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Sundin to Montreal Rumors and Discussion Part 8

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Old
07-22-2008, 08:01 PM
  #51
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I'm pretty sure Gainey has told Sundin that you will be our #1 center.

I mean common, he's gonna be the best paid player by 3 million dollars, what do you guys think, he's gonna play second fiddle to Pleks and play on the 2nd PP unit.

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07-22-2008, 08:02 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
You must not consider Ray Bourque a real winner then.
Why? He played the whole season in Colorado and was a major part of thier defense.

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07-22-2008, 08:03 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by couz View Post
I'm pretty sure Gainey has told Sundin that you will be our #1 center.

I mean common, he's gonna be the best paid player by 3 million dollars, what do you guys think, he's gonna play second fiddle to Pleks and play on the 2nd PP unit.
he will get more ice time in vancouver. Montreal is going to roll 3 offensive lines with mats.... with any of them having the potential to be the top line on any given night. We know how carbo loves to distribute ice time. If its a big deal to him, that's a another strike against montreal.

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07-22-2008, 08:03 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
Why? He played the whole season in Colorado and was a major part of thier defense.
Because based on what Ra said, he would have been an ''opportunist'' to join cup contending Colorado instead of sticking it out with Boston helping them rebuild.

And Ra, considering that 2001 SCF went 7 games, you can make the case his presence was the possible difference.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-22-2008 at 10:54 PM.
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Old
07-22-2008, 08:04 PM
  #55
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thats a good point. i agree with you he would have said it already if he wasnt really thinking about it...plus jp barry said its basically between vancouver, montreal, and toronto

from the interview i actually got the feeling it really is between vancouver and montreal but sundin is trying to say the right things for toronto
I don't see why he would take 1 month to make up his mind if it's to come back with an even worse Toronto team. What I don't get either is why would Toronto want him if they are rebuilding and they know he wants to win. So yeah it's pretty much between Vancouver and Montreal, unless he retires to piss off everybody

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07-22-2008, 08:05 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by couz View Post
I'm pretty sure Gainey has told Sundin that you will be our #1 center.

I mean common, he's gonna be the best paid player by 3 million dollars, what do you guys think, he's gonna play second fiddle to Pleks and play on the 2nd PP unit.
Of course he did. But a #1 center in a team with 3 great scoring and balanced lines means so much. A #1 center on a team on a team like Vancouver and Toronto????

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07-22-2008, 08:07 PM
  #57
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For 20 days now, I have been pretty much convinced that he was going back to Toronto. That has not changed with the latest JP Barry words.

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07-22-2008, 08:07 PM
  #58
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Let me tell you, Montreal's forwards trump the canucks both in top end talent and more importantly, scoring depth. I'd love to have kesler as our checking centre though.
Doesn't even compare. The Canucks have as much creativity as an accountant. Each of our lines are substancially better than the Canucks if they are matched up. Unfortunately, Kesler is thier second line center at the moment, he was third in icetime last year among forwards.

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07-22-2008, 08:07 PM
  #59
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I'm comparing Montreal with Vancouver and Toronto. We're the Detroit of that group. The most talented, and the ones that needs less Sundin. Sure we need him as well, reason why we make a pitch for him. But everybody in here keeps telling ourselves that even if he doesn't come we're fine and most of us by looking at the 'Nucks lineup and Toronto's lineup keep saying that they won't make the playoffs. But with Sundin in the lineup, do you change your idea about the 'Nucks??? Sundin could have this in mind. He wants the spotlight and was flattered by the 'Nucks offer and the importance they're giving him in the team. Isn't it what he's looking for?

Add the fact that we're not #1 in the money department and add that to the fact that he'll be joining the Leafs worst enemy.....

I just don't see it for us.
True, we are the best of the 3. I just don't see why he would still keep us in the picture. I don't even see why he still hasn't made up his mind, because it seems he already knows where he wants to go with all the indications he gave.

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07-22-2008, 08:09 PM
  #60
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I'd love to have kesler as our checking centre though.
And trade Burrows for Lapierre in a heatbeat.

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07-22-2008, 08:09 PM
  #61
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I don't see why he would take 1 month to make up his mind if it's to come back with an even worse Toronto team. What I don't get either is why would Toronto want him if they are rebuilding and they know he wants to win. So yeah it's pretty much between Vancouver and Montreal, unless he retires to piss off everybody
'Cause he was pissed at Toronto and time heals. The more we let that thing go, the more he has a chance to go back there. Going back to a worst team, though we don't know the impact of the kids there, means that he'll take that team on his shoulders, like Barry told team1040 that it's exactly what he wants to do and will try to bring that team in the playoffs. I mean the Eastern Conference will not be incredibly tough this year. It is somewhat possible that a surprising Toronto team with a Sundin on a mission takes the 8th spot......or the 14th.....

