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Just how fast/slow is Chipchura?

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Old
07-23-2008, 08:38 PM
  #51
Pierre Dagenais
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I scrolled down to post #15 and I did NOT see a Lats bashing post

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07-23-2008, 09:39 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Skrudland View Post
From the title of the thread I thought this would turn into a Rodney Dangerfield-esque joke-off:

Q: How slow is Chipchura?
A: He's so slow he gets lapped by his shadow!
Thank you for chipping in.

I wonder if certain posters have ever heard of the guy in your username. A player not unlike Chip, faster but with arguably less touch, a relentless worker on the ice who seemed to find his way onto winning teams, often as captain.

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07-23-2008, 10:31 PM
  #53
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I like Chipchura, and his last-year performance was pleasantly surprised to me. Maybe it's because my expectation was quite low.

Sometimes I wonder how Chipchura can succeed in NHL: he has below average speed, ordinary shots, don't play physical, bad in face-off. Maybe he has a good vision !??
You must be blind...the kid is a solid prospect...he's very physical...not afraid to get dirty...he has a really good wrist shot...and great hockey sense he positions himself really well...he has good vision...and is only 22...gzzzz why are we so hard on these kids!!! ?

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07-23-2008, 10:34 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Drunk World Order View Post
You must be blind...the kid is a solid prospect...he's very physical...not afraid to get dirty...he has a really good wrist shot...and great hockey sense he positions himself really well...he has good vision...and is only 22...gzzzz why are we so hard on these kids!!! ?
We're so hard on these kids because we got spoiled.

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07-23-2008, 10:40 PM
  #55
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We're so hard on these kids because we got spoiled.
so very true...in alot of organizations Chips would probally be a top 3 prospect!

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07-24-2008, 01:58 AM
  #56
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I really like Chipchura but I think a lot of posters over-hyped him.

At first, he was described as a big physical gritty forward with a defensive conscience and great leadership skills. I remember scouts having concern about his skating and I think their remarks were founded.

First of all, I never understood why so many people thought of him as a potential top-six forward. People thinks because he is a first-rounder, he automatically has top-six potential. He was used in the big junior competitions as a checking-line forward and that was most scouts predicted him to become. A great third-line forward who leads by example isn't exactly a catastrophe to me.

He has great size and use his strength well but I originally thought he was going to develop into a more aggressive physical player in the hitting department. His skating is average: speed is fine, first step and acceleration are slightly below-average. However, he makes it up by always moving his feet and showing great smarts and positional awareness.

Offensively, he will never be confused with a natural goal-scorer but he dishes the puck well enough to play a third-line role on a good team. I thought Chipchura was decent in his first tryout. I wouldn't have minded if he stayed up the whole season but didn't make himself valuable enough to be a necessity in the line-up so I wasn't angry when he was sent down.

I wouldn't mind seeing him start the year in Hamilton to continue his development but he is also defensively responsible enough to play in the NHL already. I think Chipchura's top end upside would be a top-tier third liner, around 35-40 pts per year playing against the opponent's top line on a nightly basis and having a solid role on the PK. Expecting more would be over-rating his potential IMO.


Last edited by Mathieu Lavergne: 07-24-2008 at 02:04 AM.
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07-24-2008, 02:08 AM
  #57
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Personally, I'm not too high on Chipchura. I mean, he'll have an NHL carreer because he's intelligent and is good on PK, but I don't know what exactly he can bring to an offensive minded team like Montreal. Some leadership, probably, and useful PK skills, but that's about it.

People see him as our future 3rd line center, but I'd rather have a guy who can contribute offensively to center the 3rd line. Chipchura has trouble to manage any offense in the AHL, so I don't know how he could bring any in the NHL. Even on a fourth line, I'd rather have energy players... But I admit he's still young and we should be patient.

The only way I could see him becoming useful to the Habs would be as a PK specialist, who can also be given some very specfic defensive missions, when it's time to protect a lead, for example. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have him on a fourth line also because he won't cost us many goals. Maybe if surrounded by 2 energy guys, that could be the right situation. But personally, I don't want to see him taking a roster spot on the 3rd line unless he proves he can bring some offense.

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07-24-2008, 02:16 AM
  #58
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Personally, I'm not too high on Chipchura. I mean, he'll have an NHL carreer because he's intelligent and is good on PK, but I don't know what exactly he can bring to an offensive minded team like Montreal. Some leadership, probably, and useful PK skills, but that's about it.

