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A Peek at Sather's plan?

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Old
08-01-2008, 09:59 AM
  #51
Bleed Ranger Blue
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Sorry, but you dont build around young players. You build around veterans with talented young players that might actually become the core of the team one day.

I dont know how you could justify calling Dubinsky, Staal, Anisimov, and Zherdev the CORE of this team with their 5 years of NHL experience COMBINED! Jesus, Anisimov hasnt even played an NHL game.

The core starts with Gomez and Drury. HOPEFULLY, our young players develop into the core of this franchise....hopefully.

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08-01-2008, 10:14 AM
  #52
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i have no problem in 3-5 years having that core....but for right now it wouldnt be a good idea to just hand the team over to them....too much pressure and the players might get a sour taste in their mouth(florida) from losing......the great thing about drury and gomez is that they are great team players and great leaders...play who can teach the younger players how to be good players and good team players and do anything to win........i think sather is looking forward to when that is the core but if you think then sather is letting the next 3-5 years go by without fighting for a championship then you dont know the NYR........look at the players who sather has brought in.....drury, natural leader and winner, bussinesslike......gomez, natural playmaker and great teammate, also a winner.........redden, natural leader, quiet player who goes about his business, bussinesslike........sather has a plan and would sundin be nice to have on the team?.....sure, are they the most talented players?.....no, but they are some of the best leaders in the game(who arent too old)

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08-01-2008, 10:25 AM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
Sangs could be but I wouldn't bet on Sauer, he is coming off of major surgery, and frankly he can't stay healthy at all. I really dont think he is going to make it.
Can't stay healthy?

Sauer played 71 games last season for Hartford, so please, explain to me how he "can't stay healthy". The ACL was the only injury he had all season.

The guy had injury problems back around the time he was drafted, but after the surgery on his hips, he played significantly more, and he's gotten better since then.

Again, the torn ACL was the only significant injury last year, so if anything he's gotten better, not worse.


Last edited by Turambar: 08-01-2008 at 10:42 AM.
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08-01-2008, 10:40 AM
  #54
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Sundins agent JP Barry:

''There are other teams that have said, 'We're that interested in a short-term, one to two year deal. We just want to let you know that if you give us some time, we'll make room'." Barry told the Team 1040"

mmm

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08-01-2008, 10:42 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Can't stay healthy?

Sauer played 71 games last season for Hartford, so please, explain to me how he "can't stay healthy".

Where are you getting this crap?
um look up his CHL career... he had some injury problems there also Einstein.

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08-01-2008, 10:45 AM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
um look up his CHL career... he had some injury problems there also Einstein.
As my post says (post-edit), that was like 3 years ago.

He's been much better since.

And sorry if I came off rudely, wasn't my intention.

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08-01-2008, 10:49 AM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Sorry, but you dont build around young players. You build around veterans with talented young players that might actually become the core of the team one day.

I dont know how you could justify calling Dubinsky, Staal, Anisimov, and Zherdev the CORE of this team with their 5 years of NHL experience COMBINED! Jesus, Anisimov hasnt even played an NHL game.

The core starts with Gomez and Drury. HOPEFULLY, our young players develop into the core of this franchise....hopefully.
No the Rangers don't build around young players... but successful franchises do.

Look at Pittsburgh both in the 90's and now, the Devils (built around Stevens, Niedermeyer, Brodeur, when they were young), Detroit built their team in the 90's around young Russians, the capitals now, the Kings now (who will be dominant in about 2 years), the blackhawks now, the coyotes now, Philly now, Montreal now do i need to give more examples.

we don't have a winning team right now... this team is in no way shape or form a SC contender, and maybe not a playoff team. We did a half ass job at rebuilding and now we have a team of 4-5 guys in win now mode and the rest of the team in win in 5 years mode. who do you think we should build around? This team isn't winning a cup in the next 3 years. Build around the people who will be hear 10 yrs+ not the ones who are gone in the next 3-4 years, or will be on the downsides of their careers in 3-4 years.

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08-01-2008, 10:53 AM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
No the Rangers don't build around young players... but successful franchises do.

