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Why didn't anybody stand up for Aaron Ward?

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Old
07-29-2008, 06:00 PM
  #76
Jeds2StepOpus
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post
are you even a ranger fan? or just a ward fan. holy ****.

And there you go folks. Exactly the Rangers culture/mentality I was talking about.


Ohhhhhhhhh......god forbid anyone point out the truth about Jaromir Jagr. Let's just keep pretending he was some amazing Ranger, who led this team with character and courage; for three years

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07-29-2008, 06:00 PM
  #77
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oh, okay. so your a Bruins fan not a Rangers fan, i see...



Pathetic.

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07-29-2008, 06:04 PM
  #78
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Pathetic.



arrogant.


Have you ever played Hockey in your life, or are you just one of those guys who thinks they know the sport top to bottom?

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07-29-2008, 06:14 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by GongShowHockeyNYR View Post



arrogant.


Have you ever played Hockey in your life, or are you just one of those guys who thinks they know the sport top to bottom?
Oh please. Arrogant?

You're trying to pull that juvenile tactic of questioning my team loyalty or fanhood, because you can't possibly understand questioning and criticizing one's team. You expect all Rangers fans to be cheerleaders ....to think and behave in a manner that is exceptable to you. Talk about arrogant

Your tactics are juvenile, narrow-minded and short-sighted.

Oh my, he attacked my hockey playing experience or what he perceives as my having none. Oh my. What shall I do now? List all of my credentials to appease this poor, wounded child? Would that make my comments more truth or reality?

The truth is what it is. Whether you like it or not.

Jagr did some good things as a Ranger. But the other side of that coin, is the things I said. Any objective hockey person knows it's true.

Deal with it. or just keep crying. Whatever makes you feel better.

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07-29-2008, 06:28 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post


Pathetic.
Aaron, it's good to see you are doing better in Boston.
Because you sucked as a Ranger.
Too bad you talk too much and you said things to media instead to your team mates in locker room.
I'm glad Sather traded you, and deal worked out for both teams
Peace

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07-29-2008, 06:40 PM
  #81
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And while we're on the subject of "knowing the game" and single-handingly doing things; let's clear up one MAJOR misconception, here.


Jaromir Jagr's offensive success for that first three or four months of the 2005-06, was a contributing factor in the Rangers gaining "respectability".

But he was simply one part of that equation.

Anyone who understands the game/sport, knows the other two major factors in gaining "respectability" was the fact the Rangers for the first time in a very long time; had very effective Third and Fourth Lines. It was their defensive abilities, their physical game (hitting everything in sight) and their energy/hustle, that also contributed to the Rangers "gaining respectability".

As well, the team's overall commitment to better team defense and better goaltending than they'd had in a long time.

All of of that factored in greatly.

Without Jagr, Nylander, Ruchinsky, Straka...etc contributing to the offensive game and putting up points; the team barely scores any goals and the team gets no respect.

Without Betts, Ortmeyer, D. Moore, Rucchin, Hollweg etc.... playing very good team defense, killing penalties, playing a physical game that made life miserable for opponents and good goaltending; the team gives up as many goals as they score. Which gets you no respect at all.

It's a symbiotic existence and success (respectability) comes only from a whole team's efforts. Not just one player.

Jagr was a marketable, high-profile name. So people latch on to that as if it embodies something. It really doesn't, when you're talking about a team game and the success of a team.

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07-29-2008, 06:50 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Kostik View Post
Aaron, it's good to see you are doing better in Boston.
Because you sucked as a Ranger.
Too bad you talk too much and you said things to media instead to your team mates in locker room.
I'm glad Sather traded you, and deal worked out for both teams
Peace
Hi Jaromir.

Glad to see you actually have computers and internet access way out there.

I know you're still brooding and crying over what Aaron Ward said to you and probably still cry yourself to sleep, all curled up in the fetal position. Just like you did that faithful night.

But you really need to get over it. You're a grown man (almost) and hockey is a tough sport. Not for the faint of heart or weak of genitals.

I'm glad you're gone because this team already has enough vaginas in the locker room (Renney and Rosival). Too many vaginas always ruins the environment.

