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The Andrei Kostitsyn discussion

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Old
07-22-2008, 01:02 PM
  #1
MastaK
 
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The Andrei Kostitsyn discussion

I didn't want to create a new thread for this but I didn't see any other thread where it would fit (maybe merging it with the S.Kost point prediction thread even though it's not only a point prediction thread)

My question is : How do you see A.Kostitsyn right now, and what do you think his potential is? Also, what's his value on the market right now and what's his value for the team. Do you think he can/will compare with other stars in the league?

I think a PPG is achievable for him. (probably not this season..)

I say this because even thought the trade was unrealistic, many thought Kovalchuk was worth more than A.Kost+S.Kost+1st. Which is debatable of course, and the point of this thread is not to debate this trade's (im)possibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Andrei will never be as explosive as Kovalchuk.
Well maybe, maybe not. But remember you said you thought A.Kostitsyn would never get on a 1st line and also that he will never hit 30 goals...I think he already proved your first statement to be wrong and he wasn't far from proving wrong your second one also. So why couldn't he prove you wrong for a third (two and a half) time?

Don't forget A.Kostitsyn took quite some time to develop and adapt to North America, I don't think he's done progressing yet...watch him take another huge step forward this season.

But anyways, it seems neighbor's grass is always greener, isn't it?

(I'm not sure if I said it correctly, I only know the expression in french)

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07-22-2008, 01:07 PM
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ToysInTheAttic
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Good size, strength, speed, great shot-stickhandling-passing skills. This player has the potential to be a consistent 35-40 goal scorer in the NHL. I think we just saw the tip of the iceberg last year.

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07-22-2008, 01:08 PM
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I don't see AK as one of the Kovalchuk/Heatley calibre, getting 50+ goals a season. But I can see him in the next tier, getting 35-45 goals on a regular basis. I think if he gets 35 goals, 70 points this year, I'll be happy with him.

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07-22-2008, 01:11 PM
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First, I think Andrei will only get better. I have a feeling that Kovalev was holding him back a bit at the end of the season. IMO, he needs to play on the right side to be fully effective, and he also needs to play with someone else than Kovalev. I hope we'll see new lines this year. Kost can do anything on the ice, and he's now ready to take more responsibilities. I don't know if he will ever be a real star in the league though. He has the potential, but it's too soon to know if he'll reach it.

As for the Kovalchuk thing, well Ilya will always be better, but we're talking about a stud. It's not fair for Kost.

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07-22-2008, 01:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastaK View Post
Well maybe, maybe not. But remember you said you thought A.Kostitsyn would never get on a 1st line and also that he will never hit 30 goals...I think he already proved your first statement to be wrong and he wasn't far from proving wrong your second one also. So why couldn't he prove you wrong for a third (two and a half) time?
Excuse me? If you're going to claim I said stuff -- which I might have, I don't know, but I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have used such absolutes with regard to statistics -- you'll have to provide quotes. This pretty much amounts to BS though.

edit: In fact, in searching through what I've previously said, this came up, dated January 24, 2007 -- before Andrei's last call-up:
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I don't think a return in a trade would actually merit trading [Andrei], which is why I think that keeping him is probably the best idea for the long-term performance of the Habs. In my books he's a sure fire 2nd line player, and will likely crack the top line. It's just a matter of logistics for us. We have too many skilled wingers and too few skilled centres.
...


Last edited by coolguy21415: 07-22-2008 at 01:26 PM.
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07-22-2008, 01:21 PM
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Marc the Habs Fan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
First, I think Andrei will only get better. I have a feeling that Kovalev was holding him back a bit at the end of the season. IMO, he needs to play on the right side to be fully effective, and he also needs to play with someone else than Kovalev. I hope we'll see new lines this year.
But KPK was so awesome last year from December on - both in terms of production and being incredibly fun to watch. Why break it up unless it's necessary?