People see him as our future 3rd line center, but I'd rather have a guy who can contribute offensively to center the 3rd line. Chipchura has trouble to manage any offense in the AHL, so I don't know how he could bring any in the NHL. Even on a fourth line, I'd rather have energy players... But I admit he's still young and we should be patient.

The only way I could see him becoming useful to the Habs would be as a PK specialist, who can also be given some very specfic defensive missions, when it's time to protect a lead, for example. Of course, it doesn't hurt to have him on a fourth line also because he won't cost us many goals. Maybe if surrounded by 2 energy guys, that could be the right situation. But personally, I don't want to see him taking a roster spot on the 3rd line unless he proves he can bring some offense.

Agreed !! At best, he will become a mediocre 3rd liner or good 4th liner, nothing more !! Wasting a 1st rounder on this type of player is just beyond me... The guy is severly overrated around here just because he was a so called 1st rounder... He can't even put more than 40 points in the AHL, how can he put 40 in the NHL ? The guy looks like the prototypical 3rd liner that weak offensive teams need. If Chipchura would be a Leafs or Bruins prospect, nobody would even talk about him... let alone his supposely leadership skills and his defensive qualities... He's a trade bait IMO.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-24-2008 at 05:41 PM.
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07-24-2008, 02:18 AM
  #59
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I should add that Chipchura would already be very appreciated and used, maybe on a 3rd line, with a defensive minded team with little depth on the offense (ex : Vancouver, Atlanta, Islanders, etc.). It's just that the Habs is really an offensive minded team at this point, and I think we are just one player away (Sundin?) to have a team with 3 very dangerous offensive lines. Chipchura just doesn't fit on any of those lines.

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07-24-2008, 02:31 AM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Saku K. View Post
I really like Chipchura but I think a lot of posters over-hyped him.


First of all, I never understood why so many people thought of him as a potential top-six forward. People thinks because he is a first-rounder, he automatically has top-six potential. He was used in the big junior competitions as a checking-line forward and that was most scouts predicted him to become. A great third-line forward who leads by example isn't exactly a catastrophe to me.
Thats exactly why I want him to be successful in the NHL and be great at just that. Gainey "style".
Because in the PO you must have guys like him.
I dont want a lot of them, I only want 1, but a great one at it and he could still be it imo. A key player for the cup.

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07-24-2008, 04:10 AM
  #61
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Originally Posted by Partisan du CH View Post
Personally, I'm not too high on Chipchura. I mean, he'll have an NHL carreer because he's intelligent and is good on PK, but I don't know what exactly he can bring to an offensive minded team like Montreal. Some leadership, probably, and useful PK skills, but that's about it.

People see him as our future 3rd line center, but I'd rather have a guy who can contribute offensively to center the 3rd line. Chipchura has trouble to manage any offense in the AHL, so I don't know how he could bring any in the NHL. Even on a fourth line, I'd rather have energy players... But I admit he's still young and we should be patient.
What Chipchura will bring to an "offensive minded team like Montreal" is a good two way player, strong in his own end and contributes offensively. Someone who sets a good example and always works hard.

In 127 regular season AHL games, Chipchura has scored 63 points. That is very nearly 0.5 PPG exactly. Not bad for a guy not known for his offensive skills and who played 42 of those games on weak Bulldogs teams. When it mattered most, during the Dogs run to the Calder Cup, he was part of the Dogs shutdown line. They played some of the highest scoring teams in the AHL that year and his line not only did a good job limiting such teams scoring, but often outscored those go to lines for other teams.

In his limited action in the NHL, he has so far produced just under 1 point for every three games played. He did that in a somewhat limited role while adapting to the NHL level.

You say he is still young and we should be patient but you don't seem happy with what he has done so far. What more do you want him to do? So far in his career, he has played his game well and shown he can be a good defensive forward. He has provided secondary scoring at a steady rate and may well improve on his NHL production rate once he is used to the NHL (his current rate isn't bad for a rookie anyways). He works hard and although he has some flaws he can still have a very positive impact in game situations. He sticks up for himself and his teammates whenever he needs to. After just one year in the AHL, Don Lever wanted to make him the captain of the Bulldogs, but couldn't as Kyle started last year in Montreal. And he is still developing. And you aren't happy with that?

