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Bouchard's contract vs Plekanec

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Old
07-27-2008, 10:05 AM
  #51
JGRB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
A potential benefit of signing Sundin and trading for Tanguay is that guys like Plekanec and Higgins risk playing less PP time over the year. Less PP time = less production and less production = lower salary. This is especially true for Plekanec, 'cause IMHO Sundin and Koivu are better bet as PP centers.
I'd use Sundin and Plekanec on the same PP wave, actually.. You have 2 capable centers to take a draw, and not to mention you likely want to setup Mats on goalie's right side(so, playing the left side once the PP is setup) to take one timer passes from Kovalev on the opposite side (or vice versa, for that matter.).

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Old
07-27-2008, 10:10 AM
  #52
Teufelsdreck
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Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
Only if your GM is a total maroon.

You earn your contract in the PO's. Regular season numbers mean next to nothing.
Playoff performance is a good indicator but I think a GM would need more than one playoff season to judge. Any player can have a bad stretch or a hot hand (Paul DiPietro comes to mind). The Habs have made the playoffs only 3 times since 2003 (they missed in 2007 and were locked out in 2005). In that period, only 2 current Habs have been well above average, Koivu and Kovalev. Koivu was also good in 2002. Interestingly, 2 outright playoff flops, Ribeiro (in 2004 and 2006) and Ryder (in 2006 and 2008), were moved. Ribeiro went on to have another poor playoffs with Dallas in 2007 but was very good in 2008. For the Bruins, Glen Murray might have redeemed himself after a 17 goal, 13 assist regular season but he sealed his doom by going without a single point in 7 playoff games against the Habs. I hope Ryder doesn't emerge from his coma now that he's with the Bruins.


Last edited by Teufelsdreck: 07-27-2008 at 10:17 AM.
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Old
07-27-2008, 11:18 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
to me .... plekanec>bouchard.
Bouchard:

21 years old - 59 points
22 years old - 57 points
23 years old - 63 points


Plekanec:

21 years old - AHL
22 years old - AHL
23 years old - 29 points


Plekanec is a great player but to flatly say "Plekanec>Bouchard" is just crazy

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Old
07-27-2008, 01:18 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey View Post
Bouchard:

21 years old - 59 points
22 years old - 57 points
23 years old - 63 points


Plekanec:

21 years old - AHL
22 years old - AHL
23 years old - 29 points


Plekanec is a great player but to flatly say "Plekanec>Bouchard" is just crazy

some players peak later...

bouchard's abilities allowed him to have an instant impact in the nhl. His speed and his vision made him a very interesting player.

when I said plekanec> bouchard .... I meant that in my opinion, plekanec is more valuable to us right now than bouchard would be. Plekanec has qualities like anticipation skills, deffensive coverage and is a very, very good all around offensive player. Unfortunately, players like him usually develop a bit later...

when you look at stats, bouchard has the edge in terms of points, I agree.

Did bouchard reached a high level quickly? yes, quicker than plek.

but right now, I wouldn't trade plek for bouchard, mostly because I consider plekanec's offensive progression abselutely insane while being arguably our best player defensively. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see plekanec having more potential than Bouchard for years to come, no matter what the numbers are since they have been drafted.

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Old
07-27-2008, 01:25 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Playoff performance is a good indicator but I think a GM would need more than one playoff season to judge. Any player can have a bad stretch or a hot hand (Paul DiPietro comes to mind). The Habs have made the playoffs only 3 times since 2003 (they missed in 2007 and were locked out in 2005). In that period, only 2 current Habs have been well above average, Koivu and Kovalev. Koivu was also good in 2002. Interestingly, 2 outright playoff flops, Ribeiro (in 2004 and 2006) and Ryder (in 2006 and 2008), were moved. Ribeiro went on to have another poor playoffs with Dallas in 2007 but was very good in 2008. For the Bruins, Glen Murray might have redeemed himself after a 17 goal, 13 assist regular season but he sealed his doom by going without a single point in 7 playoff games against the Habs. I hope Ryder doesn't emerge from his coma now that he's with the Bruins.
Yep, all good examples. I'd add though that the one-year contract guys can also earn their $$$. Brisebois, a signing I hated, earned his salary in the PO's this year, for example.