I think Kostitsyn has legit 35-40 goal potential. He has a nose for the net, will go to the dirty areas to score and can really shoot the puck. His wrist shot is jaw dropping at times and he has a good backhander. He can stickhandle with the best of 'em and his acceleration with the puck is very good.

He had a 16.7 shooting % in 2007-08 while taking only 156 shots in 78 games. So basically 2 shots per game, if he can increase that shot count to 3 per game then the goal total should only increase.

He's also shown he can pass the puck with the elite, some of his passes on Plekanec goals have been electrifying.

Clearly point per game potential, which is basically what he almost put up from December 1 on last year.

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07-22-2008, 01:28 PM
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Has great top end speed, a long powerful stride, but average acceleration. An outstanding shot, great passer, good strength, creative and can dangle.

I see AK as a 40g/40a man in his prime. The fact he works to get back and doesn't shy away from the physical game, puts him in an elite group.

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07-22-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
But KPK was so awesome last year from December on - both in terms of production and being incredibly fun to watch. Why break it up unless it's necessary?

I think Kostitsyn has legit 35-40 goal potential. He has a nose for the net, will go to the dirty areas to score and can really shoot the puck. His wrist shot is jaw dropping at times and he has a good backhander. He can stickhandle with the best of 'em and his acceleration with the puck is very good.

He had a 16.7 shooting % in 2007-08 while taking only 156 shots in 78 games. So basically 2 shots per game, if he can increase that shot count to 3 per game then the goal total should only increase.

He's also shown he can pass the puck with the elite, some of his passes on Plekanec goals have been electrifying.

Clearly point per game potential, which is basically what he almost put up from December 1 on last year.
I agree with Freaky Habs Fan. I think the best thing for Andrei's development is to stick him on the right side and away from Kovalev. Reunite the HPK line that did pretty well 2 seasons ago if you want to, but Kostitsyn ought to be learning to produce on his own since Kovalev wont be around forever.

With a three year contract signed it's less imperative than I thought last month. But I think after this coming season at the latest he should be playing on "his own".

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07-22-2008, 01:44 PM
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Erika
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Andrei Kostitsyn has the potential to be a consistent 40-40=80 points player... (Not like Chris Higgins who many thought to be this guy...that impostor ).

Next year, I want to see him out of Kovalev line, because he is good enough to lead his own line. He needs to play on the right side too where he can deke, cut in the center and shoot the puck. Also, I really would love if he can be reunite on a line with his brother, because both has insane chemistry together !! They shares the same bloodline so it's a no brainer to put them together, especially from what we saw last year.

Next year, I expect Andrei to have around 60+ points. Anything under would be a dissapointment for me.


P.S: Sergei will ends up better than Andrei when everything will be said and done.

Andrei potential: 40-40-80
Sergei potential: 25-60-85


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-22-2008 at 05:07 PM.
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07-22-2008, 01:51 PM
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I think Andrei and Sergei are real sleepers here. They have huge potential and can become 80+ point per season type players. However I can see them both having blow out years with point highs of 90-95 It wouldn't surprise me. And who knows, if we get a great center in the future it might become more then that.

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07-22-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
I think Andrei and Sergei are real sleepers here. They have huge potential and can become 80+ point per season type players. However I can see them both having blow out years with point highs of 90-95 It wouldn't surprise me. And who knows, if we get a great center in the future it might become more then that.
Oh oh.... in not too long, we'll have a rehearsal of the whole Sedin vs Kostitsyn debate

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07-22-2008, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habhob View Post
Good size, strength, speed, great shot-stickhandling-passing skills. This player has the potential to be a consistent 35-40 goal scorer in the NHL. I think we just saw the tip of the iceberg last year.
Agreed, with his size, shot and no fear for going to the net, I can see him reaching 40 goals once or more during his career and consistantly be above 30 a year. I like the fact that he can play the physical game. He scored a couple of the best Hab goals we have seen in recent history.

