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Bettman: Yeah or Nay?

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07-22-2008, 06:42 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
Case to point.

Samueli's crime is that he told investigators that he hadn't discussed back-dated options.

There was nothing illegal about the back-dated options.

He is facing prison time for saying he hadn't discussed them. He didn't personally profit from them, but the minutes show that he was in a meeting where they were discussed and he said something like 'no problem from me.'

You seriously expect people 'take the initiative' in such an environment?

To be quite honest, I am surprised anyone ever discusses anything with regulators or investigators in the US. I'd plead the fifth on the grounds that my bad memory could make me guilty of a crime.
Holy Hannah Batman...that got you posting!

There are different ways to take the initiative without running the risk of prosecution.

Without linking back to every story in the thread, rather than his whistling past the graveyard approach in the McLean interview, which anyone with critical thinking skills would see as a sham, he could at least have shown some honest concern for the state of the union and given the impression that he was in command and working toward a resolution.

The Coyotes appear to have lost $30 million last season...isn't that an issue that should be drawing the attention of the Commisioner?

Dawgbone would have you believe that's a "trifle" because it's growing the game and maybe Bettman believes that too but, if he does, I have to question his alacrity. That is not sustainable.
Phoenix has a brand new arena, a team on the rise, the cachet of Gretzky and still their attendance is declining year after year. How long will it be before the moving vans swoop into the desert?

Bettman needs to be ahead of those issues, and there are many others, or IMO, he's not doing his job.

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07-22-2008, 10:16 PM
  #127
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I'm pretty sure the Yotes reported losses have a lot to do with book-keeping (this is supported by the reported loss being partially due to a lacrosse team). I also think the $30 million number is for two seasons ago.

Even at $400K per game in gate (the latest report had them at $450K) they would have revenues of $16+ million from tickets. Now, maybe none of their fans eat any food, or drink anything at games, and maybe they get zero from TV, radio, and sponsorships, and merchandise but I find the $30 million figure highly unlikely as a loss for running a hockey team. A rough number is that the gate accounts for around 50% of NHL revenues as an average. They are also small enough to qualify for revenue sharing, I think.

As for moving, about their first stop will have to be into bankruptcy court. They reportedly would have to pay about $750 million in lease breaking penalties to the city (at this time, the penalty slides as time passes). The Yotes are not going anywhere.

Also, it is reported that their situation is improving. Maybe that's why Bettman wasn't speaking in the tones of a pall-bearer.

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07-22-2008, 11:02 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by Oi'll say! View Post
Because he doesn't take hockey seriously enough as a sport. He would never have allowed a team called the mighty ducks into the nba when he worked there nor would he have stood there blowing duck calls on national tv. He makes the league and the sport look like a joke.

His vision for the league is to get some you-alls down to the rink to gawk and go.

The nhl is a serious product and should have a serious fan base. Maybe people who have never worn skates just can't be converted or maybe he just went too far too fast. Either way he needs to believe in the sport before he can sell it.
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Originally Posted by bleed_oil View Post
His dreams of the NHL becoming a truly national product in the US are unreasonable and are being proven a failure every time another Sunbelt team hits financial difficulties. He has seriously diluted the NHL product by introducing teams in places where NO ONE cares about hockey. Who wants to watch Anaheim and Carolina play in the Stanley Cup? No one, not even people in Anaheim or Carolina. Ratings and fan interest prove as much.

Do I really need to go dig out that link from the playoffs last year that showed that in a gigantic Atlanta market the Thrashers somehow managed to get <15,000 fans to watch there playoff game against the Rangers. You would think that would statistically impossible.
It cheapens the whole sport to have teams in markets where they are completely irrelevant.
Bettman wasn't commissioner when Anaheim was voted into the league.

I'm not positive what role the commish would play in choosing a destination for a relocation (Carolina) but I'll guess not much. I don't think they have too much to do with expansion choices either, for that matter.

The BOG has a lot more to do with these decisions than the average fan knows, from what I read written by fans. Bettman is the public face. He attracts a lot of the flak, and it is likely the owners like it that way.