Look at Pittsburgh both in the 90's and now, the Devils (built around Stevens, Niedermeyer, Brodeur, when they were young), Detroit built their team in the 90's around young Russians, the capitals now, the Kings now (who will be dominant in about 2 years), the blackhawks now, the coyotes now, Philly now, Montreal now do i need to give more examples.

we don't have a winning team right now... this team is in no way shape or form a SC contender, and maybe not a playoff team. We did a half ass job at rebuilding and now we have a team of 4-5 guys in win now mode and the rest of the team in win in 5 years mode. who do you think we should build around? This team isn't winning a cup in the next 3 years. Build around the people who will be hear 10 yrs+ not the ones who are gone in the next 3-4 years, or will be on the downsides of their careers in 3-4 years.
The only guy this team should be built around is Henrik Lundqvist.

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08-01-2008, 11:01 AM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rags225 View Post
No the Rangers don't build around young players... but successful franchises do.

Look at Pittsburgh both in the 90's and now, the Devils (built around Stevens, Niedermeyer, Brodeur, when they were young), Detroit built their team in the 90's around young Russians, the capitals now, the Kings now (who will be dominant in about 2 years), the blackhawks now, the coyotes now, Philly now, Montreal now do i need to give more examples.

we don't have a winning team right now... this team is in no way shape or form a SC contender, and maybe not a playoff team. We did a half ass job at rebuilding and now we have a team of 4-5 guys in win now mode and the rest of the team in win in 5 years mode. who do you think we should build around? This team isn't winning a cup in the next 3 years. Build around the people who will be hear 10 yrs+ not the ones who are gone in the next 3-4 years, or will be on the downsides of their careers in 3-4 years.
I'd be comfortable building around youth if we were drafting in the top 5 for the better part of a decade like the Pens.

You have no idea if we have a winning team now. You're basing your entire argument on statistics. This is a new team, and roster isn't even finalized. These players haven't skated a single minute together and you've already deemed them a failure; It's completely unsubstantiated.

You can compare players all you want and keep saying the players we acquired aren't as good as the ones we lost, but the fact is that no one has any idea how good they will be. The right linemates can make anyone look like a superstar, it's all about chemistry. We could see Gomez feeding Naslund all season while Naslund puts up 40 goals again. We could see Zherdev break 40 goals. We could see Redden become a Norris candidate. We could completely flop and finish dead last.

You can't predict the future, and determining this team will fail just because you don't like the way they look on paper is ridiculous.

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08-01-2008, 11:44 AM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Chariot View Post
Sundins agent JP Barry:

''There are other teams that have said, 'We're that interested in a short-term, one to two year deal. We just want to let you know that if you give us some time, we'll make room'." Barry told the Team 1040"

mmm
I saw that quote too and thought the same thing... sounds like it could be us, but one never knows....
My opinion, which doesn't matter at all, is NOOOO!!!! Center is the position we're set at. Gomez-Drury-Dubinsky-Betts... I'm ok with that down the middle. 2 good vets, a promising youngster and a shut down for the 4th.

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08-01-2008, 11:51 AM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mti79 View Post
I saw that quote too and thought the same thing... sounds like it could be us, but one never knows....
My opinion, which doesn't matter at all, is NOOOO!!!! Center is the position we're set at. Gomez-Drury-Dubinsky-Betts... I'm ok with that down the middle. 2 good vets, a promising youngster and a shut down for the 4th.
You could shift Drury to the wing. Top 6 becomes:

1. Gomez
2. Sundin
3. Drury
4. Zherdev
5. Naslund
6. Dawes/Prucha

It allows Dubinsky to be on the 3rd line (where I think he belongs this year), with players that have offensive upside like Prucha and Frische. It also makes our top 2 lines much more legitimate.

Im all for obtaining Sundin if the price is right.

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08-01-2008, 12:02 PM
  #62
DontStepanMe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
I'd be comfortable building around youth if we were drafting in the top 5 for the better part of a decade like the Pens.

You have no idea if we have a winning team now. You're basing your entire argument on statistics. This is a new team, and roster isn't even finalized. These players haven't skated a single minute together and you've already deemed them a failure; It's completely unsubstantiated.

You can compare players all you want and keep saying the players we acquired aren't as good as the ones we lost, but the fact is that no one has any idea how good they will be. The right linemates can make anyone look like a superstar, it's all about chemistry. We could see Gomez feeding Naslund all season while Naslund puts up 40 goals again. We could see Zherdev break 40 goals. We could see Redden become a Norris candidate. We could completely flop and finish dead last.

