HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Speculation: The mastermind is Renney, not Sather

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
07-25-2008, 07:22 AM
  #26
McRanger
Registered User
 
McRanger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,056
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blazephr View Post
Cam Janssens?
Craig Janney? Juneau? He can't possibly mean Cam Janssens.

McRanger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 07:25 AM
  #27
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 18,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
I don't think so...I'm sure he had his input but the buck stops and ends with Sather. However Renney has no more built in excuses....this team better win the division....simply because all the excuses for the teams failures are gone....
Look, the only impact a coach can have on a team with so many new parts as we have is drawing up the big lines. Like set up certain fundamental rules. For example, stretch out the other team, then use the ice that opens up in the neutral zone. And to run certain very basic drills -- often the secret is to not be to advanced early on, thats something you hear from many national team coaches, they say that the key is to concentrate on certain fundamentals when they have a very short time to work with a team before a international tournament.

A well coached teams often got several approches. Diffrent types of outbreak plays et c. In hockey though, it can easily take a full season to implement ONE outlet play. To get one alternative to work well. If not longer.

There is just no way that you can expect us in NY to be as well coached as say the Red Wings. We can't even be on the same planet as them. Detroits coach is Mike Babcock. Hands up anyone who think Mike Babcock can get any other team in the league as well drilled as Detroit after in like three years? There is no way he could go to like Vancouver and have them play as Detroit in 3 years. That team have been built for two and a half decades. With continiuty. Always keeping vets on the team longer then anyone else would have so that they had time to pass the torch to the next generation. Yzerman have said on record how they only kept Larionov for one more year so that Zetterberg would get to play with him.

I think Slats have made a big misstake in not keeping the players longer who managed to make us a top 4 team in the east.

Now we have to start over once again. In 3-4 years it can be expected for us to be a well coached years. In 4-8 years it can be expected for the coaching of the NYR to have a real impact on the results of this team.

What happend after the lockout when Renney outcoached basically every coach in the east was a one time event -- he was ahead of the time and was one of few who read the impact the new rules would have on the game. We can't expect him to work that magic again when everyone now have seen what works.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 08:29 AM
  #28
Trxjw
Retired.
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Land of no calls..
Country: United States
Posts: 17,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
You all missed my point completely. Petr Nedved put up big numbers, but as we learned here the hard way, he was not a #1 center. I just never been a fan of these pass first type of centers, I wasn't a fan of Nylander either, of Cam Janssens, or Adam Oates. I like a guy who is atleast a threat to shoot the puck. How many times did Nylander make you wanna throw a beer through the TV when he passes up a shot right in front of the goalie to pass to a guy who is covered?
I didn't miss your point, I know exactly what you're saying, and I agree with you to an extent. It'd be nice to have a center like Malkin on this team, but we don't have it right now. Gomez is a very good center. He's fast, has great vision, is good on face-offs and backchecks hard. He'll never be a goal scorer, but put the right wingers on his line and he has the talent to be an 85+ point guy.

Quote:
On Zherdev I'm a gotta see it to believe it kinda guy. There is a very good chance he can come in here and light it up making us think letting Jagr go was a great move, but there is the same chance he can struggle and bounce from line to line. How do you know he and Gomez find chemistry? We thought Gomez/Jagr woulda worked but it didn't.
Well I was simply stating that he is good enough to be a first liner. However, I don't think he'll mesh with Gomez. Even Ken Hitchcock said that Zherdev thinks like a playmaker more than a goal scorer. Naslund is a good shooter and should play with Gomez. Zherdev should be bumped to the second line so he has some time to develop and provide some vision for Drury and whoever else is on that line.

Frankly I'd even go as far as to say it would benefit the team if Zherdev and Gomez didn't mesh. It's a valid reason to spread out the scoring. We don't have the second line depth to overload our top line with Naslund, Gomez and Zherdev.

Trxjw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 09:51 AM
  #29
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,687
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by McRanger View Post
Craig Janney? Juneau? He can't possibly mean Cam Janssens.
LOL Craig Janney is the guy I'm thinking of but I'm not sure thats how you spell his name. Where Cam Janssens came form I have no idea lol. Craig Janney was the on the Blues? If so thats who I'm thinking of. Juneau is another good example of the type of player I was talking about.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 09:52 AM
  #30
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,687
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by PromNite View Post
One of these 3 is not like the others.
lol good call, sorry about the brain fart there guys.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 10:08 AM
  #31
Fletch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 21,473
vCash: 500
Janney was on the Blues...a great playmaker...with a non-playmaking centerman (Oates and Janney in particular) Brett Hull doesn't get 700 goals. Many of their assists were as good as goals.

