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The Andrei Kostitsyn discussion

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Old
07-22-2008, 01:37 PM
  #26
Arctic_Hab_Fan
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Why does almost every friggen thread became a 'this hab player is much better than this other hab player'?

Enjoy the players this team has, they ALL contributed to a great season and provide enthusiasm for the up coming season.

Enjoy the achievements of the team for once and quit bickering like friggin eleventeen year olds!

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07-22-2008, 01:38 PM
  #27
Ozymandias
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Originally Posted by Watsatheo View Post
I still remember when a lot people, even Habs fans, considered him a bust when he was developing slowly from age 19-21. In other news, Latendresse is slow and eats fried goat beard and monkey tail. He's 21 and is not putting up the numbers we were hoping for when he first made the team...bust?
I didn't they made fried goat beard poutine and monkey tail poutine.

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07-22-2008, 01:39 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Squeaky View Post
Why are people so convinced Kostitsyn would do better as a RW? Pretty much all his success at the NHL level has come as a LW. Are we basing it off all those mediocre seasons in Hamilton? The guy broke out on the left side last season, I say leave him there. Unless there's some compelling reason to move him to RW, like Kovalev gets injured or something.
Most of his great plays were the result of him being on the right side.

The Philly goal, that great backhand saucer pass to Plekanec against Boston, the Atlanta goal, the Washington goal, I could go on...

The guy is just explosive on the right side. His shot is his best attribute, and he'll have much better angles to release that left sided badboy on the right side...

Quote:
Originally Posted by montreal View Post
I really want to see him at RW, I personally think he looks more comfortable on teh right side then he does on the left, just my take on what I've seen from him since watching him with CSKA, Team Belarus, Hamilton and the Habs. I would love to see him on a line with his brother.
My thoughts exactly. The Kos=Pleks-Kos line is what I really want to see...

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07-22-2008, 01:43 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Licou View Post
Dang... You really went out your way to rub it in his face !

Have all your hockey predictions become true in the past? You haven't been wrong once?
BTW, all these quotes are in the same old thread, it's not like if I've searched all his posts on HFBoards.
As for what you say, hell yeah I've probably been wrong many times...more often on the arguments than on the statement (I'm not sure if it's the right way to say it). Hard to explain but most of the time I'm right about what I say but the ways I use to prove my points are wrong.

Why I brought this up? It's just to point out that Andrei is OFTEN underestimated..that's why I also said : Neighbor's grass is always greener...Why wouldn't it be possible for the Habs to have a future offensive star on the team?
And another reason why I brought it up is that anyone calling other people idiots should look at himself in the mirror before doing so.

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07-22-2008, 01:44 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Licou View Post
What the hell does that have to do with this discussion?
Because when talking about Andrei, Higgins sucks.....so does Lats, am I on post #15?

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07-22-2008, 01:45 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by hogtownhabsfan View Post
My thoughts exactly. The Kos=Pleks-Kos line is what I really want to see...
That would also be a good idea...

I'd go for either :

Skost-Pleks-Kovy
Tanguay-Koivu-AKost

or

Tanguay-koivu-Kovy
SKost-Pleks-AKost

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07-22-2008, 01:46 PM
  #32
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His best side is his right side, but having been able to play at the pro level on his opposite side will benefit him into being more dimensional and a better hockey player.

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07-22-2008, 01:48 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by MastaK View Post
Sorry I didn't put any quote...I thought you would remember. Anyways, you made me do the research...Here's what you said on June 19th, 2007 :



Other interesting quotes from you on that thread :


And for the 30 goals thing :




Could go on forever.
I actually remember that thread now and the stupidity of the whole thing.

In my defense actually replacing a 30-goal scorer with a rookie in any season is asinine. After not making the playoffs, the idea is to improve supplemental offense. Not discard the existing offense.
What happened last season wasn't Kostitsn replacing Ryder, either. Ryder played himself off the team in a season where most everyone can admit he sorely underachieved. It's undebatable that Andrei outscored Ryder, so I was wrong on that one. Andrei improved quicker than I expected him to.

And I pretty much still agree with most of those things. I don't really ever see Andrei scoring 90 points like many others here do. 60-70 points playing top 6 ES minutes and 1st PP minutes is what I envision, which constitutes a borderline 1st/2nd line player. And I still believe that once Kovalev isn't on his line, he'll be more of a playmaker than a goalscorer.

With respect to the 30-40 goals, I'm pretty certain that I was referring to this season, since what you were proposing is a straight-up replacement of Ryder with Andrei. I am, though, surprised that I used the term "never" when it came to the All-Star, but regardless the original post you're calling me out for stands. You think Andrei has the potential to be as good as the best goalscorer in the NHL over the past 5 years? Who consistently scores 40 goals even when he's got no help? I certainly don't.

I don't think I've been proven wrong on any of those things yet, either. To date Andrei's really not accomplished any of what you claim except being a 1st line player (though not in terms of ice time).

