prove himself to us as he hasn't lived up to his potential yet, but isn't that what Tyutin was doing? Tyutin was projected to be a much more consistent offensive threat and he wasn't living up to it. So we got a former top-5 draft pick, and a hard working ball of potential for a guy who wasn't quite living up to the talent we all know he has, and a guy who shouldn't have been here to begin with. I think that's a solid deal.

The Voros and Rissmiller signings are puzzling for sure, but I think they were brought in to drive the competition in camp for those bottom-six spots.

We were going to have to redo our lines anyway. Expecting chemistry right out of camp isn't wise, but on the bright side, the players that were brought in do fit the system that Renney wants to implement. That should, at least in theory, speed up the chemistry building process.

Quote:
And truthfully nobody on this board knows if we will find that chemistry, or also knows w t f is going through Sathers head. He is going back to the old paradigm of trying to get the big name free agent to plug in holes. Gomez, Drury, Redden, Nazzy. he made a mistake last offseason and now is compounding it w/ making more mistakes in hope that he can cover up the ones last year.
If you release big name players, they create big time holes which need to be filled with other big time players. In the salary cap age, players want contracts that benefit them and players in the late stages of their career want movement clauses because they have families and want to settle down. Slats could have gone out and signed Ryder instead of Naslund, but is that necessarily a better play? He could have re-signed Jagr and Straka to one year deals, but then what does he do next season? We're in the exact same position we're in now.

There are a million possibilities for this team before the season starts, or even during the season. Maybe Florida drinks some more "*** are they thinking" Kool-aid and moves Bouwmeester to another team and doesn't get a d-man in return. They need a first pairing d-man and we offer them Rozsival, Prucha and a good pick or a prospect for Nathan Horton and Wade Belak. We shave a mil off our cap and get the power-forward we desperately need and the crease-clearing d-man we lack as well. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

I just don't think it's fair to write off Slats and this season just yet. It's like saying "That looks like crap!" to the guy painting your car when he's only put down the primer.

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07-22-2008, 12:20 PM
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trxjw

You and I are doing a lot of agreeing these days, my friend - good post.

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07-22-2008, 12:29 PM
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it's not covering up, or scrambling. entering last season, of course there were concerns with how Gomez or Drury would mesh with Jagr. But I don't think anyone would have imagined that it would have reached the point that almost the entire forward lineup would have to be juggled to appease one player. that in itself is the problem in a nutshell, making every other forward spot possibly, maybe, hopefully work, all working around one player. Slats knew what he was doing when he brought in Drury and Gomez. he knew that Jagr would be gone sooner or later, and this team would benefit, and become better by being a team by addressing the problem sooner rather than later and bringing in two guys who could be cogs in the middle. now slats focused on complimentary players to play with them. would the better move have been to bring in yet another center, and hope Jagr likes him? no. Drury and Gomez were brought in the be the centerpieces of the team, and that is the transition that is happening. I don't understand people's issue with that.
so now we are consistently juggling our lineup around 2 overpaid centers. Much better. At least Jagr earned his contract and was a serious threat each and every time on the ice, and lead us to 3 straight PO's. also its not like they had to juggle the 2nd and third lines to appease Jagr the previous years. he just needed players that fit his mold on his line. That is two players. Both of which we had already. Now we need 4 wingers or 3wingers and 1 center to make sure Mr. Drury and mr. Gomez can play their game correctly. We solved one problem by creating a bigger problem. Chemistry is hard to replace.

Slats thought Gomez would just replace Nylander w/ no problems. unfortunately Jagr and Gomez' styles didn't mesh well. Now we are paying for it.

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07-22-2008, 12:36 PM
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so now we are consistently juggling our lineup around 2 overpaid centers. Much better. At least Jagr earned his contract and was a serious threat each and every time on the ice, and lead us to 3 straight PO's. also its not like they had to juggle the 2nd and third lines to appease Jagr the previous years. he just needed players that fit his mold on his line. That is two players. Both of which we had already. Now we need 4 wingers or 3wingers and 1 center to make sure Mr. Drury and mr. Gomez can play their game correctly. We solved one problem by creating a bigger problem. Chemistry is hard to replace.