The only reason why Toronto would want him is to give somewhat something to their fans. As much as some people would want to lose big time to get Tavares, I,m not really sure it's the opinion of everybody. Pretty sure most people would want to see him back and if he chooses them over us or Vancouver, he will come back as a God who doesn't want to abandon his team.

Not wanting to play for Detroit means that the Cup for him is not that important.

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07-22-2008, 08:18 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
Because based on what Ra said, he would have been an ''opportunist'' to join cup contending Colorado instead of sticking it out with Boston helping them rebuild.
They were contender, but where they favourites? Like Detroit who just won the cup and added the best UFA available?
Quote:
And Ra, considering that 2001 SCF went 7 games, you can make the case his presence was the possible difference.
Well, that's kinda put down you're point no? Since he was a deciding factor, and not a bystander.

Sundin whould be the second, maybe third center in Detroit. He would be the second center in Vancouver (from what I read on the Vancouver board). He would the number one in Montréal.

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07-22-2008, 08:18 PM
  #63
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Of course he did. But a #1 center in a team with 3 great scoring and balanced lines means so much. A #1 center on a team on a team like Vancouver and Toronto????
If Sundin is thinking like that than he can't have the best of both worlds because you need three solid lines to win a cup.

I'm betting Sundin will have a chat with Carbo to make sure he knows how he's gonna be used.

And by judging that Carbo interview at the beginning of the dev camp (Carbo smirking) and acting quite confident sounds like he may have already chatted with him.

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07-22-2008, 08:22 PM
  #64
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How many teams have won a championship with a 38 year old as THE offensive centerpiece?

I mean, does Sundin not realize he basically just went through in Toronto since the end of the lockout what he apparently desires now?

Does anyone else see how backwards this situation is? Gainey may need to convince Sundin we aren't even THAT good of a team. This is getting to be bat-**** insane compared to other UFA situations.

Ra, Colorado was always looked at as a cup contender in those days. The West was ridiculous back then as Dallas and Detroit were also big time contenders, it was a ''trio'' of favorites really.


Last edited by Marc the Habs Fan: 07-22-2008 at 08:27 PM.
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Old
07-22-2008, 08:23 PM
  #65
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Who wants to wager how many threads there would be if he did sign here?
0, and forever after 0, because the servers would be permanently fried.

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07-22-2008, 08:28 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
How many teams have won a championship with a 38 year old as THE offensive centerpiece?

Does anyone else see how backwards this situation is? Gainey may need to convince Sundin we aren't even THAT good of a team. This is bat-**** insane.

Ra, Colorado was always looked at as a cup contender in those days. The West was ridiculous back then as Dallas and Detroit were also big time contenders, it was a ''trio'' of favorites really.
Detroit in 2002? Yzerman may not have been THE centerpiece, but he did lead the team in scoring during the playoffs that year.

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07-22-2008, 08:28 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
He said he wants to be a big part of the team, a go to guy. In Detriot he would just be a bystander. He wants to be one of the main pieces.
I think he would be one of the main pieces on the Habs. He would play 18-20 minutes a night and be a key cog in making us a Cup contender.

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07-22-2008, 08:39 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by Marc the Habs Fan View Post
How many teams have won a championship with a 38 year old as THE offensive centerpiece?

I mean, does Sundin not realize he basically just went through in Toronto since the end of the lockout what he apparently desires now?

Does anyone else see how backwards this situation is? Gainey may need to convince Sundin we aren't even THAT good of a team. This is getting to be bat-**** insane compared to other UFA situations.
Well, Gainey has been saying for 2 years that "he's looking for a big centerman that will put us over the top"

Sundin wants to be a player that "will put a team over the top"

It's a perfect match.

The problem is, as someone posted earlier, as you grow older you're more concerned of how you'll be remembered. I think that's what is holding him back. Don't forget what Salming told him. But Toronto hasn't been in a winning situation and are rebuilding. Like Koivu said two years ago, older player don't want to go trough rebuilding phases.

Vancouver seems to be the comprise.

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07-22-2008, 08:47 PM
  #69
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But does Sundin view the Habs as a team that is already ''at the top level'' in this league?

What's his perception of our team?

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07-22-2008, 08:47 PM
  #70
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We should bump one of his many Brule loving posts from back in 2005 or 2006...
His famous Brule is just as good if not better than Crosby post...Yah that would be funny.

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07-22-2008, 08:56 PM
  #71
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Personally I am sick of the Sundin talk, it is wearing thin much like the Forsberg and Brunnstrom talk as well this season.

On a side note. All these "experts" and diehards from the teams in Vancouver and Toronto are reading too much into the Swedish interview. Fans and media types have to wake up and remember that the reporter only asked about Vancouver and Toronto, Montreal wasn't brought up...but Mats still mentioned their offer as well.

