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What would Jiri Hudler bring in a trade

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Old
07-25-2008, 04:42 PM
  #26
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positives - hands , good shot and play maker .

negatives - real small and not great skating .

ceiling - solid powerplay artist , adds scoring punch and play making to a 3rd line .

worth - somewhere between the 45th and 90th pick .

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07-25-2008, 06:52 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by probertrules24 View Post
Not saying Hudler is better or worse then any of these guys just used them as comparisons. Points to TOI

Robert Nilsson 10 31 41 13:55 1st rd (15) will make 1.5 then 2 mill
Andrew Cogliano 18 27 45 13:39 1st rd (25)
Jussi Jokinen 16 26 42 14:27 6th rd (192) will make 1.875 next year
Joe Pavelski 19 21 40 14:06 7th rd (205) will make 1.500 then 1.775
Brooks Laich 21 16 37 14:02 6th rd (193) will make 1.700 2.100 2.400 the next 3 yrs
Jiri Hudler 13 29 42 13:10 2nd rd (58) will make 1.150 this year

I think if we want to compare Hudler's (scoring production and TOI not his defensive play) to somebody I would compare him to Jussi Jokinen.
When it comes to salary that he will earn Brooks Laich signed when he was an rfa for cap hit of 2.067 mill.

Also to compare there projections:
Nilsson-Top six winger
Cogliano-First line center
Jokinen-Top six forward
Pavelski-Second line center
Laich-Fourth line forward
Hudler-Top six forward

To answer the question though I don't think the wings would be looking to trade Hudler because he will be cheap and that will help us afford the other stars.


Jussi Jokinen? The guy that got 14 points in his 20 games playing alongside Lecavalier? Great comparison there. Jokinen playing on TBs first line in an "offense first/do whatever the hell you want because we're going to lose anyway" is very much akin to Hudler being centered by the likes of Draper, Helm, and if hes like, the offensive stud in Filppula.

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07-25-2008, 07:16 PM
  #28
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re

Nik Antopov

for

Hudler

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Old
07-25-2008, 07:20 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by KevinP View Post
I love Jiri Hudler. I know for a fact that he had the best points to ice time ratio on the Wings and I would suggest he is one of the best in the league, if not the best.

He got 14 pts in the playoffs playing mostlhy on the 4th. line and 2nd. pp unit. He has great vision, superb passing ability and a accurate shot(although he could shoot more). His heart is bigger than his body and both his skating and defensive play have improved big time.

I'm hoping that Babcock will give him a chance to play with Hossa and Franzen on the 2nd. line (most "experts" and Wings fans have Filppula on that line) and that will be the 2nd. pp unit.

The biggest problem for the Smurf is the depth of the Wings forwards and if he doesn't get 2nd. line time, he gets dropped down to the 4th line.

Huds is also one of the guys who might be moved to clear salary cap space to keep Hossa.

So my question is , what's he worth to other teams.
I think he brings cap space to the wings...and, of course, draft picks...late ones so the Redwings continue to show the NHL how to draft quality players in the later rounds

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07-26-2008, 04:00 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post

The same type of side issues don't exist with Hudler and Grabovski. Basically Hudler and Grabs are two players who are similar and are having the same type of issues regarding breaking into a lineup. This is an apples and apples issues, only Hudler is a shinier and more ripe apple.
Is that a joke?
Hudler played in 81 games last regular season and every single playoff game.
He scored over 40 point in the regular season and added key game winning goals in the playoffs on route to the stanley cup.

Hudler is tried and proven in the NHL, Grabovski is a flake who has proven nothing in the NHL. The only thing they have in common is birth year.

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07-27-2008, 02:09 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Boomhower View Post
Is that a joke?
Hudler played in 81 games last regular season and every single playoff game.
He scored over 40 point in the regular season and added key game winning goals in the playoffs on route to the stanley cup.

Hudler is tried and proven in the NHL, Grabovski is a flake who has proven nothing in the NHL. The only thing they have in common is birth year.
Did you even read my posts?

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07-27-2008, 08:15 AM
  #32
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Hudler is the one that was almost traded to Phoenix for Teppo Numminen?

Dont think his value has changed too much. He'd be an excellent trade chip (young, cheap and talented) to acquire a quality veteran UFA to fill whatever need Detroit might have nearer the deadline.

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07-28-2008, 02:47 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psycho Papa Joe View Post
Hudler > Grabovski

Grabovski = 2nd rounder and 5th rounder

Therefore:

Hudler > 2nd rounder and 5th rounder
but things dont work like that.