Ugh that thread makes me so annoyed, not because I was wrong, but because I remember how you claimed stuff without any sources or evidence (like Ryder being a leech, among other things). Then when I went and did the research to prove you wrong, you passed it off as nothing.


Last edited by coolguy21415: 07-22-2008 at 01:56 PM.
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Old
07-22-2008, 02:04 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I don't think I've been proven wrong on any of those things yet, either. To date Andrei's really not accomplished any of what you claim except being a 1st line player (though not in terms of ice time).

Ugh that thread makes me so annoyed, not because I was wrong, but because I remember how you claimed stuff without any sources or evidence (like Ryder being a leech, among other things). Then when I went and did the research to prove you wrong, you passed it off as nothing.
He was 4 goals shy of the 30 mark... that's pretty close.

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07-22-2008, 02:05 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
He was 4 goals shy of the 30 mark... that's pretty close.
If he's going to create a thread just to call me out, close doesn't count.

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07-22-2008, 02:16 PM
  #36
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I'm really high on AK46; but he still has a lot to prove, he is young and still developping

but he has the complete package to become a hell of a player
we need to not start a thread to trade him as soon as he is 3 games without a point...
give him time and he'll prove to all of us what he is capable of.

I also think (and always did) that he has more upsides then serge; different kind of game but overall he has more tools to become a star in this league; which does not mean more effective then his bro.

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07-22-2008, 02:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I actually remember that thread now and the stupidity of the whole thing.

And I pretty much still agree with most of those things. I don't really ever see Andrei scoring 90 points like many others here do. 60-70 points playing top 6 ES minutes and 1st PP minutes is what I envision, which constitutes a borderline 1st/2nd line player. And I still believe that once Kovalev isn't on his line, he'll be more of a playmaker than a goalscorer.

Ugh that thread makes me so annoyed, not because I was wrong, but because I remember how you claimed stuff without any sources or evidence (like Ryder being a leech, among other things). Then when I went and did the research to prove you wrong, you passed it off as nothing. What's the point in debating with someone like that?
Ok. Well I was struggling a bit with my english (I still do, but not as much) so maybe sometimes it was hard to follow what I was saying, I'll give you that. Anyways, it's not the point of the thread, but atleast admit you were wrong on these two things. (and not that far from being wrong on the 3rd)

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull
What happened last season wasn't Kostitsn replacing Ryder, either. Ryder played himself off the team in a season where most everyone can admit he sorely underachieved. It's undebatable that Andrei outscored Ryder, so I was wrong on that one. Andrei improved quicker than I expected him to.
Well you can see it the way you want. In the end, an unproved young forward who only had one goal in 22 games playing top two lines minutes surpassed, outscored and outplayed a proven 30-goal scorer...

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Old
07-22-2008, 02:59 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MastaK View Post
Ok. Well I was struggling a bit with my english (I still do, but not as much) so maybe sometimes it was hard to follow what I was saying, I'll give you that. Anyways, it's not the point of the thread, but atleast admit you were wrong on these two things. (and not that far from being wrong on the 3rd)


Well you can see it the way you want. In the end, an unproved young forward who only had one goal in 22 games playing top two lines minutes surpassed, outscored and outplayed a proven 30-goal scorer...
I would say that one instance of it happening doesn't make it a rule, and actually planning for it to happen is dumb. It's not how you build a team.

Regardless I'm an admittedly highly opinionated person and don't deny that I have been wrong once or twice before. I'm certain that if I went through your posts I'd find you've been wrong before too, there's just less material to go through.

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Old
07-22-2008, 03:17 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I would say that one instance of it happening doesn't make it a rule, and actually planning for it to happen is dumb. It's not how you build a team.

Regardless I'm an admittedly highly opinionated person and don't deny that I have been wrong once or twice before. I'm certain that if I went through your posts I'd find you've been wrong before too, there's just less material to go through.
Arguably theres something that needs to be said about this whole thing and how the opinion of this board is rarely "on the money" about a player real value and progress. Many here are often overly optimistic or overly pessimistic about prospects in general.(not pointing you out specifically, to the contrary.)

Since I joined this board, I always talked about the "opportunity" factor for hockey prospects. It was my firm belief that Andrei would rise up quickly once given the opportunity and he did, it's always hard to predict how a hockey player will progress but it's even more random and difficult to know when he will get the opportunity. For Andrei I have always felt that the organization waited to long, in the end, it doesnt change a thing. Sergei however, was given a spot terribly faster, theres probably a bit of fate in that, if Ryder would have played decently last season Sergei would still be an AHL prospect atm.

As for Andrei's top end upside, I think it's pretty hard to say at this point, because what he needs to fix in his game is basically improving his self-confidence, only time will tell. He can end up anywhere from a 60 pts player to a 100 pts player.

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Old
07-22-2008, 03:21 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
I would say that one instance of it happening doesn't make it a rule, and actually planning for it to happen is dumb. It's not how you build a team.

