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Top Six forwards. who's number 7

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Old
07-28-2008, 01:35 AM
  #26
HamrlikTheStud*
 
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Originally Posted by Angrychair View Post
Funny, cause thats exactly what you're doing with Tanguay.
No... I'm praising a player who has proven his worth... Just watch his stats... I just don't have to argue on this. His stats prove that he is, until some other player on the Habs proves otherwise, our best player and our most proved player. He also have tons of experience and is better defensively than Kovalev. He also proved he can get 80 points in a season several times. And he can play against the other team's best line.

Higgins was praised and over-hyped when his best season was 38 points. I'm praising a proven player. Some people were praising a first year guy who had a good, not great, rookie season, and saying he was a lock for 40-40-80.

Oh... and tell me where I wrote something who is false...

Tanguay HAS a great talent.
Tanguay HAS a great hockey sense.
Tanguay IS a master at pasing the puck.
Tanguay IS a complete player.
Tanguay IS, obviously, our best player.

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07-28-2008, 01:53 AM
  #27
Rushin Joo
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Tanguay is good no doubt, but nowhere near as good as you make him out to be. What stood out to me is when you said in his best year he's better than Kovalev. Kovy had 95 points in his best season compared to Tanguays 81. How does that make Tanguay better? Sure he's a better passer and better two way player and thats it. He's not much of a physical threat either.

Also, Tanguay hit 80 points only once so far. Not several times.

I expect him to be our second point getter next year behind Kovy with around 75 points. Of course thats assuming Kovy doesn't have an 'off' year.

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07-28-2008, 02:01 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by bentheprop View Post
Higgins should be on the 3rd line. He simply doesn't have the offensive ability of Tanguay or Kovy and he doesn't have the offensive upside of the Kostitsyns. Ideally he should be on the 3rd line providing solid 2-way play with a nice offensive spark.

+ 384765874356437864432657924397834


Kovalev > Tanguay > Koivu > Plekanec > Andrei = Sergei > Higgins

Higgins is the odd man out, sorry but he doesn't have the offensive skills that the other six players has. Easy answer !!


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-28-2008 at 09:34 AM.
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07-28-2008, 02:03 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
+ 384765874356437864432657924397834


Kovalev > Tanguay > Koivu > Plekanec > Andrei = Sergei > Higgins

Higgins is the odd man out, sorry but he doesn't have the offensive skills that the other six players has. Easy answer !!
I bet you asked Chris out once and he rejected you.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-28-2008 at 09:34 AM.
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07-28-2008, 02:06 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
+ 384765874356437864432657924397834


Kovalev > Tanguay > Koivu > Plekanec > Andrei = Sergei > Higgins

Higgins is the odd man out, sorry but he doesn't have the offensive skills that the other six players has. Easy answer !!

fixed

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Old
07-28-2008, 08:20 AM
  #31
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I don't understand why so many people are splitting up the AK-Pleks-Kovy line in their projections. They are dominant for a good part of the season last year. Is everyone forgetting just how good they were together? I know it is tempting to put the Kostitsyn's together, but as long as Kovy is still around and they are still clicking, I think you have to stick with the AK-Pleks-Kovy line.

A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Tanguay - Koivu - Latendresse
Higgins - Chipchura - S. Kostitsyn
Kostopoulos - Lapierre - Laraque

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07-28-2008, 08:26 AM
  #32
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What is with people hating on Chris Higgins? The guy works his ass off every night and plays both ends of the rink. Despite not having any offensive abilities ( ) he still scored 27 goals. I'd be willing to bet he scores 30+ next season.

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07-28-2008, 08:40 AM
  #33
Patty Roy
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
Simply nonsense. Higgins is a better player than Tanguay at this point in time, I am really not sure what people have been watching over the past 2 seasons. Calgary gave AT away for a draft pick because...?
I don't think that i can agree with this.

Calgary gave up on Tanguay for a few reasons....wasn't a fit with Keenan and big contract being the two main reasons.