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07-28-2008, 03:22 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Hudler is the one that was almost traded to Phoenix for Teppo Numminen?

Dont think his value has changed too much. He'd be an excellent trade chip (young, cheap and talented) to acquire a quality veteran UFA to fill whatever need Detroit might have nearer the deadline.

You might think that, but Detroit mgt. doesn't. The guy put up amazing #'s for the ice time he got, see's the ice well, and has great instincts in the offensive zone and can play defensively as well as an average top 6 guy. He can fit into the top 6 on at least 15 teams in the league. His scoring depth is one of the reasons Detroit won the cup. For a guy to pot as many points as he did on the 4 line for most of the playoffs...

Thats worth more than a veteran pick-up no matter what time of year.

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07-28-2008, 12:04 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
You might think that, but Detroit mgt. doesn't. The guy put up amazing #'s for the ice time he got, see's the ice well, and has great instincts in the offensive zone and can play defensively as well as an average top 6 guy. He can fit into the top 6 on at least 15 teams in the league. His scoring depth is one of the reasons Detroit won the cup. For a guy to pot as many points as he did on the 4 line for most of the playoffs...

Thats worth more than a veteran pick-up no matter what time of year.
I love that Wings fans keep trying to throw Hudler under the bus while perpetually BJing Filppula, who has managed a massive career high of 17 assists while spending most of his time with perennial 20+ goal guys in Franzen, Cleary, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, and Zetterberg. Hilarious.

Babcock makes it pretty apparent he hates Hudler and wants him gone. He promotes him to the 2nd line for a few games, with new linemates, always against strong competition, and immediately jettisons him back down to the 4th line. Meanwhile, Flip wastes a spot in the top-6.

If Hudler actually got a chance on the 2nd line he'd put upt 20-40-60 every season, at least.

If Pavel Datsyuk came into the league with Babcock for a coach he would've been placed on the 4th line and eventually traded or sent back to Russia.

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07-28-2008, 12:18 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
I love that Wings fans keep trying to throw Hudler under the bus while perpetually BJing Filppula, who has managed a massive career high of 17 assists while spending most of his time with perennial 20+ goal guys in Franzen, Cleary, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, and Zetterberg. Hilarious.

Babcock makes it pretty apparent he hates Hudler and wants him gone. He promotes him to the 2nd line for a few games, with new linemates, always against strong competition, and immediately jettisons him back down to the 4th line. Meanwhile, Flip wastes a spot in the top-6.

If Hudler actually got a chance on the 2nd line he'd put upt 20-40-60 every season, at least.

If Pavel Datsyuk came into the league with Babcock for a coach he would've been placed on the 4th line and eventually traded or sent back to Russia.
I don't know if he hates Hudler, or likes having him as the ace in the hole. Most teams stack the best players against Detroit's top 2 lines trying to contain Zetterberg and Datsyuk. Now you've got Hudler on the 4th line against anyone Babcock wants, thats an ace in the hole.

As far as Filppula goes, yeah his production wasn't what I expected, but I do see a higher ceiling for Filppula then I do for Hudler. Both are high ceilings IMO.

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07-28-2008, 12:58 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Vatican Roulette View Post
You might think that, but Detroit mgt. doesn't.
Detroit's management? Your post sounds more like your own opinion. Incidentially this is the same management that was perfectly happy to trade him for Numminen.

Quote:
The guy put up amazing #'s for the ice time he got, see's the ice well, and has great instincts in the offensive zone and can play defensively as well as an average top 6 guy. He can fit into the top 6 on at least 15 teams in the league. His scoring depth is one of the reasons Detroit won the cup. For a guy to pot as many points as he did on the 4 line for most of the playoffs...

Thats worth more than a veteran pick-up no matter what time of year.
He put up nice numbers but lets not get into hyperbolic praise. He got 13 minutes a game, top 9 among Detroit forwards. That's quite reasonable.

Looking at his progress since he would have been traded for Numminen:

76 games 15 goals and 25 points.
81 games 13 goals and 42 points.

There are lots of 25 point young players. Has he suddenly improved massively? When you see his power play points jumped to 15 in his second season, you can see where the extra points came from. That's the same difference between a 40 and 25 point player. It seems reasonable to say his improvement has come largely from getting ice time on Detroit's power play rather than any "amazing" breakthrough.

Sure he is obviously talented and could breakout to be a real nice player. He could be the next Patrick Sharp who was lost in Philadephia's depth. That's why he could fetch you a top UFA. If he didnt have that promise, he wouldnt. He's young, cheap, and most importantly to Detroit, he's disposable.

