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Old
07-24-2008, 10:03 AM
  #1
I Am Chariot
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Peter Prucha

1st line duty or trade bait ?

He is Czech. Might be nice to have him on opening night. But that aside.....

He's the most mentioned Ranger in trade proposals. Yet if he's on the team most see him as our 1st or 2nd line wing.

Is he the Dormant offense Renny speaks of?

Prucha Drury Naslund

Prucha Gomez Zherdev

??

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07-24-2008, 10:06 AM
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1st line duty or trade bait ?
Not good enough for either.

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07-24-2008, 10:09 AM
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He wont have to clean Jagrs apartment anymore though right?

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07-24-2008, 10:21 AM
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I don't think his value is high enough to get anything significant in return.

If he comes to camp 10-15lbs heavier, I could see him getting a chance in the top-six and on the power-play to start the season before being dealt if he fails to prove himself.

The kid has a ton of heart, but it's hard to imagine a top-six with only one forward over 6ft, assuming Dubinsky gets pushed back to the 3rd line that is.

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07-24-2008, 10:29 AM
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I don't think there's really an option besides giving him top 6 minutes and PP time. personally, being the eternal optimist I am, I think he'll turn it around.

we wait, and we see

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07-24-2008, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think his value is high enough to get anything significant in return.
If he comes to camp 10-15lbs heavier, I could see him getting a chance in the top-six and on the power-play to start the season before being dealt if he fails to prove himself.

The kid has a ton of heart, but it's hard to imagine a top-six with only one forward over 6ft, assuming Dubinsky gets pushed back to the 3rd line that is.
comon man Hollweg got a 5th. I'm sure we could get at least a 3rd or 4th rder for him. Maybe a conditional second. Like if Prucha hits 25 goals.

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07-24-2008, 10:36 AM
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I dont think theyll get enough in return for him unless they fleece another team like they did in the Columbus trade. Im not sure thatll happen twice.

The book is out on him, and it doesnt take a genius to look at Pruchas contract and the cap position the Rangers are in to see they might free up some space by moving him.

No one is going to do the Rangers any favors straight up for the player the Rangers need - which is a legit top 6 winger or another aggressive d-man, so more has to be included in that deal.

Sure he could be moved, but being that Renney has mentioned they are going to reconfigure the system a bit to cater for a more fast, skilled game, you would think the kid could fit in.

The problem isnt Prucha, its the glut of players surrounding him that make the situation what it is.

I think if they cant get a legit return for him they should give him a shot. I'll be rooting hard for the kid and who knows, if he regains his confidence we all know what hes capable of, and that could be a big difference maker on this team.

Sather got Zherdev, Redden and Naslund on the faith that they would have bounce back seasons with a change of scenery. Why not give Proochs a chance with a new system and more playing time?

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07-24-2008, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
comon man Hollweg got a 5th. I'm sure we could get at least a 3rd or 4th rder for him. Maybe a conditional second. Like if Prucha hits 25 goals.
Difference being Hollweg spent the season doing exactly what he's supposed to be doing while Prucha rode the bench because he wasn't scoring. The fact that he wasn't being utilized properly isn't going to reassure many GM's.

That and the fact that Toronto seems to be ready to tank next season. But hey, if they're giving away assets, how about Prucha for Ponikarovsky? Adds size, grit and 20 goals to our lineup while giving Zherdev another Ukrainian to hang around with. Also is only about half a mil more than Prucha.

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07-24-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think his value is high enough to get anything significant in return.
I agree. After a season of spending quite a bit of time in a suit, he is at his lowest value since he's been on the team.

Best case scenario and assuming you want to trade him - I truly believe you have to give him some time to redeem himself and give him a chance to put up some decent to good numbers. Then at that point, if he doesn’t fit on the team, then trade him.

I think as far as trade value upside: PP > Hollywood.

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07-24-2008, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I don't think his value is high enough to get anything significant in return.

If he comes to camp 10-15lbs heavier, I could see him getting a chance in the top-six and on the power-play to start the season before being dealt if he fails to prove himself.

The kid has a ton of heart, but it's hard to imagine a top-six with only one forward over 6ft, assuming Dubinsky gets pushed back to the 3rd line that is.
I really don't think Prucha can put on 10-15 lbs. If he could've without affecting his game he would've already. The guy is just tiny, he has a small frame and it's hard for someone like that to just throw on 10 lbs. of muscle without slowing down and losing his ability.