I think that statement speaks louder than that of him talking about Toronto and Vancouver. He brought Montreal up on his own, and by his comments you can read into it that Montreal hasn't been pushy to Mats and has left him alone to think and he respects that.

People say he will go to Vancouver because of the money, or he will go to Toronto because of loyalty? I say BS to it all!

Mats won't be bought to play 2 more years, if it is this hard to decide to play it will be that much harder to play 2 more. Not to mention he could go to a team that is weak already and see it weaker the next season with UFA's Sedins leaving to go elsewhere. Vancouver has to offer the bank because it has no attraction to it for players, why do you think Demitra signed there? There wasn't a market for his services out there.

Toronto. They are rebuilding, they are buying out his teammates and close friends, they are bullying McCabe and they pressured Mats at the deadline and before July 1st...not to mention there still is no GM in place and they haven't addressed their spending woes, they are still throwing mad maoney around to players like Hagman and Finger! There is nothing there for Mats. You can be loyal to a team, but you can only be so loyal.

Out of all 3 teams Montreal may have the lowest pay per year offer on the table. But, Mats has made his money and with other vets on the team like Koivu, Kovalev and Markov making 1 - 2 million per less than he is being offered I think that is just as flattering to a player like Mats as a 10 million dollar offer from the Canucks. With the Habs he is goign to the most balanced team, a team where he doesn't have to carry them, a team that is wanting to win now and a team in financial and players/prospects deep to go the distance. This team in Montreal is also the only team who isn't pressuring Mats, isn't in the press daily about this mess and is sitting politely by to see if he is willing to play here...no pressure, no questions asked and if he chooses to go elsewhere Gainey respects that and will pursue other ideas.

I say Mats signs in Montreal, or retires.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ra View Post
Well, Gainey has been saying for 2 years that "he's looking for a big centerman that will put us over the top"

Sundin wants to be a player that "will put a team over the top"

It's a perfect match.

The problem is, as someone posted earlier, as you grow older you're more concerned of how you'll be remembered. I think that's what is holding him back. Don't forget what Salming told him. But Toronto hasn't been in a winning situation and are rebuilding. Like Koivu said two years ago, older player don't want to go trough rebuilding phases.

Vancouver seems to be the comprise.
Looking at Vancouver I don't see them any better than Toronto right now and it looks as they are grasping at straws to rebuild in a quick fix for this year, not the future. At least Toronto is starting to get rid of older players, go for younger players and drafting as well.

Vancouver is shedding themselves of Naslund and Morrison and will replace them with Demitra and Sundin...to me it doesn't look that much better.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-22-2008 at 10:57 PM.
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07-22-2008, 09:07 PM
  #72
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Detroit in 2002? Yzerman may not have been THE centerpiece, but he did lead the team in scoring during the playoffs that year.
Look at their main pieces for the 2002 cup...

Brendan Shanahan
Sergei Fedorov
Brett Hull
Nicklas Lidstrom
Luc Robitaille
Steve Yzerman
Igor Larionov
Chris Chelios
Pavel Datsyuk
Kris Draper
Tomas Holmstrom
Dominik Hasek

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07-22-2008, 09:08 PM
  #73
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The problem is, as someone posted earlier, as you grow older you're more concerned of how you'll be remembered. I think that's what is holding him back. Don't forget what Salming told him. But Toronto hasn't been in a winning situation and are rebuilding. Like Koivu said two years ago, older player don't want to go trough rebuilding phases.
Well there's a time he needs to think about himself too. Does he want to be remembered as one of the best players ever to not lead a team to a Cup? Who wants that hanging over their head?

Do you honestly think in 5-10 years when the Leafs honour his number they will boo him for going to Montreal? No, never in a million years. He's paid his dues there, they should be happy for him.

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07-22-2008, 09:15 PM
  #74
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Well there's a time he needs to think about himself too. Does he want to be remembered as one of the best players ever to not lead a team to a Cup? Who wants that hanging over their head?

Do you honestly think in 5-10 years when the Leafs honour his number they will boo him for going to Montreal? No, never in a million years. He's paid his dues there, they should be happy for him.
Exactly. They loved Gilmour just as much when he came back to the Leafs after being a Hab.

Maybe Sundin should talk to players like Gilmour who have won a Cup, instead of listening to old vets like Salming who never won the Cup. Salming can say all he wants about loyalty and wish of playing his whole career with the Leafs...but deep down inside of him he will always have any empty feeling of unaccomplishment of never winning the Cup with the Leafs or any team.

Maybe Mats should talk to the Swedish GM and head of hockey Mats Naslund and talk about Montreal and the feeling of being a champion.

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07-22-2008, 09:29 PM
  #75
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quick question, is there any way koivu can play wing? that way we would have 2 solid scoring lines, with chip centering the third line, which would see a reduced ice time role?

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