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07-29-2008, 05:14 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Gwyddbwyll View Post
Detroit's management? Your post sounds more like your own opinion. Incidentially this is the same management that was perfectly happy to trade him for Numminen.



He put up nice numbers but lets not get into hyperbolic praise. He got 13 minutes a game, top 9 among Detroit forwards. That's quite reasonable.

Looking at his progress since he would have been traded for Numminen:

76 games 15 goals and 25 points.
81 games 13 goals and 42 points.

There are lots of 25 point young players. Has he suddenly improved massively? When you see his power play points jumped to 15 in his second season, you can see where the extra points came from. That's the same difference between a 40 and 25 point player. It seems reasonable to say his improvement has come largely from getting ice time on Detroit's power play rather than any "amazing" breakthrough.

Sure he is obviously talented and could breakout to be a real nice player. He could be the next Patrick Sharp who was lost in Philadephia's depth. That's why he could fetch you a top UFA. If he didnt have that promise, he wouldnt. He's young, cheap, and most importantly to Detroit, he's disposable.
Being young and cheap makes him indisposable.

The Wings are trying to lock up 2 more players to contracts north of $6M/yr over the coming season to add to the 3 they already have. They need all the cheap and productive players they can get their hands on.

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07-30-2008, 05:11 PM
  #39
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How about 2 first round draft choices from Pittsburgh?

This guy killed us in the playoffs. He's very god.

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07-30-2008, 05:41 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
I love that Wings fans keep trying to throw Hudler under the bus while perpetually BJing Filppula, who has managed a massive career high of 17 assists while spending most of his time with perennial 20+ goal guys in Franzen, Cleary, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, and Zetterberg. Hilarious.

Babcock makes it pretty apparent he hates Hudler and wants him gone. He promotes him to the 2nd line for a few games, with new linemates, always against strong competition, and immediately jettisons him back down to the 4th line. Meanwhile, Flip wastes a spot in the top-6.

If Hudler actually got a chance on the 2nd line he'd put upt 20-40-60 every season, at least.

If Pavel Datsyuk came into the league with Babcock for a coach he would've been placed on the 4th line and eventually traded or sent back to Russia.
I think that Babcock dislikes Hudler because of his defensive game. He is not a strong defensive center, he is not a better Wing for Detroit's 2nd line than Samuelsson, Cleary or Franzen because of his defensive game. He is certainly not a better defensive Center than Filppula. He has earned his powerplay time, but only finished the year with 5 more points than Filppula while playing a minute of powerplay time, on average, more than Filppula per game.

Filppula's game fits into Detroit's top 6 philosophy, Hudler's does not. And as much as some people on here want to say "his defensive game has improved" he is still not a better defensive forward than Cleary, Filppula, Zetterberg, Franzen, Datsyuk, or Hossa and all of them are more than capable of putting up more points in a year than Hudler. I'd put Hudler's defensive game about on par with Tomas Holmstrom, and I'm not sure if that is a good thing.

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07-30-2008, 05:43 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Being young and cheap makes him indisposable.

The Wings are trying to lock up 2 more players to contracts north of $6M/yr over the coming season to add to the 3 they already have. They need all the cheap and productive players they can get their hands on.
If resigning Filppula means that we have a better chance at signing Zetterberg, Hossa and Franzen in the off season I am all for Hudler being gone. If we sign those three, we have a top 6 locked up long term that is better than any teams top 6 in the NHL. Hudler will command more than the money he is making now in next off season, and he wont be cracking the Wings top 6. He is disposable.

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07-30-2008, 06:57 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
If resigning Filppula means that we have a better chance at signing Zetterberg, Hossa and Franzen in the off season I am all for Hudler being gone. If we sign those three, we have a top 6 locked up long term that is better than any teams top 6 in the NHL. Hudler will command more than the money he is making now in next off season, and he wont be cracking the Wings top 6. He is disposable.
It doesn't. Quite the opposite in fact.

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07-30-2008, 08:34 PM
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It doesn't. Quite the opposite in fact.
Here's what I mean by it, resigning Filppula makes it so the Wings brass has to make some decisions financially with some players that they may have not made decisions like that if Filppula signed for less. It basically means that someone like Lilja is for sure going to be gone.

