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Slats' Head-scratching Summer

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07-25-2008, 09:53 AM
  #201
94now
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
But what is your solution to the fact that players like Jagr and Nylander (and Straka and Shanahan) that the team was built around for the past 3 years were on the downside of their career and the Rangers would desperately need to replace them in 2 years or so anyways?

There's all this "they should have kept all these players that made them successful!" but I don't see any solutions to the above stated facts. What happens when you build your team around aging superstars and then those players falter with old age? What is *your* solution?

All that said, I wouldn't have minded Jagr back for another year or two. I originally wanted Nylander back for another 2 years. But not for 4 years.
Signing Shanahan was a mistake #1, re-signing him was mistake #2. Drury is a great player, but we could not afford him. Thus, mistake #3. Without Drury and Shanahan we could have had Jarg and Nylander for two years. Jarg would have triggered this year and Nylander would agree to 3 year plus 4th performance based. If Jarg and Nylander were around, Straka might have stayed as well. That is how we would have a 1st line. Cuillen should be moved to the wing to compliment Gomez. He would be replaced by Zherdev this season. Avery- Gomez- Cuillen would be a heck of the speedy second line. HBO -3rd line. Prucha-Dubi-Hossa/ Callahan -4th. (Switch 3rd with 4th as you wish). All we would need to do this summer was to add Zherdev to the second line. That would allow the next year be departure of the 1st line, not this year. By that time we would have Russian Wave at the door steps. That would be proper bridging into 2009-2010.

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07-25-2008, 10:09 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Signing Shanahan was a mistake #1, re-signing him was mistake #2. Drury is a great player, but we could not afford him. Thus, mistake #3. Without Drury and Shanahan we could have had Jarg and Nylander for two years. Jarg would have triggered this year and Nylander would agree to 3 year plus 4th performance based. If Jarg and Nylander were around, Straka might have stayed as well. That is how we would have a 1st line. Cuillen should be moved to the wing to compliment Gomez. He would be replaced by Zherdev this season. Avery- Gomez- Cuillen would be a heck of the speedy second line. HBO -3rd line. Prucha-Dubi-Hossa/ Callahan -4th. (Switch 3rd with 4th as you wish). All we would need to do this summer was to add Zherdev to the second line. That would allow the next year be departure of the 1st line, not this year. By that time we would have Russian Wave at the door steps. That would be proper bridging into 2009-2010.
Pretty sure you can't do multi year, performance based contracts. Nylander wanted a 4 year deal for job security and he wasn't willing to give the Rangers any kind of discount on that. Let's not pretend that the Rangers could have magically made it happen if they just really really wished it to be so

HBO is a terrible, terrible, terribly, TERRIBLE, third line. Just the fact that you penciled them in as a 3rd line is incredible, despite backing away from that somewhat in the next sentence. All of those players were/are fourth liners at best.

But going with your plan, the only real difference apparently is that next year, the Rangers wouldn't have Drury. Everything else ends up pretty much the same, if your scenario is followed. I don't doubt that the Rangers would have looked at some FA's (like Naslund) to fill in a lack of veterans in the lineup even if they followed your scheme to the letter.

Dunno, I see the team ending up in pretty much the same place as you want them to, in one or two years. Except they have Drury and not Avery, and didn't have Jagr for an extra year or so.

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07-25-2008, 10:16 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post

Dunno, I see the team ending up in pretty much the same place as you want them to, in one or two years. Except they have Drury and not Avery, and didn't have Jagr for an extra year or so.
Small difference? Well, I predicted we are out of playoff next spring with Renney fired in January. I truly wish I was wrong , but this is NY.
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Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
HBO is a terrible, terrible, terribly, TERRIBLE, third line. Just the fact that you penciled them in as a 3rd line is incredible, despite backing away from that somewhat in the next sentence. All of those players were/are fourth liners at best.
They were our 3rd line for the most of last season... Let's not deviate, though. I'm not here defending that.


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07-25-2008, 10:36 AM
  #204
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They were our 3rd line for the most of last season... Let's not deviate, though. I'm not here defending that.
Last season? They were 4th line. Hollweg, Betts and Orr were most definitely the 4th line all of last year.

The only season that a HBO line (hollweg, betts, ortmeyer I think) might have been a third line was the season right after the lockout.