I'm higher on Higgins than most here...a proven 25 goal scorer who, IMO, is capable of more. But im not sure that i would say that Higgins is better than Tanguay at this point.

Back on topic...the 7th forward this season will either be Sergei Kostitsyn or Chris Higgins, depending on how the lines click in camp.

As of today, i would assume that we would be looking at the following:

Andrei Kostitsyn-Tomas Plekanec-Alex Kovalev
Alex Tanguay-Saku Koivu-Sergei Kostitsyn
Chris Higgins-Kyle Chipchura-Guillaume Latendresse
Begin/Kostopolous-Maxim Lapierre-Georges Laraque

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07-28-2008, 08:41 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
What is with people hating on Chris Higgins? The guy works his ass off every night and plays both ends of the rink. Despite not having any offensive abilities ( ) he still scored 27 goals. I'd be willing to bet he scores 30+ next season.
I know that for me, it has nothing to do with hating a guy but more to think that he will be mor appropriate on a 3rd line than a guy like SK though it can be interchangeable. Hoping though that for either sake, that you'll have a more offensive centerman than Chipchura on the 3rd.

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07-28-2008, 08:46 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Whitesnake View Post
I know that for me, it has nothing to do with hating a guy but more to think that he will be mor appropriate on a 3rd line than a guy like SK though it can be interchangeable. Hoping though that for either sake, that you'll have a more offensive centerman than Chipchura on the 3rd.
I agree with that and I have no problem slotting Higgins on the 3rd line because IMO he would be one of the best 3rd line players in the league. And ya, Chipchura isn't very offensive but it will depend on what kind of style Carbo is going to go with. In an all out offense style then Chipchura doesn't fit the 3rd line center role (yet, I think he can be that guy someday). But I think he can play the 3rd line role in a defense mode. Of course Sundin would change all of this, but that's another story.

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07-28-2008, 08:59 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Angrychair View Post
Tanguay is good no doubt, but nowhere near as good as you make him out to be. What stood out to me is when you said in his best year he's better than Kovalev. Kovy had 95 points in his best season compared to Tanguays 81. How does that make Tanguay better? Sure he's a better passer and better two way player and thats it. He's not much of a physical threat either.

Also, Tanguay hit 80 points only once so far. Not several times.

I expect him to be our second point getter next year behind Kovy with around 75 points. Of course thats assuming Kovy doesn't have an 'off' year.
I projected Tanguay (on the NHL board) to have a 77 pts season and to be our scorer leader, in front of Kovalev (75 pts), Plekanec (72 pts) and Kostitsyn (63 pts). I'm not overhyping him, but he's got many qualities. And he's one of the best playmaker wingers in the league. He's got a big, see great talent. He's so clever with the puck... And IMO, we lacked of this type of player.

People can say whatever they like, but Kovalev is not as clever as Tanguay with the puck. Oh don't get me wrong, I love Kovy. But he's not as clever with the puck.

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07-28-2008, 09:35 AM
  #37
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I don't see how you can say Sergei is better offensively than the 27g 50+ point Chris Higgins.... Maybe in 2 or 3 years he will be, but right now Higgins is better.

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07-28-2008, 09:48 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I don't see how you can say Sergei is better offensively than the 27g 50+ point Chris Higgins.... Maybe in 2 or 3 years he will be, but right now Higgins is better.
Just like A.Kostitsyn wasn't as good offensively as Ryder before last season started?

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07-28-2008, 09:54 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
I don't see how you can say Sergei is better offensively than the 27g 50+ point Chris Higgins.... Maybe in 2 or 3 years he will be, but right now Higgins is better.
Let the kids dick around all day about how my guy is better than your guy, it's just a matter of who plays well with whom and can get the most out of their game. If a Higgins can play well alongside a Chipchura, and it allows Tanguay or someone else, be it Lats or S.Kost. to be in a more favorable position in terms of production, great.

It's not top 6 or 7 or bottom 6, it's structuring abilities to be more effective.