Hudler could be a good guy to move, along with Lilja to give us some Cap relief this year and for the Future. I am certain Hudler will be getting $2-2.5 million next summer, especially if Filppula is signing for $3 million. So we can either decide to go a route with signing Zetterberg, Franzen, Hudler, Kopecky and maybe Samuelsson and letting Hossa go, while having a good amount of space under the Cap to work. Or we could go with Zetterberg, Franzen, and Hossa say good bye to Hudler, Samuelsson and maybe Kopecky and being tighter around the Cap, but giving young guys like Emmerton, Leino, etc. call ups to fill the voids left.

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07-30-2008, 08:36 PM
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Or sign Z, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler and trade Filppula.

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07-30-2008, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Or sign Z, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler and trade Filppula.
That could work, but I dont think they do that, as Babcock likes Filppula and I dont think he is a big Hudler fan. At least for the role that he would be given if Filppula was traded.

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07-30-2008, 09:13 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TRIARII View Post
positives - hands , good shot and play maker .

negatives - real small and not great skating .

ceiling - solid powerplay artist , adds scoring punch and play making to a 3rd line .

worth - somewhere between the 45th and 90th pick .
Detroit won't move anybody........they have a stacked team and it's under the cap

The Bright side for the rest of the freaking league is that Hossa, Zetterberg , Franzen are all UFA's next yr and there is no freaking way they can keep them all.....even 2 of 3 may be tough as the other young players earn tons of cash

So they will still be a good team after this yr but some of the pieces will have to go

Hudler is an example of another guy who will get a raise next yr

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07-30-2008, 09:19 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by dtones520 View Post
That could work, but I dont think they do that, as Babcock likes Filppula and I dont think he is a big Hudler fan. At least for the role that he would be given if Filppula was traded.
If Fil is traded Hudler might get a shot at a top 6 winger position. A role he'd fill better than Filppula as he has far better offensive instincts and skills. With a handful of Selke level guys on our roster Hudler doesn't need to be a defensive rock. Just don't do anything stupid which he doesn't do.

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07-30-2008, 09:46 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schroedingers Cat View Post
I love that Wings fans keep trying to throw Hudler under the bus while perpetually BJing Filppula, who has managed a massive career high of 17 assists while spending most of his time with perennial 20+ goal guys in Franzen, Cleary, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, and Zetterberg. Hilarious.

Babcock makes it pretty apparent he hates Hudler and wants him gone. He promotes him to the 2nd line for a few games, with new linemates, always against strong competition, and immediately jettisons him back down to the 4th line. Meanwhile, Flip wastes a spot in the top-6.

If Hudler actually got a chance on the 2nd line he'd put upt 20-40-60 every season, at least.

If Pavel Datsyuk came into the league with Babcock for a coach he would've been placed on the 4th line and eventually traded or sent back to Russia.
If Babcock had only given more icetime to Hudler, Detroit could've won the Cup!

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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
If Fil is traded Hudler might get a shot at a top 6 winger position. A role he'd fill better than Filppula as he has far better offensive instincts and skills. With a handful of Selke level guys on our roster Hudler doesn't need to be a defensive rock. Just don't do anything stupid which he doesn't do.
Did he play much wing this season?

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07-30-2008, 10:19 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by doctordark View Post
Did he play much wing this season?
Filppula, Hudler, or both?

Hudler has been used exclusive as a LW with the Wings (ES, he's on the right side for PPs).

Filppula has spent large portions of his NHL tenure on the wing. During the '06-'07 season Babcock would often kick Holmstrom down to the 4th line and put Filppula on the top line with Z and Pavel late in games for defensive purposes. And when Z has been out of the lineup, Pavel would slide to center and Filppula would be on one of the wings with Holmstrom on the other. This past season saw him in the middle of the 2nd most of the time, though sometimes Franzen would be center as well. For the upcoming season the only way Fil stays in the center is if he's on the 3rd line.

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07-31-2008, 12:00 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by norrisnick View Post
Filppula, Hudler, or both?

Hudler has been used exclusive as a LW with the Wings (ES, he's on the right side for PPs).

Filppula has spent large portions of his NHL tenure on the wing. During the '06-'07 season Babcock would often kick Holmstrom down to the 4th line and put Filppula on the top line with Z and Pavel late in games for defensive purposes. And when Z has been out of the lineup, Pavel would slide to center and Filppula would be on one of the wings with Holmstrom on the other. This past season saw him in the middle of the 2nd most of the time, though sometimes Franzen would be center as well. For the upcoming season the only way Fil stays in the center is if he's on the 3rd line.
I meant Flip - shoulda clarified. Thanks.

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