Too bad you have a big mouth and never knew when to keep it zipped up. I'm sure Aaron Ward would have appreciated you keeping your trap shut. But that's what happens when you flap your tounge to the media. Eventually, your team mates get fed up with you and fire back.

Don't cry.

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07-29-2008, 06:58 PM
  #83
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Wow, this degenerated into a pissing match rather quickly.

__________________

It's just pain.
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07-29-2008, 07:19 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Hi Jaromir.

Glad to see you actually have computers and internet access way out there.

I know you're still brooding and crying over what Aaron Ward said to you and probably still cry yourself to sleep, all curled up in the fetal position. Just like you did that faithful night.

But you really need to get over it. You're a grown man (almost) and hockey is a tough sport. Not for the faint of heart or weak of genitals.

I'm glad you're gone because this team already has enough vaginas in the locker room (Renney and Rosival). Too many vaginas always ruins the environment.

Too bad you have a big mouth and never knew when to keep it zipped up. I'm sure Aaron Ward would have appreciated you keeping your trap shut. But that's what happens when you flap your tounge to the media. Eventually, your team mates get fed up with you and fire back.

Don't cry.
I really don't get the point your trying to make. Are you saying Ward was a more important part of the team than Jagr? If you are your nutz. And if your not how can you sit there and make fun of the Rangers when they traded away Ward, and got a nice return back for him to boot? Jagr may not have been the greatest locker room captain, but he led on the ice, like in this past playoffs which you haven't mentioned once in your rants. Ward is uncapable of carrying a team like that. Brian Leetch was just as quiet in the locker room but let on the ice. Different guys lead different ways, you and Ward should learn that.

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07-29-2008, 07:25 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Hi Jaromir.

Glad to see you actually have computers and internet access way out there.

I know you're still brooding and crying over what Aaron Ward said to you and probably still cry yourself to sleep, all curled up in the fetal position. Just like you did that faithful night.

But you really need to get over it. You're a grown man (almost) and hockey is a tough sport. Not for the faint of heart or weak of genitals.

I'm glad you're gone because this team already has enough vaginas in the locker room (Renney and Rosival). Too many vaginas always ruins the environment.

Too bad you have a big mouth and never knew when to keep it zipped up. I'm sure Aaron Ward would have appreciated you keeping your trap shut. But that's what happens when you flap your tounge to the media. Eventually, your team mates get fed up with you and fire back.

Don't cry.

Didn't Jagr make it point to NEVER bring up the Ward incident in the media? Didn't Jagr get pissed that it was leaked in the first place?

If you want to bash Jagr be my guest but at least be accurate with your thoughts...

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07-29-2008, 07:28 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
And while we're on the subject of "knowing the game" and single-handingly doing things; let's clear up one MAJOR misconception, here.


Jaromir Jagr's offensive success for that first three or four months of the 2005-06, was a contributing factor in the Rangers gaining "respectability".

But he was simply one part of that equation.

Anyone who understands the game/sport, knows the other two major factors in gaining "respectability" was the fact the Rangers for the first time in a very long time; had very effective Third and Fourth Lines. It was their defensive abilities, their physical game (hitting everything in sight) and their energy/hustle, that also contributed to the Rangers "gaining respectability".

As well, the team's overall commitment to better team defense and better goaltending than they'd had in a long time.

All of of that factored in greatly.

Without Jagr, Nylander, Ruchinsky, Straka...etc contributing to the offensive game and putting up points; the team barely scores any goals and the team gets no respect.

Without Betts, Ortmeyer, D. Moore, Rucchin, Hollweg etc.... playing very good team defense, killing penalties, playing a physical game that made life miserable for opponents and good goaltending; the team gives up as many goals as they score. Which gets you no respect at all.

It's a symbiotic existence and success (respectability) comes only from a whole team's efforts. Not just one player.

Jagr was a marketable, high-profile name. So people latch on to that as if it embodies something. It really doesn't, when you're talking about a team game and the success of a team.

Without Jagr scoring nobody would notice the work of Betts, Ortmeyer (hey aren't you the guy the Rangers pk was be worse without Ortmeyer?) Rucchin, Hollweg, etc..

In the pie chart of success for that season Jagr is probably 50% of the reason the team played so well..