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07-22-2008, 11:06 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
I'm pretty sure the Yotes reported losses have a lot to do with book-keeping (this is supported by the reported loss being partially due to a lacrosse team). I also think the $30 million number is for two seasons ago.

Even at $400K per game in gate (the latest report had them at $450K) they would have revenues of $16+ million from tickets. Now, maybe none of their fans eat any food, or drink anything at games, and maybe they get zero from TV, radio, and sponsorships, and merchandise but I find the $30 million figure highly unlikely as a loss for running a hockey team. A rough number is that the gate accounts for around 50% of NHL revenues as an average. They are also small enough to qualify for revenue sharing, I think.

As for moving, about their first stop will have to be into bankruptcy court. They reportedly would have to pay about $750 million in lease breaking penalties to the city (at this time, the penalty slides as time passes). The Yotes are not going anywhere.

Also, it is reported that their situation is improving. Maybe that's why Bettman wasn't speaking in the tones of a pall-bearer.
Well their attendance isn't improving and that would also have an effect on ancillary revenue I would think.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2008

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07-22-2008, 11:53 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Well their attendance isn't improving and that would also have an effect on ancillary revenue I would think.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nhl/attendance?year=2008
Not unreasonable. They lost 200 or 300 fans per game, average.

However, it seems they made up a lot with better management and marketing to the corporate sector. I can't find the article online (the Republic has a 7 day archive) but here is a fan site that quotes it.

http://coyotescorner.net/viewtopic.p...c750b6bed1c8cd

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07-23-2008, 12:08 AM
  #131
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
Not unreasonable. They lost 200 or 300 fans per game, average.

However, it seems they made up a lot with better management and marketing to the corporate sector. I can't find the article online (the Republic has a 7 day archive) but here is a fan site that quotes it.

http://coyotescorner.net/viewtopic.p...c750b6bed1c8cd
Fair enough and I appreciate the work...but do you believe there is a hope in Hades that market will ever work?

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07-23-2008, 12:39 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
Fair enough and I appreciate the work...but do you believe there is a hope in Hades that market will ever work?
I don't know, but I don't see why not. Dallas does OK.

20 or 40 years ago I suppose the same things could be said about places like St Louis and Colorado (they failed once) and others.

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07-23-2008, 12:51 AM
  #133
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
I don't know, but I don't see why not. Dallas does OK.

20 or 40 years ago I suppose the same things could be said about places like St Louis and Colorado (they failed once) and others.
I guess until that question is answered you have one that does and one that doesn't. There has to be a logical explanation.

Saying Dallas and Phoenix are identical is like saying Edmonton and Winnipeg are.

They aren't.

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07-23-2008, 12:57 AM
  #134
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Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
I guess until that question is answered you have one that does and one that doesn't. There has to be a logical explanation.

Saying Dallas and Phoenix are identical is like saying Edmonton and Winnipeg are.

They aren't.
I wasn't saying they are identical.

They are similar though in that they were both non-traditional hockey markets when NHL teams moved there.

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07-23-2008, 01:08 AM
  #135
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Originally Posted by nye View Post
I wasn't saying they are identical.

They are similar though in that they were both non-traditional hockey markets when NHL teams moved there.
So, like a couple of other posters, do you believe that all Phoenix has to do is have better management and a winning team to be successful as other posters have postulated or is there an underlying malaise?

Dallas has been successful for a long time but could they weather a 5 year span out of the playoffs?

I don't know the answer but my instinct tells me Phoenix is much more fragile.

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07-23-2008, 01:17 AM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dashingsilverfox View Post
So, like a couple of other posters, do you believe that all Phoenix has to do is have better management and a winning team to be successful as other posters have postulated or is there an underlying malaise?

Dallas has been successful for a long time but could they weather a 5 year span out of the playoffs?

I don't know the answer but my instinct tells me Phoenix is much more fragile.
Demographics tell me otherwise.

Arizona has a large Canadian ex-pat population, especially in winters. Where are the hockey fans? Not at the arena it would seem, but they are in the area. A winning team solves a lot of problems no matter the market, more so for the Yotes than most I suspect.

Beyond that, maybe I just have more faith than some others that a great sport will gain fans and build a base among new fans if given enough time and adequate exposure. That would be where better management would come in, yes.

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