Slats thought Gomez would just replace Nylander w/ no problems. unfortunately Jagr and Gomez' styles didn't mesh well. Now we are paying for it.
how are we juggling the lineup to fit gomez and drury? neither has played a single game without jagr in the lineup. jagr a threat every time he was on the ice? since when did juggling the puck by the backboards and losing it, or waiting for a one timer that everyone knew was coming, and breaking a stick qualify as a threat? sure drury and gomez are overpaid, but it would be an even further mistake to keep back aging players, who clearly dont work with the new centerpieces of the club, than building around them.

we got younger, faster, and more balanced than last season. it's a difficult thing watching a team do a major overhaul, and witness the end of an error, but i really dont see what you (or anyone else) should be overly concerned with...besides voros, rissmiller, and the length of redden's deal, which are my ?'s of the summer.

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07-22-2008, 12:36 PM
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Why do you assume that Sather's moves were knee jerk reactions though? What forward did we have ready to step into a top-six role this year in place of Zherdev? What top-pairing d-man did we have ready to play the role that we're counting on Redden to play? What depth do we have on the LW that Naslund isn't a necessary piece?
Hey, do you realize that you are arguing the point Rags never made? It's not fare.

Zherdev may not be a good trade. It could be, though. The rest is just bad. It seem like signing for the sake of signing. Redundant centers and defensemen... I could expect Oilers act like that, not the Rangers.

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07-22-2008, 12:39 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
so now we are consistently juggling our lineup around 2 overpaid centers. Much better. At least Jagr earned his contract and was a serious threat each and every time on the ice, and lead us to 3 straight PO's. also its not like they had to juggle the 2nd and third lines to appease Jagr the previous years. he just needed players that fit his mold on his line. That is two players. Both of which we had already. Now we need 4 wingers or 3wingers and 1 center to make sure Mr. Drury and mr. Gomez can play their game correctly. We solved one problem by creating a bigger problem. Chemistry is hard to replace.

Slats thought Gomez would just replace Nylander w/ no problems. unfortunately Jagr and Gomez' styles didn't mesh well. Now we are paying for it.
Chemistry isn't as hard to replace with Drury and Gomez because alot of players in this league play similar styles. How many guys in the NHL play a similar style to what Jagr did? Not many and they were all old. All the young players we have fit better with Drury and Gomez than they would have with Nylander and Jagr. It is all about speed and a North South game nowadays. Guys to replace Drury and Gomez are much more in quantity and don't cost as much money because our young players can play with them. Chemistry is tough to replace but to get chemistry that fits Gomez and Drury is much easier than getting chemistry to fit to Jagr.

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07-22-2008, 12:49 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
so now we are consistently juggling our lineup around 2 overpaid centers. Much better. At least Jagr earned his contract and was a serious threat each and every time on the ice, and lead us to 3 straight PO's. also its not like they had to juggle the 2nd and third lines to appease Jagr the previous years. he just needed players that fit his mold on his line. That is two players. Both of which we had already. Now we need 4 wingers or 3wingers and 1 center to make sure Mr. Drury and mr. Gomez can play their game correctly. We solved one problem by creating a bigger problem. Chemistry is hard to replace.

Slats thought Gomez would just replace Nylander w/ no problems. unfortunately Jagr and Gomez' styles didn't mesh well. Now we are paying for it.
Now, in July? Think about that for a second.