At any rate, this seems to boil down to some people wanting a few more years of Jagr, believing it would have given the Rangers a few more shots at the cup. I think that point is debatable, and I'm not even completely sure which side I fall on. If Jagr of the post lockout year showed up, then with some team improvements, sure, they'd probably have a much better shot at the cup. If Jagr of last year showed up...not so much. Really hard to tell whether he's being slowed down by old age, or if he just hasn't been comfortable, or what. Jagr is hard to read that way.

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07-25-2008, 10:43 AM
  #205
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Levitate...

I thought Moore played a lot with Hollweg and Ortmeyer and that Betts played a fair amount with Hossa and Jason Ward. Betts also played a fair amount with Prucha. Actually, come to think of it, there was so much shuffling going on that I can't remember.

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07-25-2008, 12:53 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I thought Moore played a lot with Hollweg and Ortmeyer and that Betts played a fair amount with Hossa and Jason Ward. Betts also played a fair amount with Prucha. Actually, come to think of it, there was so much shuffling going on that I can't remember.
Yeah, but that was also 2 years ago, not last year

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07-25-2008, 01:08 PM
  #207
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I was just trying to confirm what you had said.

94 maintained all season long that Betts' line was this team's third line last season, even though it typically had less ice time than the other three lines and in the playoffs had even less than during the regular season. If they truly were a shutdown line to other teams' top lines one would've thought that they would've been out there more than 4-5 minutes per night they were out there against the fourth lines.

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07-25-2008, 02:35 PM
  #208
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Gotcha. Yeah, Renney used that line a few times to shadow other teams top lines (mainly Crosby, I think?) but they certainly weren't used that way often

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07-25-2008, 02:50 PM
  #209
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pumped to see this team, really happy the rnagers didnt keep nylander.....didnt like his style of play and it is very hard to find players who can play the same style.....especially those who arent old....glad the team is going to have one identity this season.....sad to see jagr go but it was time to part ways....

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07-25-2008, 02:56 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
pumped to see this team, really happy the rnagers didnt keep nylander.....didnt like his style of play and it is very hard to find players who can play the same style.....especially those who arent old....glad the team is going to have one identity this season.....sad to see jagr go but it was time to part ways....
trying to entice me... and i'll bite... what didn't you like about his style?

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07-25-2008, 02:58 PM
  #211
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trying to entice me... and i'll bite... what didn't you like about his style?
I'd venture to guess "dipsy, doodly, perimeter player"

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07-25-2008, 04:31 PM
  #212
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trying to entice me... and i'll bite... what didn't you like about his style?
like i said....i dont think that style is the easiest to conform a team to.....the players teams are drafting now arent playing that style and it would take 5 or more years to totally retool a prospect pool and an entire team.....im not a big fan of having multiple identities on one team like some seem okay with.....it didnt work for the rangers last season.....its not that i didnt like the person, or the player....its that i think the decision was the best for the organization and he didnt fit into the future plans......i dont mean to entice you i just have a different feeling on the subject

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07-26-2008, 07:47 AM
  #213
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Lev...

it was a line that seemed to be used inconsistently. Even though they may shadow Crosby one game, they'd take a regular shift against Laroque's line and still have 3-4 less ES minutes than Crosby and with Crosby off the scoreboard, they were credited with a great job. Perhaps the defense pairing also had something to do with the success.

In any event, if we're playing the hindsight game, Sather exercises Nylander's option and last seasn Nylander's a centerman for $2.3MM and only signed to one season. One of Gomer or Drury aren't signed and there's nearly $5MM of cap space left (or $4MM if you don't want to borrow from the following season). And with that space left, the Rangers likely would've been at least as good, if not better, than they were last season.

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07-26-2008, 10:36 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Fletch View Post

In any event, if we're playing the hindsight game, Sather exercises Nylander's option and last seasn Nylander's a centerman for $2.3MM and only signed to one season. One of Gomer or Drury aren't signed and there's nearly $5MM of cap space left (or $4MM if you don't want to borrow from the following season). And with that space left, the Rangers likely would've been at least as good, if not better, than they were last season.
... pending no injury to Nylander. Thanks, Fletch. I didn't think we would've had that much of the cap. That is something to remember

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