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07-29-2008, 07:35 PM
  #87
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Yeah, single-handingly

Funny how once his boys ( Nylander, Straka and Ruchinsky) were either traded, let walk away or suffered injuries; Jagr became not so single-handingly effective.

Yeah, I remember him bringing a ton of respect to this team when in the 2005-2006 First Round Playoffs, he foolishly tried to rabbit-punch Scott Gomez in the back of the head, dislocated his shoulder and became useless. Not to say he was effective up to that point, anyway. He was not. He was a joke down from February to April, that season.

I remember when he was invisable for a majority of the first half of the 2006-2007 season. So invisable that it took Aaron Ward shoving his foot up his ass, which of course insulted the poor baby and led to Ward getting traded.

Another guy who looks at total offensive points (stats) and thinks they defi8ne how a player played/performed.

I'm curious...how many players attempt to play with a dislocated shoulder?

I don't think you've said one accurate statement in your posts...

Aaron Ward played 60 so/so games as a Ranger...Jagr didn't miss ONE regular season game due to injury...not one...

For all this talk about his second half in 05/06 did you bother to look up his numbers?

For all the talk about laziness and him being aloaf did you bother to watch the games? I mean isn't Jagr the wrong guy to bash for his contribution to the success of the team over the past 3 seasons?



I'm not sure what you are trying to prove with your bashing...nothing is factual...not one thing.....your entitled to your opinion but i don't think many would agree with it..

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07-30-2008, 01:16 AM
  #88
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Chara played a lot with Wideman, not just Ward.

Ward led the team in blocked shots and was third in hits even though he missed time due to injury. He would be one of the first guys in a scrum to defend a teammate and was not shy about being vocal. The guy is a warrior in every sence of the word.

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07-30-2008, 12:34 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Oh please. Arrogant?

You're trying to pull that juvenile tactic of questioning my team loyalty or fanhood, because you can't possibly understand questioning and criticizing one's team. You expect all Rangers fans to be cheerleaders ....to think and behave in a manner that is exceptable to you. Talk about arrogant

Your tactics are juvenile, narrow-minded and short-sighted.

Oh my, he attacked my hockey playing experience or what he perceives as my having none. Oh my. What shall I do now? List all of my credentials to appease this poor, wounded child? Would that make my comments more truth or reality?

The truth is what it is. Whether you like it or not.

Jagr did some good things as a Ranger. But the other side of that coin, is the things I said. Any objective hockey person knows it's true.

Deal with it. or just keep crying. Whatever makes you feel better.
haha, im not the one crying here buddy. i was just wondering why the **** someone is bashing Jagr, and praise Ward like he was a #1 defensman when in reality he was a #4/5 dman on the team. and you still didnt answer my question, so i guess you are one of those people who just critic the game and has never played it.

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07-30-2008, 12:39 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Hi Jaromir.

Glad to see you actually have computers and internet access way out there.

I know you're still brooding and crying over what Aaron Ward said to you and probably still cry yourself to sleep, all curled up in the fetal position. Just like you did that faithful night.

But you really need to get over it. You're a grown man (almost) and hockey is a tough sport. Not for the faint of heart or weak of genitals.

I'm glad you're gone because this team already has enough vaginas in the locker room (Renney and Rosival). Too many vaginas always ruins the environment.

Too bad you have a big mouth and never knew when to keep it zipped up. I'm sure Aaron Ward would have appreciated you keeping your trap shut. But that's what happens when you flap your tounge to the media. Eventually, your team mates get fed up with you and fire back.

Don't cry.
hahaha, i like how you act as if you are in the lockerroom and you know exactly what happend with Ward, and Jagr. you dont know ****, get over your self buddy. and how did Jagr have a bigmouth when he wasnt the one who went to the media to discuss his problems instead of going to the Coaching staff. and you are right i was wrong for calling you arrogant, after reading more of your "Ward is God, Jagr is a Girl" posts i realized i should've written Ignorance instead.

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07-30-2008, 12:41 PM
  #91
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SOS, you clearly don't get it.

It's also clear that everything I said in my posts, went right over your head. Either that, or you didn't actually read what I said. Because the comments your making don't reflect the words of a person who comprehends what I wrote/said; or the game of hocley, for that matter.

Jagr's offensive stats for 2005/06? LOL! Exactly what I was talking about with Rangers culture. Oblivious.