You can't predict the future, and determining this team will fail just because you don't like the way they look on paper is ridiculous.
well you are right, that we can't predict the future, and i'm just doing a guesstimate. But realistically alot has to go right for us to be better than last year. We don't have a true top 6, no legit star player, so we need amazing chemistry. We hope people can perform to expectations at least if not better. it just seems that alot more has to go right for this team to be good than for it to go wrong and this team sucks.

as for picking top 5 you don't have to do that to build a great team. Look at Philly (yes they picked top 5 but that player has no bearing on last year and probably this year), before that was 2004 (joni pitkanen) and before that was 1990.

Montreal - one top 5 pick on their team the last 6 years (price) only used last 6 years because they have a very young team. although you have to go to 1984 to find their last top 5 pick.

Detroit - last time in the top 5 was 1990

Colorado - hasn't been in top 5 since 1992 when they were Quebec

Devils - hasn't been in top 5 since 1991

Dallas - 1 top 5 since 1993... and that was richard jackman before that was 1988.

yet all these teams are good basically year in and year out. How do they do it w/o being bad for all these years you ask?

1. Draft smart - we have been doing that lately
2. Don't be silly w/ FA signings - we definately don't do that
3. Get lucky in Draft - Cherry, Staal, Sangs, Lundy very lucky to fall to us as Cherry and Staal should've been top 10 cherry even in top 5.
4. Trade Smart - have been doing that lately
5. Find your key youth and build team around them. the players they drafted... again we have not been doing that.


Last edited by DontStepanMe: 08-01-2008 at 12:20 PM.
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Old
08-01-2008, 12:15 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
The only guy this team should be built around is Henrik Lundqvist.
I love Lundqvist but what does building around him actually mean?

You can build around players like Crosby and Ovechkin by getting players that complement their games but you can't do that with a goaltender.

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08-01-2008, 12:22 PM
  #64
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Quote:
I love Lundqvist but what does building around him actually mean?

You can build around players like Crosby and Ovechkin by getting players that complement their games but you can't do that with a goaltender.
I disagree. Building around Lundqvist is exactly what we are doing. Solid defensemen who more importantly are capable of moving the puck out of the zone. Lundqvist's biggest weakness is unquestionably his puck handling skills, I liken his puck movement to a 4 year old playing hot potato. The defensemen we're acquiring: Redden, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, etc. are at the foremost puck movers. Hopefully their proficiency in puck movement will diminish Lundqvist's need to transition the puck out of the defensive zone.

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08-01-2008, 12:34 PM
  #65
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IMO the "core" of a team are the players who form the basis for the team's success (long term and short), not the highest paid, biggest name guys. sammy pahlsson in anaheim is, i would say, part of their "core" because he is an extremely important part of their team. for us right now, gomez obviously has to be a core player because he is gonna be the center for our top line, as well as drury because he is (usually) a top 6 guy, and a big part of the PP and PK. dubinsky is a core player because he's our biggest center on the top 3 lines, and will be counted on to be one of our rough and tumble guys who makes life tough for other teams' defensemen. staal is a core player because he is one of the best defensemen on the team, and will (hopefully) grow into the role of a legit #1 Dman in the next few years. redden, we hope, will become part of the core, filling the role of #1 dman while staal matures, as well as teaching him, running the point on the PP, and providing solid two way play. lundqvist is arguably the most core player because he is the most difficult to replace, and the most vital player (as an individual) to our success.

so the way i see it, a core consists of both youth and experienced players, who should mesh together to provide for what the team needs most...

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Old
08-01-2008, 03:10 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by azrok22 View Post
I disagree. Building around Lundqvist is exactly what we are doing. Solid defensemen who more importantly are capable of moving the puck out of the zone. Lundqvist's biggest weakness is unquestionably his puck handling skills, I liken his puck movement to a 4 year old playing hot potato. The defensemen we're acquiring: Redden, Sanguinetti, Del Zotto, etc. are at the foremost puck movers. Hopefully their proficiency in puck movement will diminish Lundqvist's need to transition the puck out of the defensive zone.
In today's NHL, your defensemen have to be able do these things no matter who the goaltender and no matter what his relative merits are so I still maintain that there is no way to build around a goaltender.

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