Regardless I'm an admittedly highly opinionated person and don't deny that I have been wrong once or twice before. I'm certain that if I went through your posts I'd find you've been wrong before too, there's just less material to go through.
I know it doesn't happen that often but it does happen. And the tricky part is to predict when it'll happen.

Saying "a rookie will not outscore/outplay a proven player" can't be made a rule either, and that's what you seemed to say. Like you said (I think) we have to look at every prospect individualy, and I just think that some prospects (A.Kost last season) are at a good enough level to take a spot on the first two lines even thought they didn't "prove" themselves for an entire season or two or the number of seasons or goals you want them to have before they get labeled as "proven"...

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Old
07-22-2008, 03:21 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Freaky Habs Fan View Post
First, I think Andrei will only get better. I have a feeling that Kovalev was holding him back a bit at the end of the season. IMO, he needs to play on the right side to be fully effective, and he also needs to play with someone else than Kovalev. .
At first I thought you were saying that Kovalev was personally holding Andrei back... that I could not see how anyone could come to that conclusion...

Then I read on, and thought you probably meant the fact that he plays on his off wing because of Kovalev being a RW. That I could see.

Is that what you meant?

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07-22-2008, 03:23 PM
  #42
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I too would like to see the two brothers together, so here's a thought;



Put the two Kostitsyn on a line with a grinder like Lapierre. Let them work their magic together & have Lapierre do the grunt work. Max seemed to accelerate in that position in Hamilton.


Put Tanguay with Plekanec & Kovalev, G Skill, skill & more skill!!

Then put Latendresse on the wing with Koivu & Higgins. The latter two have shown in the past that they play well together & IMO Latendresse bring more to the table than Ryder did. Latendresse has better hands, more size & the same foot speed as Ryder.

BTW, I expect Andi Kostitsyn to be the Habs leading goal scorer this coming season.

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07-22-2008, 03:48 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Ozymandias View Post
That would also be a good idea...

I'd go for either :

Skost-Pleks-Kovy
Tanguay-Koivu-AKost

or

Tanguay-koivu-Kovy
SKost-Pleks-AKost
higgins odd man out i guess.... traid bait for a center next season if koivu leaves perhaps!? all the rumors stated higgins was offered to the leafs for matts at the deadline

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Old
07-22-2008, 03:52 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Licou View Post
Dang... You really went out your way to rub it in his face !

Have all your hockey predictions become true in the past? You haven't been wrong once?
Well to be fair the RedScull guy DID say those quotes were BS, so he was just showing him that they weren't

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Old
07-22-2008, 03:56 PM
  #45
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all the rumors stated higgins was offered to the leafs for matts at the deadline
Which Gainey later denied as he said the first step was Sundin willing to waive the NTC and then discussing a trade. Sundin never waived it.

This is purely a Toronto media fabrication, thanks to that moron Steve Simmons.

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Old
07-22-2008, 04:02 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by DieHardHabs View Post
higgins odd man out i guess.... traid bait for a center next season if koivu leaves perhaps!? all the rumors stated higgins was offered to the leafs for matts at the deadline
Not really.... in both cases I see him as a force on the 3rd line with Chips and Lats.

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Old
07-22-2008, 04:20 PM
  #47
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I am honestly a big fan of Andre and I hope that he at least gets 60 points this season. I am only concerned to know is if he was earning those points himself, or if it was because of Kovalev and Plekanec helping him out.

I remember when Esposito had a great rookie season with Radulov, but once Radulov left, Espositos points, production and stock declined. I hope it's not the same case with Andre.

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Old
07-22-2008, 04:59 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by MRocketR View Post
I am honestly a big fan of Andre and I hope that he at least gets 60 points this season. I am only concerned to know is if he was earning those points himself, or if it was because of Kovalev and Plekanec helping him out.

I remember when Esposito had a great rookie season with Radulov, but once Radulov left, Espositos points, production and stock declined. I hope it's not the same case with Andre.

Did he have much help when he took off Mike Green's jock, or when he took a cruise through the entire Thrashers line up? I don't think he'll decline if he doesn't play with Plekanec or Kovalev - and if he doesn't play with them do you honestly think playing with Sergei, Saku, or Tanguay will make him any worse?

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Old
07-22-2008, 05:44 PM
  #49
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I really want to see him at RW, I personally think he looks more comfortable on teh right side then he does on the left, just my take on what I've seen from him since watching him with CSKA, Team Belarus, Hamilton and the Habs. I would love to see him on a line with his brother.
I think SKost is better on RW than Lats, and two out three (those guys plus AKost) need to play RW on this team's top 3 lines. The one remaining guy (I think Lats) plus Higgins and Tanguay are the LW.

Tanguay-Pleks-Kovy
Lats-Koivu-AKost
Higgins-Chip-SKost

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Old
07-22-2008, 05:47 PM
  #50
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He gives good hits too lets not forget that.

Like other people says, i think we saw the tip of the iceberg last year. He showed all the sign of a superstar in the making. When Sergei came up, he really stepped up his game. Thats a good thing!

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