SOS Said: " Without Jagr scoring nobody would notice the work of Betts, Ortmeyer, Rucchin, Hollweg, etc.. "

So basically you' re repeating what I already said, but rather than being fair and rational by pointing out that both were significant factors in the Rangers success, as I did; you went and proved my point, completely. By pretending the Third and Fourth lines were insignificant in the Rangers rise to "respectability" and that it was all Jagr

Oh brother.

Did Jagr win this team a Cup? Well, since he was sooooooo0 great and "single-handingly " carried the team to respectibility. Why no Cup?

Oh I know what you'll say. Well, no one player can win the Cup by himself. Right?

But he "single-handingly" brought this team "respectibility"

How conveinent.

Oh let's give Jagr all the credit for "respectibility" but when it comes to a Stanley Cup, let's default to the old cliche that no one player can win a Cup by himself.

What a joke. What hypocrisy and double-standards.

You guys just keep chugging along praising mediocrity and worshiping players who provide big "offensive numbers" but fail miserably in other important areas of the game.

As for me, I want Stanley Cups. Not runner-up excuses and spin-jobs. And I know what type of players a team needs to win the Cup. And Jagr, as a center-piece......Captain, was not the right player for a team who wants to challenge and win a Stanley Cup.

I said it when they got Jagr....."This team will never win a Stanley Cup with Jagr as a center-piece and then as a Captain. Never. "


And now, this team will not win a Cup with Rozsival, Mara and Kalinin on the blueline. That's not a Cup winning blueline. They'll be lucky to get out of the First Round, with those three.

P.S. A lot of players play with dislocated shoulders. Especially in the Playoffs.

Ward played with a broken foot for 4-5 months. But of course he gets no sympathy or excuses from the oblivious Rangers Fan culture. What a joke. Drury and Avery played with severe injuries last season and in the Playoffs, but neither get any slack, either. Yeah, this quite an informed and knowledgable culture we have here in Rangers Land

P.S. II The Jagr and Ward thing developed for several reasons. Mostly because of Jagr's on-ice irresponsibility and constant turnovers/giveaways. But Jagr had been making little snide, thinly-veiled quips to the media regarding Ward. That's what lead to the that big confrontation. Jagr couldn't keep his big mouth shut.

Ward knows how to win a Cup in this century. Ward is a true warrior.

Jagr does not. Jagr only knows how to win a Cup win a Cup when his team is already stacked with the likes of Mario, Stevens, Brown ....etc...etc.

Guy never carried a team anywhere.

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07-30-2008, 12:45 PM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
SOS, you clearly don't get it.

It's also clear that everything I said in my posts, went right over your head. Either that, or you didn't actually read what I said. Because the comments your making don't reflect the words of a person who comprehends what I wrote/said; or the game of hocley, for that matter.

Jagr's offensive stats for 2005/06? LOL! Exactly what I was talking about with Rangers culture. Oblivious.


SOS Said: " Without Jagr scoring nobody would notice the work of Betts, Ortmeyer, Rucchin, Hollweg, etc.. "

So basically you' re repeating what I already said, but rather than being fair and rational by pointing out that both were significant factors in the Rangers success, as I did; you went and proved my point, completely. By pretending the Third and Fourth lines were insignificant in the Rangers rise to "respectability" and that it was all Jagr

Oh brother.

Did Jagr win this team a Cup? Well, since he was sooooooo0 great and "single-handingly " carried the team to respectibility. Why no Cup?

Oh I know what you'll say. Well, no one player can win the Cup by himself. Right?

But he "single-handingly" brought this team "respectibility"

How conveinent.

Oh let's give Jagr all the credit for "respectibility" but when it comes to a Stanley Cup, let's default to the old cliche that no one player can win a Cup by himself.

What a joke. What hypocrisy and double-standards.

You guys just keep chugging along praising mediocrity and worshiping players who provide big "offensive numbers" but fail miserably in other important areas of the game.

As for me, I want Stanley Cups. Not runner-up excuses and spin-jobs. And I know what type of players a team needs to win the Cup. And Jagr, as a center-piece......Captain, was not the right player for a team who wants to challenge and win a Stanley Cup.