Scoring depth is important to all teams and I can see why you might want 3 out and out offensive lines, but we already have good depth (especially on the wing). Therefore, I don't think it needs to be be one of the main things asked of Chipchura. He will contribute to scoring, his pro career so far shows that, but he will bring other elements of his game that other players don't have. If we have to choose between him and Sundin, then for myself and I imagine most people, it's Mats. But I'd rather have both on the team. If we don't get another centre, I hope we give Kyle a good run out as 3rd line centre because he has some good skills that our team could use (good puck possession, big strong centre, good defensively, young and relatively cheap) and although his style of play isn't an exact mirror of the Habs style, a little diversity is no bad thing.

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07-24-2008, 09:36 AM
  #62
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Thank you for chipping in.

I wonder if certain posters have ever heard of the guy in your username. A player not unlike Chip, faster but with arguably less touch, a relentless worker on the ice who seemed to find his way onto winning teams, often as captain.
Indeed, or Rodney Dangerfield for that matter! Every team needs guys like that to stay focused and motivated. I cannot say enough about hard workers with a lot of heart. I'm excited to have Mr. Chips coming up, I even had a Chipchura jersey for about 2 hours before I left it unattended at the Bell Centre. That was a sad day for me.

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07-24-2008, 09:47 AM
  #63
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Agreed !! At best, he will become a mediocre 3rd liner or good 4th liner, nothing more !! Wasting a 1st rounder on this type of player is just beyond me... The guy is severly overrated around here just because he was a so called 1st rounder... He can't even put more than 40 points in the AHL, how can he put 40 in the NHL ? The guy looks like the prototypical 3rd liner that weak offensive teams need. If Chipchura would be a Leafs or Bruins prospect, nobody would even talk about him... let alone his supposely leadership skills and his defensive qualities... He's a trade bait IMO.

That is so much of a bad argument.... Do you know Madden?, Draper?

You don't need to put 60 pts to be an effective shut down center

mediocre 3rd or 4th line... wow how can you say that at this point of his development!

A winning team is not a team with 12 offensive fowards... you'll always need a shut down line to prevent dammages made by guys like ovy, crosby or Kovalchuk.... And Chip could very well be the centerpiece of that line for many years to come...


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-24-2008 at 05:42 PM.
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07-24-2008, 12:31 PM
  #64
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That is so much of a bad argument.... Do you know Madden?, Draper?

You don't need to put 60 pts to be an effective shut down center

mediocre 3rd or 4th line... wow how can you say that at this point of his development!

A winning team is not a team with 12 offensive fowards... you'll always need a shut down line to prevent dammages made by guys like ovy, crosby or Kovalchuk.... And Chip could very well be the centerpiece of that line for many years to come...


I don't believe in this defensive system... I don't want a defensive center as our 3rd line. 4th line okay, but not on the 3rd. I want a team that can roll 3 offensive lines and sorry, but Chipchura doesn't fill that description to be this 3rd line center... The guy IS NOTHING SPECIAL !! Being a good leader and can play defense doesn't make you a 1st rounder !!

Also, the fact that he was a 1st rounder makes me grudge even more, because I just can't support this kind of player going in the fist round. If only he was a kind of pest, play an aggressive physical style and hit like crazy or something, but he is nothing like that. If he was a 2nd or 3rd rounder it would have been alright... the fact that there was much better player available makes me frustrates everytime I hear his name.

Kyle Chipchura = Below average risk, Low Potential =/ 1st rounder in my opinion.

And stop with the "Ohh he is a surefire NHL and future captain" thing, because he hasn't proved anything yet...


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-24-2008 at 05:43 PM.
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07-24-2008, 01:11 PM
  #65
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If it's to be on a fourth line because we have 3 killing scoring line, then be it, but my point remains the same, if he could turn out into one of the best shut down foward in the league, it is worth a first round... I agree with you that you don't draft a guy based on leadership, but at this point, you can't say it is a bad pick, I'd rather have Chip then Eric Chouinard type of pick..

If at 26 years old he is still struggling to make the team then it is a first round waste...
for now, I believe, it is too early to say, but I understand your argument

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07-24-2008, 01:25 PM
  #66
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Last night on 110% they really destroyed Chipchura on speed.
Now I know he is no speedster but what the real deal here.
Does anybody have the actual sprint speeds to compare with anybody on the Habs?
First: Don't watch the show. If less and less people watch it, it will be taken off the air.


As for Chipchura, I want carbo to give him a fair chance to play all year long. We will see if he has anything special about him, or if he is another Jason Ward.