I also meant to add (I was interupted earlier) that guys like Chris Kontos follow your logic.... he had one great playoff run and capitalized. I look at Philly and think to myself that if get them again, it's an easy win - no Umberger to bounce pucks in off magical goal fairies !


Last edited by Lord Horse: 07-27-2008 at 05:38 PM.
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Old
07-27-2008, 01:30 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
Only if your GM is a total maroon.

You earn your contract in the PO's. Regular season numbers mean next to nothing.
its true, you don't need players to help you make the playoffs in the 1rst place. there is such a huge gap between teams, let's focus on the postseason.

jokinen should play for free.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
Yep, all good examples. I'd add though that the one-year contract guys can also earn their $$$. Brisebois, a signing I hated, earned his salary in the PO's this year, for example.
his goal vs bruins in the 1-0 game was worth more than 700 000$

I hated the signing too, but I have to look back and appreciate the flair Gainey had on this one.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 07-27-2008 at 03:13 PM.
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Old
07-27-2008, 05:45 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kovalev the Great View Post
its true, you don't need players to help you make the playoffs in the 1rst place. there is such a huge gap between teams, let's focus on the postseason.

jokinen should play for free.
Not quite (sarcasm aside), but would I give him more than Brad Richards? Never. What I'm talking about is guys like Claude Lemieux. They may not always put up the season numbers to command big contracts but I'd pay extra for sure to get that playoff money player.

In fact I would try hard not to sign any veteran who wasn't of that type, as unlikely as that may be. My first and most important evaluation of a player will always be their play in the playoffs - can they raise they game past their reg. season performance? See Senators, Ottawa (minus Alfie, who finally showed his real quality).

Gary Roberts, Doug Gilmour, you can pick your favorites.... the guys who want Cups more than anyone else on the ice.

That's why Saku is still IMO the #1 center in Montreal. During the playoffs, Plekanec by his own words played like a little girl. Until he demonstrates the ability to play at a higher level when it matters most, he'll always be #2.

Sundin will be an interesting case if he signs.

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Old
07-28-2008, 10:58 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoar View Post
Not quite (sarcasm aside), but would I give him more than Brad Richards? Never. What I'm talking about is guys like Claude Lemieux. They may not always put up the season numbers to command big contracts but I'd pay extra for sure to get that playoff money player.

In fact I would try hard not to sign any veteran who wasn't of that type, as unlikely as that may be. My first and most important evaluation of a player will always be their play in the playoffs - can they raise they game past their reg. season performance? See Senators, Ottawa (minus Alfie, who finally showed his real quality).

Gary Roberts, Doug Gilmour, you can pick your favorites.... the guys who want Cups more than anyone else on the ice.

That's why Saku is still IMO the #1 center in Montreal. During the playoffs, Plekanec by his own words played like a little girl. Until he demonstrates the ability to play at a higher level when it matters most, he'll always be #2.

Sundin will be an interesting case if he signs.

I totally agree with you.

and its true that Koivu, despite having slowed down during the reg season showed his heart in the playoffs. I really enjoyed the way he played, to be honest it was a suprise to me...

But with the way contracts are dealt at the moment, especially on the free agent market, a guy that racks up between 70 to 80 pts in the reg season might just blow the bank, regardless of his postseason stats. But sure I agree with you that playoff performances are having an impact on the contracts. I just think that with the cap, teams will look to secure a spot in the postseason by bringing in players who can produce on a regular basis during the season...

that being said, plekanec is going to me much better next time around...

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Old
07-28-2008, 12:23 PM
  #59
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Plekanec's playoffs can really be split into two parts.

The first five games vs Boston he was crap.
Games 6-7 and games 1-5 vs the Flyers he was a lot better.

This gives me hope that he's learned what it takes in the playoffs and he'll be a lot better next year.

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Old
07-28-2008, 12:25 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Plekanec's playoffs can really be split into two parts.

The first five games vs Boston he was crap.
Games 6-7 and games 1-5 vs the Flyers he was a lot better.

This gives me hope that he's learned what it takes in the playoffs and he'll be a lot better next year.
I also thought in the 05/06 playoffs he was one of our better forwards too... if I remember correctly the Perezhogin-Plekanec-Zednik line was probably our best line after Koivu was out.

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Old
07-28-2008, 12:32 PM
  #61
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Roy > Plekanec

seriously. the guy is younger and scored over 80 points. and he didn't play with Kovalev either.

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