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07-22-2008, 01:05 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Why do you assume that Sather's moves were knee jerk reactions though? What forward did we have ready to step into a top-six role this year in place of Zherdev? What top-pairing d-man did we have ready to play the role that we're counting on Redden to play? What depth do we have on the LW that Naslund isn't a necessary piece?
Come on the Drury and Gomez signings reek of knee jerk reactions. We need a center, lets go get two instead. Like I said before we should have signed Jagr and Sundin to two year deals. Now we have a bonified #1 and #2 lines. Leave Drury on Gomez' wing on the second line. Hell if Dubi (or Ani) gets good enough by the end of this year or next year than we can even rid ourselves of one bad contract in gomez, while getting some assets in return. A complete win-win. And don't say it would make the Rangers look bad if we traded a guy we signed 2 or 3 years ago, b/c trades happen all the time. sometimes teams change, or prospects make players expendable.

-Sundin-Jagr
Drury-Gomez-

is 100x better than what we have today. and if your willing to give Nazzy a 2yr deal than why not Jagr or Sundin. B/c Nazzy is almost as old and still isn't as good as either of them.

and just because we needed a top pair dman it does not excuse Sather of overspending in money and years to get one. I would have rather gotten a minor upgrade on defense and left Staal and Rosy together in the hopes that Staal would develop fast.


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You said it yourself, we have kids waiting that look kind of promising. Not great, not sure-fire top-six guys, but kind of promising. That isn't good enough for any NHL organization, let alone the spend-happy Rangers.

Sangs isn't ready, Potter isn't a top-pairing guy, Cherepanov isn't available and isn't even a lock to come over and Korpikoski, despite being a point-per-game player at the NHL level (), shouldn't be rushed into a top-six role.

I never mentioned any of these guys and i know that Cherry isn't coming over. Potter though I think could have been a #6 guy on this team though. Korps is ready to step into 3rd line. Byers is ready to step into 4th line. Ani might be ready to step into 3rd line.

Still letting them play and seeing what we have (while keeping cap space open) is a better choice than giving out Long term Deals for a player coming off a down year for a high price.


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I'll be the first to admit that signing Gomez and Drury to those contracts was a poor decision on Sathers part, but it isn't the end of the world. But you have to look at it from a dated point of view, not in hindsight. Right now it's easy to say we were foolish, but at the same time, we didn't have the kind of depth at center we have now. Nobody was projecting Dubi to be a second line center and nobody thought Anisimov would adapt to the NA game so quickly. We went from a position of being short on immediate top-six depth, to having too much depth and all in one season.
it's not the end of the world but if the Redden and Nazzy signings don't pan out, or if Zherdov doesn't live up to potential we are pretty screwed for a long while.

Also I have stated this many times before, I hated signing Drury and Gomez as soon as it happened. sign one that's fine but not both. I don't even care which one was signed. We had a need for 1 center. Both could have filled that need. Signing both actually exacerbated the problem b/c in the end now we needed a first line center and a change in philosiphy.



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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I hear you on this Rags, I really do, but this was all coming eventually. The serious downside of having a team built around 35+ year old veterans is that at some point you're going to have to do a serious overhaul. Even if we brought back Jagr, Straka, etc, we'd only be putting off the inevitable. At some point we were going to have to purge the lineup of the old-timers and bring in some new blood. The issue being that our top-six was comprised of guys that are now gone and that's a tough area to fill, especially when our organization is lacking top-six talent on the wings.
Granted the end of Jagr era was going to end. but I really believe he had two solid years left of hockey. and nobody said that we wouldn't be bringing up new blood, b/c there would still be some room. 1-2 top line wingers, and 3 3rd line wingers, and of course the entire 4th line would be pretty much open competition.