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07-24-2008, 11:00 AM
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I really don't think Prucha can put on 10-15 lbs. If he could've without affecting his game he would've already. The guy is just tiny, he has a small frame and it's hard for someone like that to just throw on 10 lbs. of muscle without slowing down and losing his ability.
right, he was the same size when he scored 30 goals as this season, the only difference was how he was used

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07-24-2008, 11:08 AM
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I am looking forward to seeing how Prucha does if he is given Power Play time. Shanny took Prucha's PP time the past two seasons.

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07-24-2008, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by TomLaidlaw View Post
I am looking forward to seeing how Prucha does if he is given Power Play time. Shanny took Prucha's PP time the past two seasons.
I couldnt agree more give the kid one more season its not like his stock can drop anymore at the end of 08-09

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07-24-2008, 11:23 AM
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If Renney feels....

he's not worthy of ice time on the top three lines and PP time, then he should be dealt immediately if there's someone out there to take him. If they can dump the salary somewhere else, then all the better.

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07-24-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattyd99 View Post
I really don't think Prucha can put on 10-15 lbs. If he could've without affecting his game he would've already. The guy is just tiny, he has a small frame and it's hard for someone like that to just throw on 10 lbs. of muscle without slowing down and losing his ability.
True enough. But frankly if Prucha wants to solidify a spot on the roster, he's going to have to defy the odds in one way or another.

He should be doing everything in his power to add some size. He can always adjust his game as the season rolls on. He might lose a step or two, but I guarantee he'd still be one of the 5 fastest players on this team.

The Rangers know what he's capable of, you can bet they're doing everything they can to bulk him up. Even if they get rid of him, the added size will comfort more GM's at the trading table.

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07-24-2008, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by RANGERS2448 View Post
I couldnt agree more give the kid one more season its not like his stock can drop anymore at the end of 08-09
That's what people here kept telling me about Montoya when I suggested moving him a year earlier.

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Old
07-24-2008, 11:47 AM
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Fletch
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Prucha's size...

is not his problem. In my opinion, it's so overblown and exaggerated. Being knocked down most often didn't affect his ability to finish the play. He got right back up and wasn't the last one back on defense (heck, at one point around January he led the team in +/- - a decent fact for a guy who didn't score much and whose line didn't score much which means he wasn't scored upon much and he wasn't going against fourth lines). He forechecked and actually created turnovers, even with that small frame. He got open.

His problem was his inability to adjust. When he scored 30 goals, 16 of them were on the PP. The other 14 at ES were aided by his ability on the PP because he got hot on the PP and that carried into other areas. On the PP, he was mostly stationary and put away one-timers, while occasionally digging after a puck and keeping it in. 68 games, 30 goals - not bad. Was there an issue with his size scoring those goals? No. Also note that his ES time was bounced around from the first to fourth line including extensive time with Betts.

Second season - 22 goals, full season and I think he had 8 PP goals. What happened? First, his PP time was cut for Shanny, and as such, you'd expect less PP goals and less overall goals (and if you believe that a goal scorer needs to be on the PP to keep in a rhythm, you'd expect him to struggle at ES). OK, so he has less time so he needs to find a way to keep his touch. He really didn't do that. He didn't adjust well to less time and less opportunities. But hey, is 22 goals for a kid who's not a top or second line and who was played inconsistently on a PP really that bad? Again, was size really a problem here?

Third season - forget the numbers because I don't remember. This is where he didn't adjust well. He couldn't sit by the goalie and wait for Jagr's pass because even when he played with Jagr on the PP for a dozen or so games, the pass didn't happen and he needed to adjust, but didn't. At even strength he had zero chemistry with his linemates. His style didn't mesh well with Drury (and Drury by that time looked like crap having spent the first 10-15% of the season playing nearly 25 minutes per game). He did improve his defense, getting back, but the one area he never improved was his puck-handling skills. Further, his shot went in the crapper. He always seemed to be in the wrong place and never adjusted well to his linemates.

Now why is that? Part of it is coaching - he did just fine with Dubi [and Cally I believe]. Part of it is Prucha is a one-dimensional player, and that's a player who has a decent shot. His puck-handling skills are poor and haven't improved from day one. His shot do go to the potty last season, which went downhill gradually throughout; seemingly the guy was discouraged, as well as a lack of adjustment, which he needs to take blame for.