Nedved passed a lot, but he wasn't a good playmaker, but I will also say he did shoot a fair amount. We all wanted Nylander to shoot, but he looked for the best shot. Can't really complain about 26 goals from him though.

Can't say the same for Juneau - never was a fan of the guy so I don't see me giving him a fair shake so I won't comment.

Personally, I never wanted to throw my beer at my TV - I like both the beer and the TV too much to hurt either one of them.

Back on topic regarding Gomez - by your definition of a first line centerman there are probably about 10 in the league, yet there are 30 teams. Gomez is not Crosby or Vinny ,but you're talking about elite players. Not every team is afforded an elite centerman. Not every successful team has an elite centerman. Gomez is this team's top line centerman. The team doesn't need to have a consistent 80-point getter as its centerman to be considered good. If you have the goaltending, the defense, and the balance on wing and depth at center, you can still do pretty well.

Fletch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 01:04 PM
  #32
Blueblood 2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Look, the only impact a coach can have on a team with so many new parts as we have is drawing up the big lines. Like set up certain fundamental rules. For example, stretch out the other team, then use the ice that opens up in the neutral zone. And to run certain very basic drills -- often the secret is to not be to advanced early on, thats something you hear from many national team coaches, they say that the key is to concentrate on certain fundamentals when they have a very short time to work with a team before a international tournament.

A well coached teams often got several approches. Diffrent types of outbreak plays et c. In hockey though, it can easily take a full season to implement ONE outlet play. To get one alternative to work well. If not longer.

There is just no way that you can expect us in NY to be as well coached as say the Red Wings. We can't even be on the same planet as them. Detroits coach is Mike Babcock. Hands up anyone who think Mike Babcock can get any other team in the league as well drilled as Detroit after in like three years? There is no way he could go to like Vancouver and have them play as Detroit in 3 years. That team have been built for two and a half decades. With continiuty. Always keeping vets on the team longer then anyone else would have so that they had time to pass the torch to the next generation. Yzerman have said on record how they only kept Larionov for one more year so that Zetterberg would get to play with him.

I think Slats have made a big misstake in not keeping the players longer who managed to make us a top 4 team in the east.

Now we have to start over once again. In 3-4 years it can be expected for us to be a well coached years. In 4-8 years it can be expected for the coaching of the NYR to have a real impact on the results of this team.

What happend after the lockout when Renney outcoached basically every coach in the east was a one time event -- he was ahead of the time and was one of few who read the impact the new rules would have on the game. We can't expect him to work that magic again when everyone now have seen what works.

Renney never outcoached anybody. This was Sather's doing, by bringing in a group of guys who played the season before and came out of a life long system they were familiar with. Letting the Czechs do their own thing is what I will give Renney credit for. We were able to hit the ice running while other teams were still playing "getting to know you", with the rules and each other. We were also blessed with Hank and a career year from Prucha. Nothing to do with great coaching stategy.

Blueblood 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 01:09 PM
  #33
Bluenote13
Believe In Henke
 
Bluenote13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BKLYN, NYC
Posts: 24,156
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
Renney never outcoached anybody. This was Sather's doing, by bringing in a group of guys who played the season before and came out of a life long system they were familiar with. Letting the Czechs do their own thing is what I will give Renney credit for. We were able to hit the ice running while other teams were still playing "getting to know you", with the rules and each other. We were also blessed with Hank and a career year from Prucha. Nothing to do with great coaching stategy.
"Renney is still making the decisions. That is good for 6 losses by itself." - blueblood 2

Your bias is with Renney, we get it.

Bluenote13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 01:46 PM
  #34
Blueblood 2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 874
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenote13 View Post
"Renney is still making the decisions. That is good for 6 losses by itself." - blueblood 2

Your bias is with Renney, we get it.
If I am biased, it is for Sather because that is where the facts lead me. He is the boss and has done a terrific job. Renney gets credit from me for successfully handling Jagr, which is no small task. The subject here proposed that Renney may be the mastermind. The facts visible to a fan, do not support that, in my view. Renney needs to accomplish a bit more before he gets "great mastermind" status from me.