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07-22-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
Oh oh.... in not too long, we'll have a rehearsal of the whole Sedin vs Kostitsyn debate
Shhh. I was thinking the same thing, but wanted to watch it evolve naturally.

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07-22-2008, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yarfangor View Post
I think Andrei and Sergei are real sleepers here. They have huge potential and can become 80+ point per season type players. However I can see them both having blow out years with point highs of 90-95 It wouldn't surprise me. And who knows, if we get a great center in the future it might become more then that.
I'm not sure if Sergei has the high end offensive potential his brother has. He definitely does not have his size and shot. He plays a different sort of game and should be a good player in his own right, just not at the same elite level as Andrei.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Andrei Kostitsyn has the potential to be a consistent 40-40=80 points player... (Not like Chris Higgins who many thought to be this guy...that impostor ).

Next year, I want to see him out of Kovalev line, because he is good enough to lead his own line. He needs to play on the right side too where he can deke, cut in the center and shoot the puck. Also, I really would love if he can be reunite on a line with his brother, because both has insane chemistry together !! They shares the same bloodline so it's a no brainer to put them together, especially from what we saw last year.

Next year, I expect Andrei to have around 60+ points. Anything under would be a dissapointment for me.


P.S: Sergei will ends up better than Andrei when everything will be said and done.

Andrei potential: 40-40-80
Sergei potential: 25-60-85
Sergei does not have the same level of size and skill as his brother. He is more flashy/flamboyant, but not as much substance. I think he can be more of a Higgins type 2 way winger that can play PP and PK and puts up 60+ points.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-22-2008 at 05:08 PM.
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07-22-2008, 02:07 PM
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Why are people so convinced Kostitsyn would do better as a RW? Pretty much all his success at the NHL level has come as a LW. Are we basing it off all those mediocre seasons in Hamilton? The guy broke out on the left side last season, I say leave him there. Unless there's some compelling reason to move him to RW, like Kovalev gets injured or something.

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07-22-2008, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
I'm not sure if Sergei has the high end offensive potential his brother has. He definitely does not have his size and shot. He plays a different sort of game and should be a good player in his own right, just not at the same elite level as Andrei.
Nobody can say that yet. I know Erika is totally bias in her assertion, yet I'm not ready to classify Sergei on a lower level than Andrei. They don't bring the same things and Sergei might be as elite in his own right. Only time will tell. But the upside I saw in Andrei a couple years back is on the same level as the upside I see with Sergei, just different qualities.

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07-22-2008, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
Andrei Kostitsyn has the potential to be a consistent 40-40=80 points player... (Not like Chris Higgins who many thought to be this guy...that impostor ).

Blah Blah blah
What the hell does that have to do with this discussion?

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07-22-2008, 02:19 PM
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As much as the KPK line did an awesome job last year, I'd like to see what would happen if Andrei was put on a line where he was the go-to goal scorer, along with some great setup guys:

Tanguay-Koivu-Kostitsyn could be explosive because it would give Andrei a chance to really utilize his amazing shot.

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07-22-2008, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
As much as the KPK line did an awesome job last year, I'd like to see what would happen if Andrei was put on a line where he was the go-to goal scorer, along with some great setup guys:

Tanguay-Koivu-Kostitsyn could be explosive because it would give Andrei a chance to really utilize his amazing shot.
And try Sergei with Pleks and Kovy....

A natural playmaker with our two best scorers.

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07-22-2008, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Why are people so convinced Kostitsyn would do better as a RW? Pretty much all his success at the NHL level has come as a LW. Are we basing it off all those mediocre seasons in Hamilton? The guy broke out on the left side last season, I say leave him there. Unless there's some compelling reason to move him to RW, like Kovalev gets injured or something.
Usually the best scorers/finishers play off wing as it makes it easier to cut in on the rush with the puck(you get a better angle off wing) or getting open on the backside.

I would like to see Carbo try Tanguay and/or S.Kost on Plekanec's line. I'd like to see A.Kost and/or Lats getting an extended look on Koivu's RW unless the Habs add Selanne.