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I think the Zherdev trade was brilliant. Sure, Zherdev has to prove himself to us as he hasn't lived up to his potential yet, but isn't that what Tyutin was doing? Tyutin was projected to be a much more consistent offensive threat and he wasn't living up to it. So we got a former top-5 draft pick, and a hard working ball of potential for a guy who wasn't quite living up to the talent we all know he has, and a guy who shouldn't have been here to begin with. I think that's a solid deal.
I'm not complaining about the Zherdov trade. It was a good trade. But we wouldn't have needed it if Jagr was still here, if we didn't sign both drury and gomez. One thing lead to another, which lead to another. it was a chain reaction.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
The Voros and Rissmiller signings are puzzling for sure, but I think they were brought in to drive the competition in camp for those bottom-six spots.
We have Prucha, Dawes, Cally, Orr, Betts, Korps, Ani, Jessiman, Byers, Moore, Parenteau, Jamtin fighting spots as well. if they couldn't bring themselves to compete against each other than we have more problems than I thought. There was absolutely no need for either. Especially now since we got Fritsche as well. If we signed one not that bad, but both was just retarded. Again a knee jerk reaction. We needed some size up front so lets sign two bottom feeders. But we have players in the minors more than capapble of filling out the bottom 2 lines.

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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
We were going to have to redo our lines anyway. Expecting chemistry right out of camp isn't wise, but on the bright side, the players that were brought in do fit the system that Renney wants to implement. That should, at least in theory, speed up the chemistry building process.
You are right, and I hope it works. I'm not holding my breath though.


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
If you release big name players, they create big time holes which need to be filled with other big time players. In the salary cap age, players want contracts that benefit them and players in the late stages of their career want movement clauses because they have families and want to settle down. Slats could have gone out and signed Ryder instead of Naslund, but is that necessarily a better play? He could have re-signed Jagr and Straka to one year deals, but then what does he do next season? We're in the exact same position we're in now.
Wrong. Sometimes you just trust w/ what you have. Look at Colorado. they let go of Kariya, Selanne, Forsberg, Tanguay over the years and really have just replaced them w/ youths who are doing just fine. Detroit lost Shanny, and Hull over the last couple years and they filled their forwards from the inside.

also we wouldn't be in the same exact situation as this offseason if we signed Jagr and Straka to one year deals (using your example). our players would have one more year experiece. We would know more of what they are capable of, which in turn would let us make wiser decisions regarding FA. Plus our players in the AHL would probably get a little NHl experience and at worst would have another full season of AHL so they would be more prepared to make the jump.


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
There are a million possibilities for this team before the season starts, or even during the season. Maybe Florida drinks some more "*** are they thinking" Kool-aid and moves Bouwmeester to another team and doesn't get a d-man in return. They need a first pairing d-man and we offer them Rozsival, Prucha and a good pick or a prospect for Nathan Horton and Wade Belak. We shave a mil off our cap and get the power-forward we desperately need and the crease-clearing d-man we lack as well. Who knows? Stranger things have happened.

I just don't think it's fair to write off Slats and this season just yet. It's like saying "That looks like crap!" to the guy painting your car when he's only put down the primer.
yes there are tons of possibilities but the way Sather is running things it looks like he is going back to his old ways. Giving out LTC's at high $ to players who don't deserve it. We now have alot of money locked up and we still don't have any of our young players locked up yet long term besides lundy. In the next 2 years we have to re-sign Dubi, Staal, Ani, Korps, Zherdov, Girardi. hope the cap keeps skyrocketing b/c if it doesn't we are in a world of hurt b/c of NMC's and limited NTC's.

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Old
07-22-2008, 01:06 PM
  #75
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so glad the rangers got younger and faster.....this nhl is built on speed, there is no way around it......look at the teams who scored the most goals last season.....ottawa, montreal, detroit......what do they all have in common?.....they all have a TON of speed and can counter-attack in a split second which opens up the ice because the opposing defense needs to respect that......shanahan was painful to watch and jagr was not the same.....i enjoy watching teams like the habs who play with speed and counter and push forward with break-out passes to srping their forwards........

IMO the rangers lok more like the two first-place teams from last season....they got a lot faster(redden>malik, naslund>shanahan, zherdev>jagr), younger(which equates to more energy) and are all on the same page now.....

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