S.Kost may have the ability to put up better numbers than Higgins, he'll get a chance to prove it. Tanguay will have a chance to prove he can return to being an elite offenive talent and not what many have dismissed him as, he has millions of reasons to do so.

How the lines shake out doesn't get determined until they know if another offensive type player is added be it Sundin or a trade.

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07-28-2008, 09:56 AM
  #40
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Spread the scoring out over three offensive lines:
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn
Tanguay - Lehoux - Latendress
Kostopoulos - Lapierre - Laraque

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Old
07-28-2008, 10:05 AM
  #41
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Originally Posted by teddygmr View Post
Spread the scoring out over three offensive lines:
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn
Tanguay - Lehoux - Latendress
Kostopoulos - Lapierre - Laraque

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Old
07-28-2008, 10:07 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by teddygmr View Post
Spread the scoring out over three offensive lines:
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn
Tanguay - Lehoux - Latendress
Kostopoulos - Lapierre - Laraque
Le who?

I don't think so

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Old
07-28-2008, 10:27 AM
  #43
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Hmmm... Well even though we can try to identify our "top 6" forwards, it's not likely that Carbonneau will use them in that way. He'll probably disperse thim amongst the top 3 lines.

My guesses:

Without Sundin >>

Tanguay-Koivu-Latendresse
A.Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Higgins-Chipchura-S.Kostitsyn
Begin/Kostopoulos-Lapierre-Laraque/Kostopoulos

With Sundin >>

Tanguay-Sundin-S. Kostitsyn
A.Kostitsyn-Plekanec-Kovalev
Higgins-Koivu-Latendresse
Begin/Kostopoulos-Lapierre/Chipchura-Laraque/Kostopoulos

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Old
07-28-2008, 10:33 AM
  #44
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Without Sundin:

A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Tanguay - Koivu - Latendresse
Higgins - Chipchura - S. Kostitsyn
Kostopoulos - Lapierre - Laraque


With Sundin:

Tanguay - Sundin - Latendresse
A. Kostitsyn - Plekanec - Kovalev
Higgins - Koivu - S. Kostitsyn
Laraque - Chipchura - Lapierre

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07-28-2008, 10:56 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
Simply nonsense. Higgins is a better player than Tanguay at this point in time, I am really not sure what people have been watching over the past 2 seasons. Calgary gave AT away for a draft pick because...?
2006-2007 Tanguay made a PPG... Last year he made more point than Higgins while playing on a grumpy old fart line, and being use for PK. And the +/- of Tanguay is in a far away galaxy using the force to overthrow the despotic empire compared to Higgins.


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07-28-2008, 10:59 AM
  #46
Erika
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
What is with people hating on Chris Higgins? The guy works his ass off every night and plays both ends of the rink. Despite not having any offensive abilities ( ) he still scored 27 goals. I'd be willing to bet he scores 30+ next season.
I'm sorry ?! What ?! Works his ass off every night ?!?! The guy dissapeared in 50% of the games we saw in the season and I'm not even talking about his poor playoffs performance 2 times in a row.

Most of the times, Higgins was doing nothing, floating around on the ice and when he had some scoring chances, 19 out of 20 times he missed the net or shot the puck on the goalie's chest !! I mean come on, Higgins was the most inconsistent 25 goals scorer I've ever seen !! Put another player with some decent offensive skills in Higgins place and he would have at least 35-35= 70 points.



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Old
07-28-2008, 11:07 AM
  #47
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Originally Posted by mirokarosu View Post
SKost - Plekanec - AKost
Tanguay - Koivu - Kovalev
Higgins - Chipchura - Latendresse
Kostopoulos - Lapierre - Laraque

This way we bring SKost and AKost back to their natural positions.
unless they spent their summer powerskating together, I don't see how these 2 could end up being paired on the third line.

but the kos-plek-kos line really exites me, I'd love to see them playing together...

to me, andrei should play as a RW... he is obviously more comfortable on the right side. scoring 26 goals from the left wing, finding a spot for him on the right side in the top 6 should be one of our priorities next season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post

It's not top 6 or 7 or bottom 6, it's structuring abilities to be more effective.