Can he play at his size? Absolutely. Can he play in this league? It has to be in the right situation. He can keep the puck in, but don't ask him to handle it. He can get off a shot, but he's not going to create that opportunity himself and his lineamates need to get him the puck. Can he still score PP goals? He really needs to do more than sit on the goalie's right and wait for the puck - but if you can get him the puck consitently, he'll put away more than his fair share. Is that opportunity here in NY? Not on Renney's team. He's looking for better puckhandlers, in my opinion, and I don't fault him for that - it's his team and he needs to feel comfortable. I do feel that while many players were given long leashes, Prucha was not. Everyone put it on Prucha, but he wasn't afforded opportunity after opportunity despite what he did for the Rangers that, say, a Hossa was afforded. I can't say why - perhaps Renney didn't think Prucha was the type of player he wanted, which, again, is just fine - it's his team and he's going to win and lose how he feels comfortable. I just think there is a place in the league for Prucha.

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07-24-2008, 11:48 AM
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That's what people here kept telling me about Montoya when I suggested moving him a year earlier.
Yes, but Prucha has actually played in the NHL and once was a valuable asset.

Montoya was always a question mark

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07-24-2008, 11:51 AM
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right, he was the same size when he scored 30 goals as this season, the only difference was how he was used
no the only difference was he was playing on the PP with a ridiculously hot Jagr and a great PPing center in Nylander.... sadly we don't have either.

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07-24-2008, 12:01 PM
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no the only difference was he was playing on the PP with a ridiculously hot Jagr and a great PPing center in Nylander.... sadly we don't have either.
Yes, because Gomez is terrible right?

Letting go of Jagr was the right thing thing to do, and we will see if Prucha's numbers were solely dependent on Jagr. If they were then you can bet he won't be with this team next season.

You still have to give him another chance next year, especially since we are lacking in the forwards department. It's not like he's being payed 5 million. There is really nothing to lose at this point

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07-24-2008, 12:16 PM
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Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
1st line duty or trade bait ?

He is Czech. Might be nice to have him on opening night. But that aside.....

He's the most mentioned Ranger in trade proposals. Yet if he's on the team most see him as our 1st or 2nd line wing.

Is he the Dormant offense Renny speaks of?

Prucha Drury Naslund

Prucha Gomez Zherdev

??
I believe he IS going to play in the top 6 and if he can redeem his form I would do this

Prucha, Dubinsky, Zherdev

I think they could be a potent young line

I would also do

Naslund, Gomez, Drury

Then for the bottom 6

Dawes, Fritsche, Callahan

Rissmiller/Voros, Betts, Sjostrom/Orr

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Old
07-24-2008, 12:19 PM
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Tired of the Prucha trade crap, if he has survived this long, he's here to stay (the duration of his current contract at least)

He better get top 6 minutes or Renney is a fool.

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07-24-2008, 12:36 PM
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Prucha's not done. He was so damn successful he rookie season for 2 reasons:
1) He's a finisher.
2) He plays well with someone that attracts attention or a big body player that can feed him.

He is a very opportunistic goal scorer. He's not going to set himself up. Most of his goals were either great plays or 'garbage' goals. That's not to take anything away from him, because he does his job very well. But you might as well throw him on defense or in net if you don't use him properly.

He needs the minutes in game, and PP minutes to be successful, but he will be just that given the opportunity (let's make sure his skills have diminished suddenly rather than assuming they have). Either put him on the top line with Gomer, or the sencond line, with Dubinsky. Dubi learned a lot from Jags, and so did Prucha. Let's try to exploit that common ground. What ever we do, do not strip him of minutes, and do not put him with Drury, they are far to similar and both players can be affected from it.

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07-24-2008, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThirdEye View Post
Yes, but Prucha has actually played in the NHL and once was a valuable asset.

Montoya was always a question mark
A year ago, Montoya was almost universally viewed as a much greater asset than Prucha was. That is why everyone was terrified of losing him. Almost everyone said that his value could only rise.

When I pointed out that it was impossible to predict a player's value a year in the future, those "in the know" explained to me that I didn't know what I was talking about.

The point is that a player's value can go down as easily as up, contrary to what is often maintained here by the masses. Prucha could be worth a 1st rounder next year or a 7th rounder. No one knows. I'm betting on 7th rounder but like everyone else I'm just guessing.

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Old
07-24-2008, 12:46 PM
  #25
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Expectations

I believe its peoples expectations of Prucha.

Let's talk about his positives and negatives.

Pros:
Does not shy from contact
Can keep the puck deep if needed
Has decent finishing skills (for a small frame to be stationary in front of the net is a testament to his resolve)
Fast Skater
Plays Defense

Cons:
Contract
Not a playmaker or passer
Small Frame, means he gets knocked off the puck easily when he has speed.

Hmmm, sounds like a keeper, and actually would be good to keep on the 3rd line to be used on the pp with with some limited time on the top two in case of injury.

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