I said it when they got Jagr....."This team will never win a Stanley Cup with Jagr as a center-piece and then as a Captain. Never. "


And now, this team will not win a Cup with Rozsival, Mara and Kalinin on the blueline. That's not a Cup winning blueline. They'll be lucky to get out of the First Round, with those three.

P.S. A lot of players play with dislocated shoulders. Especially in the Playoffs.

Ward played with a broken foot for 4-5 months. But of course he gets no sympathy or excuses from the oblivious Rangers Fan culture. What a joke. Drury and Avery played with severe injuries last season and in the Playoffs, but neither get any slack, either. Yeah, this quite an informed and knowledgable culture we have here in Rangers Land

P.S. II The Jagr and Ward thing developed for several reasons. Mostly because of Jagr's on-ice irresponsibility and constant turnovers/giveaways. But Jagr had been making little snide, thinly-veiled quips to the media regarding Ward. That's what lead to the that big confrontation. Jagr couldn't keep his big mouth shut. Ward knows how to win a Cup in this century. Ward is a true warrior.

Jagr does not. Jagr only knows how to win a Cup win a Cup when his team is already stacked with the likes of Mario, Stevens, Brown ....etc...etc.

Guy never carried a team anywhere.
I'm not wasting my time responding to this whole post...to be honest I don't really understand where your coming from and I don't think you are able to explain it in a way i can understand...(because i'm dumb)

I would however like to provide the quotes you are talking about....Please back up your post(s) with some facts....

thanks,
SoS

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07-30-2008, 01:00 PM
  #93
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I really don't know how to respond to any of the filth that Jeds2StepOpus says...

no respect for a guy who turned this franchise around.

By the way, Mara is better than Ward also. Watch a game.

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07-30-2008, 01:00 PM
  #94
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and how did Jagr have a bigmouth when he wasnt the one who went to the media to discuss his problems instead of going to the Coaching staff.
You're so wrong on this one, that it's funny. Your version is what Renney and Jagr wanted you to hear. But that's a load of crap. Jagr was the problem in that whole scenario. Unwilling to talk to Ward and discuss the issues. And when Ward went to the caoch, Renney was dismissive and only concerned with sheltering the delicate artist. When Jagr continued to make little quips in the media, things continued to ecalate then reached the boiling point.

You're free to believe what you want. I know, what I know.

Hell, even Alexi Kovalev said in an interview, saw it with my own eyes and head it with my own ears; that Jagr would never talk to him when he was in Pittsburgh. Alexi never understood what Jagr's problem was, but he repeatidly refused to even as so much as say hello and take part in idle chit-chat, with Alexi.

This whole Jaromir Jagr is so loved by all his team mates PR is complete nonsense. The guy has always been only friendly with "his " boys " and often treated all the other players like garbage. It's a relatively well-known fact.

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07-30-2008, 01:04 PM
  #95
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I really don't know how to respond to any of the filth that Jeds2StepOpus says...

no respect for a guy who turned this franchise around.

By the way, Mara is better than Ward also. Watch a game.
Reality is such a hard pill to swallow. I completely understand why so many of you fight against it.

Especially in our Rangers Culture, where hype, sensationalistic PR and advertising so easily seduces Rangers fans who really don't know much about the game/sport.

It's okay. One day you'll learn, if youmake the effort.

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07-30-2008, 01:56 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Jeds2StepOpus View Post
Reality is such a hard pill to swallow. I completely understand why so many of you fight against it.

Especially in our Rangers Culture, where hype, sensationalistic PR and advertising so easily seduces Rangers fans who really don't know much about the game/sport.

It's okay. One day you'll learn, if youmake the effort.
so you are saying you think jagr hurt this team more than helped it?......

you think players like ortmeyer, hollweg and betts had more to do with turning this franchise around than jagr?.......


i can understand if you say it wasnt totally jagr and that it was a change in the culture around the team and whatnot, but if he didnt rebound to carry the offense then the team, most likely, would have finished around the same spots they had before the lockout.....outside the playoffs

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07-30-2008, 01:58 PM
  #97
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You're so wrong on this one, that it's funny. Your version is what Renney and Jagr wanted you to hear. But that's a load of crap. Jagr was the problem in that whole scenario. Unwilling to talk to Ward and discuss the issues. And when Ward went to the caoch, Renney was dismissive and only concerned with sheltering the delicate artist. When Jagr continued to make little quips in the media, things continued to ecalate then reached the boiling point.