.
Its so true... that's why I have a problem with playing lats on the bottom two lines... not because its called the 3rd or 4th line, but because the type of player that would make him produce are all on our top 6.

he didn't play sensationnal hockey, but he was never really paired with players who made him look good either...

where do you think he stands in the lineup next season?


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-28-2008 at 12:56 PM.
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07-28-2008, 11:17 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
I'm sorry ?! What ?! Works his ass off every night ?!?! The guy dissapeared in 50% of the games we saw in the season and I'm not even talking about his poor playoffs performance 2 times in a row.

Most of the times, Higgins was doing nothing, floating around on the ice and when he had some scoring chances, 19 out of 20 times he missed the net or shot the puck on the goalie's chest !! I mean come on, Higgins was the most inconsistent 25 goals scorer I've ever seen !! Put another player with some decent offensive skills in Higgins place and he would have at least 35-35= 70 points.


Feel free to question his offensive ceiling, but not his work ethic. Do you think Higgins didn't convert on more chances because he didn't try hard enough? No, its because he's not a natural goal scorer. The fact that he had so many goals without having a magical touch around the net just accentuates the fact that he is a hard worker. His stats also might not have been great in the playoffs, but remember he had to play C until Koivu came back.

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07-28-2008, 12:05 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
Its so true... that's why I have a problem with playing lats on the bottom two lines... not because its called the 3rd or 4th line, but because the type of player that would make him produce are all on our top 6.

he didn't play sensationnal hockey, but he was never really paired with players who made him look good either...

where do you think he stands in the lineup next season?
It's a Catch 22, Lats will produce more with a set up man rather than a grind line, at least imo. The line itself may not produce as much, if that makes any sense. Lats needs a setup man to improve but if he's not improved he doesn't get a setup man.

What's best for Lats may not be best for the team as it's not simply about him.

Higgins can play on a line that involves puck pressure then making the opposition pay for turnovers, Lats can't. I'd like to see the younger Kostityn with Higgins and Chipchura, and Koivu with Lats and Tanguay.

If that worked, it would give tremendous balance and different looks from every line. It depends on how far along Latendresse and Chipchura re next year, smae goes for Lapierre.

If 2 out of those 3 aren't improved, then it's a grind line for them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erika Kostitsyn View Post
I'm sorry ?! What ?! Works his ass off every night ?!?! The guy dissapeared in 50% of the games we saw in the season and I'm not even talking about his poor playoffs performance 2 times in a row.

Most of the times, Higgins was doing nothing, floating around on the ice and when he had some scoring chances, 19 out of 20 times he missed the net or shot the puck on the goalie's chest !! I mean come on, Higgins was the most inconsistent 25 goals scorer I've ever seen !! Put another player with some decent offensive skills in Higgins place and he would have at least 35-35= 70 points.


How many 35-35 guys were in the league last year ? There seems to be a shortage of decently skilled players.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-28-2008 at 12:57 PM.
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Old
07-28-2008, 03:18 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
It's a Catch 22, Lats will produce more with a set up man rather than a grind line, at least imo. The line itself may not produce as much, if that makes any sense. Lats needs a setup man to improve but if he's not improved he doesn't get a setup man.

What's best for Lats may not be best for the team as it's not simply about him.

That's what bothers me, we've brought him on the team... but for what purpose?

to be a slow 3rd liner, or a power forward on the top 6? and if chips plays on the 3rd next year, there is NO way that lats is going to be on his line... thats my humble opinion.

but like u said, if lats did not improve, he doesnt deserve to hold a roster spot.

I like the idea of tanguay - koivu and lats ... to me, lats has to play with koivu, otherwise I don't see his purpose on the team. (assuming the plek line stays the same)

when you look at everything, Sundin is the missing key... if he comes, we'll have all we need to ensure our offense is 1rst class, and well balanced. having s.kos/higgins/lats play with koivu instead of chipchura would have an instant impact on our team.

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