Blueblood 2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 01:52 PM
  #35
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 18,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
Renney never outcoached anybody. This was Sather's doing, by bringing in a group of guys who played the season before and came out of a life long system they were familiar with. Letting the Czechs do their own thing is what I will give Renney credit for. We were able to hit the ice running while other teams were still playing "getting to know you", with the rules and each other. We were also blessed with Hank and a career year from Prucha. Nothing to do with great coaching stategy.
Sorry kiddo but you don't got a clue what you are talking about.

Like the diffrence between Nylanders lifelong system and Jagr/Straka's/Rucinsky's system from the Czech Rep is very very big.

And besides, we didn't play Swedish nor Czech hockey at all. I don't think you even got the slightest idea about the X and O's in hockey. We played the system Tom Renney developed for Hockey Canada, something he worked years with. A system he handpicked players for. Speedy LWers (Straka, Rucinsky, Prucha and co), centers who could take advantage of the ice that opened up in the neutral zone when our LWers left early (Nylander, Moore, Betts, Cullen and Gomez), RWers who got more of a free role offensivly. D's that could move the puck.

Another point that completely takes down your argument is that when Nylander, Jagr, Straka, Rucinsky and co left Europe there was still a redline offside rule over here. That wasn't removed untill 1998. Jagr had not played more hockey without a redline then what Keith Primaue had.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 05:04 PM
  #36
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 18,894
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueblood 2 View Post
If I am biased, it is for Sather because that is where the facts lead me. He is the boss and has done a terrific job. Renney gets credit from me for successfully handling Jagr, which is no small task. The subject here proposed that Renney may be the mastermind. The facts visible to a fan, do not support that, in my view. Renney needs to accomplish a bit more before he gets "great mastermind" status from me.
If you look at how most teams played the first season after the lockout, and compare that to how they play now -- Renney was very much ahead of the bunch.

Today its all about puckpossesion, basically every team in the east that year had either a trap or no-misstake approch.

And with trapping teams I mean teams that try to create offense first and foremost from setting up in the neutralzone. Not teams that play organized defensive hockey when they loose the puck.

The no-misstake approch is characterized by teams like Atlanta who did less well and Ottawa/Buffalo who did better. They try to play a high defense and then counterattack ASAP; that way they will cut down allot on pucks lost in the transition game.

The problem is that thoose defensive scheames that where built around D's stepping up on their guy high up ice didn't win as many battles as they had before the lockout. Guys like Nylander and co where "reborn" and when the other team couldn't clutch and grab they would skate eights around guys like Chris Sutton and others.

Today we see a much more diffrent approch, the successful teams are the ones who takes risks and carry the play. Teams who moves the puck and let the other team face all the downside with the new rules.

Renney was right on that from the time our guys hit the ice after the lockout. Right at it. He let all our D's move the puck D to D more then any other team -- especially Rozi and Malik. We always took our time in the transition game so that the other team would back down and then we used the open ice in the neutralzone.

Ola is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
07-25-2008, 10:09 PM
  #37
BwayBshirt
Registered User
 
BwayBshirt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: My NY State of Mind
Country: United States
Posts: 3,406
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fletch View Post
I think Renney wants to see hard-working players who grind it out and play good two-way hockey. A guy like Zherdev doesn't seem like a Renny player - he reeks of Sather. Redden is a puck moving defenseman - both Renney and Sather like that, but I'm sure Renney would feel more comfortable if he had a guy like Orpik on his blueline, and perhaps a guy like Campbell (just for the PP). So it's a compromise between what the two wants (and based on what was available and for what price). I'm sure the team that currently exists wasn't the Rangers 1st, 2nd or 3rd choice, rather it was what they were able to get at the prices they were willing to play in the positions in which they needed help.

sather was quoted during an interview on msg that redden was rated as the highest d-man on their ufa board ahead of campbell.

as for my small $.02 on this topic i agree with pretty much the rest of what you said that these 2 men put their heads together and compromised on most of what they did. with the main point still being that they thought it out together.

BwayBshirt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:24 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.