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07-24-2008, 01:35 PM
  #67
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From what I've seen, Chipchura's greatest weakness is his speed. It is below average, but not terrible. With that said, I beleive that his positioning is one of his best assets. This alone allows him to compensate for his lack of top end speed.
Every team will need a center who can play in a defensive role against the other teams top lines, even if he plays on the 3rd or 4th line. Chipchura can do a great job at filling this role. He's also talented enough to provide occasional offense. I feel that he is a very valuable player to the organization.
Look at the Devils squads when they were winning cups. One of their teams strengths during this time was their shutdown line lead by Madden. While I am not claiming that Chipchura will ever become as good as Madden was, I just see similarities in both their game and character. They are both good along the boards, positionally sound and can create moderate amounts of offense at even strength.
Chipchura will never be a 2nd line center on a cup contending team, but this doesn't mean he isn't a valuable player to the club. If the habs are able to create the depth to have him playing on the 4th line, I feel that they will be a VERY solid team. In a couple of years, give him a big speedy winger who is defensively responsible (Lappy isn't that big, but he fits the role) and I bet they would be able to contain some of the better scoring lines in the league.
I have a similar approach to the Lats situation. Most people bash him because they feel he will never be able to play on the 1st or 2nd line, on a cup contending team. So what? Why not have him as the 3rd line winger? If your 3rd line has a winger who can net 20-25 goals a season (maybe... hopefully...), then once again, the club is in great shape.
Some people have put unrealistic expectations towards these younger players, and when they don't reach them, people say "TRADE THEM" because they aren't 1st or second line playes. This is not the way to go about things. People sometimes forget that having strong 3rd and 4th lines can mean the difference between being a cup contender and being a cup favorite. Look at Detroit this year, and Anaheim last year...

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07-24-2008, 02:10 PM
  #68
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Skating can be worked on. Hockey sense can't be taught. From what I've seen in Junior, Chip has the latter in spades. He's always where the puck is for some reason and he's pretty good at anticipating the play. He will be a very effective third/fourth line centre and pker if allowed to develop properly, imo. I can easily see him partnered with Lapierre, for example.

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07-24-2008, 02:16 PM
  #69
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I wouldn't mind seeing him start the year in Hamilton to continue his development but he is also defensively responsible enough to play in the NHL already. I think Chipchura's top end upside would be a top-tier third liner, around 35-40 pts per year playing against the opponent's top line on a nightly basis and having a solid role on the PK. Expecting more would be over-rating his potential IMO.
That to me is outstanding. Championships are won with this type of player.

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07-24-2008, 02:18 PM
  #70
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From what I've seen, Chipchura's greatest weakness is his speed. It is below average, but not terrible. With that said, I beleive that his positioning is one of his best assets. This alone allows him to compensate for his lack of top end speed.
Every team will need a center who can play in a defensive role against the other teams top lines, even if he plays on the 3rd or 4th line. Chipchura can do a great job at filling this role. He's also talented enough to provide occasional offense. I feel that he is a very valuable player to the organization.
Look at the Devils squads when they were winning cups. One of their teams strengths during this time was their shutdown line lead by Madden. While I am not claiming that Chipchura will ever become as good as Madden was, I just see similarities in both their game and character. They are both good along the boards, positionally sound and can create moderate amounts of offense at even strength.
Chipchura will never be a 2nd line center on a cup contending team, but this doesn't mean he isn't a valuable player to the club. If the habs are able to create the depth to have him playing on the 4th line, I feel that they will be a VERY solid team. In a couple of years, give him a big speedy winger who is defensively responsible (Lappy isn't that big, but he fits the role) and I bet they would be able to contain some of the better scoring lines in the league.
I have a similar approach to the Lats situation. Most people bash him because they feel he will never be able to play on the 1st or 2nd line, on a cup contending team. So what? Why not have him as the 3rd line winger? If your 3rd line has a winger who can net 20-25 goals a season (maybe... hopefully...), then once again, the club is in great shape.
Some people have put unrealistic expectations towards these younger players, and when they don't reach them, people say "TRADE THEM" because they aren't 1st or second line playes. This is not the way to go about things. People sometimes forget that having strong 3rd and 4th lines can mean the difference between being a cup contender and being a cup favorite. Look at Detroit this year, and Anaheim last year...
I agree with that.

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07-24-2008, 02:26 PM
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I don't believe in this defensive system... I don't want a defensive center as our 3rd line. 4th line okay, but not on the 3rd. I want a team that can roll 3 offensive lines and sorry, but Chipchura doesn't fill that description to be this 3rd line center... The guy IS NOTHING SPECIAL !! Being a good leader and can play defense doesn't make you a 1st rounder !!