You're free to believe what you want. I know, what I know.

Hell, even Alexi Kovalev said in an interview, saw it with my own eyes and head it with my own ears; that Jagr would never talk to him when he was in Pittsburgh. Alexi never understood what Jagr's problem was, but he repeatidly refused to even as so much as say hello and take part in idle chit-chat, with Alexi.

This whole Jaromir Jagr is so loved by all his team mates PR is complete nonsense. The guy has always been only friendly with "his " boys " and often treated all the other players like garbage. It's a relatively well-known fact.
can you please provide links as proof to what you are saying about Jagr and now kovalev?

I'm not takinng your word for it....you have not posted any factual information and you are acting like it's common knowledge...

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07-30-2008, 05:33 PM
  #98
Jeds2StepOpus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyviper87 View Post
so you are saying you think jagr hurt this team more than helped it?......

you think players like ortmeyer, hollweg and betts had more to do with turning this franchise around than jagr?.......


i can understand if you say it wasnt totally jagr and that it was a change in the culture around the team and whatnot, but if he didnt rebound to carry the offense then the team, most likely, would have finished around the same spots they had before the lockout.....outside the playoffs

Reading Comprehension skills ............Zilch. Nada.

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07-30-2008, 05:42 PM
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John Torturella
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Quite the thread here. Very interesting stuff. Im tyring to remember how many goals Ward scored on his own net. Had to be at least 6 in the short time he was here. Perhaps no one stood up for him because no one respected him? Maybe he was not a good person in the lockerroom. Maybe no one went after Brashear because he was going off the ice with an official and they did not want to get kicked out of the game for no reason. Plus the fact that we had a powerplay. Also I think Orr destroyed Ovechkin with a dirty high hit later on in that game if Im thinking of the same game. So maybe someone did stand up for him, but not at the exact time the suckerpunch happened.

Here is the youtube:



I think this hit more than makes up for the suckerpunch on Ward. Just my opinion.

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07-30-2008, 06:28 PM
  #100
Jeds2StepOpus
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Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
can you please provide links as proof to what you are saying about Jagr and now kovalev?

I'm not takinng your word for it....you have not posted any factual information and you are acting like it's common knowledge...
You need to get a grip and realize something, here.........

1) I don't care what you believe or disbelieve. It's neither my concern or business. I'm not here to make you or anyone (for that matter) ....a believer of anything.

2) I saw a thread so infested with misconceptions, one-sided biased fantasy, misinformation, downright lies and utter nonsense. The first few pages are infested with them.

3) So I came in to express some opinions, thoughts and make a few statements which I know to be true.

Take what you will from it and perceive it in which ever manner you wish.

But I will suggest to anyone here who considers themselves a knowledgeable hockey person/fan, that, they do some research on Aaron Ward, get an education on his history as a player and teammate with his two previous teams (Detroit and Carolina), prior to his signing with the Rangers. Then, do some research on how Aaron Ward is doing in Boston, both as a player and team mate.

Otherewise, you're just embarrassing yourselves. You obviously don't realize it, but you are.

As for that video by the OP and the guy who just re-posted it....

If you were watching the game and paying attention, it was clear Ward was chattering at Brashear (with verbal abuse) as he was heading his way and off to the penalty box; for the purpose of trying to draw an extra penalty to Brashear (the Caps).

Ward saw him coming, knew he was coming and at no time did he ever raise his hands/arms in self-defense. There's a reason for that. Ward was suckering him into hitting him and taking the extra penalty. Ward took one (actually two, lol ) for the team.

If you watched the game you would know when Ward arrived at the bench his team mates started patting him on the back, patting his helmet, grinning and congratulating him.

And after Ward was finished with his Oscar award performance/portrayal of " the poor, innocent victim who was mugged and assaulted by Brashear "; he sat there with a grin. As were several of Ward's team mates.


The Orr hit on Ovechkin was a retaliation for Brashear hammering Jagr with an elbow, earlier in the game. The same elbow that inspired Shanney to fight Brashear. But Orr decided to do it the old fashioned way. The right way. You hammer our best players, we hammer your best player.

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