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07-22-2008, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Excuse me? If you're going to claim I said stuff -- which I might have, I don't know, but I'm fairly certain I wouldn't have used such absolutes with regard to statistics -- you'll have to provide quotes. This pretty much amounts to BS though.
Sorry I didn't put any quote...I thought you would remember. Anyways, you made me do the research...Here's what you said on June 19th, 2007 :

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
You make a good case for trading Ryder eventually, but why trade him now? We don't have a suitable replacement on the team already (Kostitsyn scored 1 goal last season), signing a UFA replacement would be a dumb idea because a scoring RW is not the biggest need (since we already have a RW capable of scoring.... Ryder).

I don't care if we trade Ryder in a year or two if Kostitysn is be ready to perform at that level (mind you I don't think Kostitsyn will ever get past the 2nd line, so I doubt it) or are willing to spend the money to sign a marquis UFA winger who can pot 40 goals (but that's going to cost 5-6 million dollars per season). Doing so now is terrible asset management, especially when we want to make the playoffs.

I think a lot of people on this board forget that potential means nothing if it's not achieved. So far Kostitsyn has NOT achieved anything.
Other interesting quotes from you on that thread :
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
You gotta quelm the bloody idiots around here sometimes.. It just boggles my mind that people honestly think trading Ryder and replacing him with Kostitysn -- effectively a rookie -- is a good idea!
And for the 30 goals thing :
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Here's where we disagree. I think Kostitsyn has good potential, not great. He'll never be an all-star forward, and likely won't score 30-40 goals. He's more of a playmaker than a goalscorer, and should be looked at as a replacement for Kovalev, not a goalscorer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
We're going to have to agree to disagree. I want to make the playoffs, and let me tell you that handing Ryder's roster spot to an unproven rookie (actually not a rookie since he's played too many games in the NHL already) isn't the way to do so.

I'm really tired of you re-hashing the same points over and over. Yes, Kostitsyn had good hype when he was drafted. Yes, Ryder is not a very effective defensive forward. Perhaps Kostitsyn might outscore Ryder in 2-3 years, but he's not going to do it next season. I have high hopes for Kostitsyn, but [...]
Could go on forever.

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07-22-2008, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
As much as the KPK line did an awesome job last year, I'd like to see what would happen if Andrei was put on a line where he was the go-to goal scorer, along with some great setup guys:

Tanguay-Koivu-Kostitsyn could be explosive because it would give Andrei a chance to really utilize his amazing shot.
Agreed. I'd like to see that type of line tried out for a bit. You know that Kovy-Plekanec-A.Kost can work so if the new combos don't work you can pretty easily go back to them.

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07-22-2008, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MastaK View Post
Sorry I didn't put any quote...I thought you would remember. Anyways, you made me do the research...Here's what you said on June 19th, 2007 :



Other interesting quotes from you on that thread :


And for the 30 goals thing :




Could go on forever.
Dang... You really went out your way to rub it in his face !

Have all your hockey predictions become true in the past? You haven't been wrong once?

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07-22-2008, 02:30 PM
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I still remember when a lot people, even Habs fans, considered him a bust when he was developing slowly from age 19-21. In other news, Latendresse is slow and eats fried goat beard and monkey tail. He's 21 and is not putting up the numbers we were hoping for when he first made the team...bust?

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07-22-2008, 02:31 PM
  #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Why are people so convinced Kostitsyn would do better as a RW? Pretty much all his success at the NHL level has come as a LW. Are we basing it off all those mediocre seasons in Hamilton? The guy broke out on the left side last season, I say leave him there. Unless there's some compelling reason to move him to RW, like Kovalev gets injured or something.
I really want to see him at RW, I personally think he looks more comfortable on teh right side then he does on the left, just my take on what I've seen from him since watching him with CSKA, Team Belarus, Hamilton and the Habs. I would love to see him on a line with his brother.

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