Also, the fact that he was a 1st rounder makes me grudge even more, because I just can't support this kind of player going in the fist round. If only he was a kind of pest, play an aggressive physical style and hit like crazy or something, but he is nothing like that. If he was a 2nd or 3rd rounder it would have been alright... the fact that there was much better player available makes me frustrates everytime I hear his name.

Kyle Chipchura = Below average risk, Low Potential =/ 1st rounder in my opinion.

And stop with the "Ohh he is a surefire NHL and future captain" thing, because he hasn't proved anything yet...
In 36 games this past season he had 24 takeaways and 18 blocked shots.

He is a cornerstone piece of a shutdown line.
Your looking at 12:00ES minutes per game against the opponents best line and 3-4SH anchoring the top PK unit.
He will be a 50-60 takeaway type player with 40-50 blocked shots.
He will have enough offense to produce 10-15 goals and 30-40 points to go along with that defensive game.

You may not be able to understand what kind of value this type of player brings but this is the type of guy who is instrumental in winning cups. I watched him dominate on way to Hamilton winning the Calder cup, second best player on the ice behind Price.

There is more to hockey then putting up flashy offensive numbers.


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07-24-2008, 04:44 PM
  #72
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
What Chipchura will bring to an "offensive minded team like Montreal" is a good two way player, strong in his own end and contributes offensively. Someone who sets a good example and always works hard.

In 127 regular season AHL games, Chipchura has scored 63 points. That is very nearly 0.5 PPG exactly. Not bad for a guy not known for his offensive skills and who played 42 of those games on weak Bulldogs teams. When it mattered most, during the Dogs run to the Calder Cup, he was part of the Dogs shutdown line. They played some of the highest scoring teams in the AHL that year and his line not only did a good job limiting such teams scoring, but often outscored those go to lines for other teams.

In his limited action in the NHL, he has so far produced just under 1 point for every three games played. He did that in a somewhat limited role while adapting to the NHL level.

You say he is still young and we should be patient but you don't seem happy with what he has done so far. What more do you want him to do? So far in his career, he has played his game well and shown he can be a good defensive forward. He has provided secondary scoring at a steady rate and may well improve on his NHL production rate once he is used to the NHL (his current rate isn't bad for a rookie anyways). He works hard and although he has some flaws he can still have a very positive impact in game situations. He sticks up for himself and his teammates whenever he needs to. After just one year in the AHL, Don Lever wanted to make him the captain of the Bulldogs, but couldn't as Kyle started last year in Montreal. And he is still developing. And you aren't happy with that?

Scoring depth is important to all teams and I can see why you might want 3 out and out offensive lines, but we already have good depth (especially on the wing). Therefore, I don't think it needs to be be one of the main things asked of Chipchura. He will contribute to scoring, his pro career so far shows that, but he will bring other elements of his game that other players don't have. If we have to choose between him and Sundin, then for myself and I imagine most people, it's Mats. But I'd rather have both on the team. If we don't get another centre, I hope we give Kyle a good run out as 3rd line centre because he has some good skills that our team could use (good puck possession, big strong centre, good defensively, young and relatively cheap) and although his style of play isn't an exact mirror of the Habs style, a little diversity is no bad thing.

Great post! I agree!

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07-24-2008, 05:01 PM
  #73
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my friend always told me that chip is a slow guy since the habs drafted him it was someting noted in the socuintg reports etc.. maybe they meant below average skating technique ..hes not that slow but hes not fast either thats for sure...

but i did see some nice moves from chip...but comparing to latendresse, he is fast because he is always in movement latendresse would not look this slow if he was not as stationary as he is.
There are poster on this site who apparently think Lats is dceptively fast, right Carey Price!!

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07-24-2008, 05:47 PM
  #74
Beakermania*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuhr86 View Post
In 36 games this past season he had 24 takeaways and 18 blocked shots.

He is a cornerstone piece of a shutdown line.
Your looking at 12:00ES minutes per game against the opponents best line and 3-4SH anchoring the top PK unit.
He will be a 50-60 takeaway type player with 40-50 blocked shots.
He will have enough offense to produce 10-15 goals and 30-40 points to go along with that defensive game.

You may not be able to understand what kind of value this type of player brings but this is the type of guy who is instrumental in winning cups. I watched him dominate on way to Hamilton winning the Calder cup, second best player on the ice behind Price.

There is more to hockey then putting up flashy offensive numbers.
Excellent Post....

Even if it did come from a sens fan....

Beaker

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