HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The new Primeau contract...

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-14-2004, 08:37 PM
  #1
RichardZednik#20
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Montreal
Posts: 862
vCash: 500
The new Primeau contract...

I tought we could start a little discussion on this.

With The new signature of Keith Primeau in Philly(17mil$ for 4 years=4.25mil$/year) does this make Kovalev tougher to sign at 4.5 mil$ like everybody wants.

-Primeau add an awful season with great playoff, he is now a 3rd liner and not a treat offensivly anymore. He was winning 5 mil$ last year.

-Kovalev add an awful season with great playoff performance, he is a top winger on most team and a big treat for all teams defence. He was winning 6.6 mil$.

So I think it's fair to say we probably won't have him under 5.5 mil$ at least.

What do you guys think of this?

RichardZednik#20 is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 08:51 PM
  #2
Mats NAslund
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Ottawa
Posts: 4,168
vCash: 50
I say this ...trade Theodore pay Kovalev 15 million over 3 years! In return for Theodore Montreal will get 2 maybe 3 very good young hockey players. Allows Garon to prove to everyone how good he is and everyone is happy! Especially me

Theodore Brisebois Montreals 1st and 2nd round picks to Washington at the draft table for Witt and Washington's 1st (Ovenchkin)

Mats NAslund is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 08:51 PM
  #3
didjuicythat
@m_desroches
 
didjuicythat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 5,251
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardZednik#20
Primeau add an awful season with great playoff, he is now a 3rd liner and not a treat offensivly anymore. He was winning 5 mil$ last year.
That's not how I see it. Primeau may not be the offensive force he has been in the late 90's, but he is still valuable to any NHL team. He can play the 2nd line centerman role, and does it all on the ice. Primeau can score, take and deliver hits, play on the powerplay as well as the penalty kill unit, brings size and is physically intimidating, is a pretty good skater, passes the puck well, is a good forechecker, and a good leader on and off the ice. Maybe he's not known as an offensive threat in the NHL anymore, but still, he'd be the closest we'd have from having the total package player if he was playing for Montreal.

While no one in the NHL, not even Lidstrom or Forsberg, deserves 4.5M, I don't think Primeau was asking too much for what he brings to the Philadelphia Flyers. Kovalev may bring other intangibles, such as great scoring and playmaking abilities, but I personally never pictured him as better than Primeau.

didjuicythat is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 08:55 PM
  #4
Brisson11
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: On the rink
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,264
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to Brisson11
It depends on which Primeau your talking about, the one in the reg. season or playoffs. If Primeau continues him playoff game, and he makes 4.5 mil, Kovy should make around that.

Brisson11 is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 09:35 PM
  #5
deandebean
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Gatineau, câlisse
Country: uriname
Posts: 9,020
vCash: 500
No, in fact I believe Primeau's contract is lowering Kovalev's value. Kovalev had 2 horrendous seasons, and one solid playoff run. Much the same for Primeau. I suspect you could get Kovalev for the same amount. The 9 M $ per season contracts are history. Even the 8 M $.

deandebean is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 10:02 PM
  #6
loadie
Official Beer Taster
 
loadie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: New Brunswick
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,108
vCash: 500
I think we can get Kovy for less than what he makes right now. Both Primeau and Kovy both sucked in the reg season for past couple of years, but the playoffs turned them around for a bit. I think Philly takes a risk with Primeau just because of the shot to the pumpkin earlier in the season. Another shot, and he might be another Lindros.

loadie is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 10:13 PM
  #7
Natural Habs Fan
Registered User
 
Natural Habs Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,022
vCash: 500
I think this is a sign that the league is going to fix itself. A few years ago Primeau would've probably sat out until he got a $3 million raise. Now, he's taking a pay cut.

Natural Habs Fan is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 10:30 PM
  #8
RE-HABS
Registered User
 
RE-HABS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: CANADA
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,885
vCash: 500
I have no problem with the players making money they deserve, but that is totally it...they should have to earn that money through bonuses and clauses in their contracts when they have a good year.

I think the players should go for a team 30 - 35 million dollar cap, but have no ceiling on bonuses or incentives. As an example a star type player could earn a base salary of say $3 million guaranteed but if he gets 'X' amount of goals he gets $250,000 more, if he gets 'X' amount of assists he gets $250,000 more, if he gets 'X' amount of points he gets $500,000 more...thats $1 million more in his contract already and more could be made for awards, allstar teams, playoffs and Stanley Cup win. A player could still make his money, only thing is he really has to earn it and has to work and play to his best abilities to achieve that amount.

If something of that nature were to happen you would see players playing better to meet their bonuses and teams would be better and more competitive.

If players and the union wouldn't go for it I think it tells you something about their character and real love...its all about the guaranteed $'s then right?

I'm sure owners wouldn't care and would be more than willing to pay a player $9 million in salary and bonuses if he has a great year, they sellout, have merchandise selling like crazy and win the Cup...it would make them money. They don't want to just give the money away with getting nothing in return, after all these are business men who always want to see a return in some way when it is their money they are investing (just like in the business world they deal in). No one wants another Jagr deal to blow up in their face.

The league needs a Cap, and the Players need to realize that.

RE-HABS is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 10:49 PM
  #9
toughstuff
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Gatineau
Posts: 409
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Natural Habs Fan
I think this is a sign that the league is going to fix itself. A few years ago Primeau would've probably sat out until he got a $3 million raise. Now, he's taking a pay cut.
I agree. Just look at what Robert Holik got on the market.

toughstuff is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 11:43 PM
  #10
Rahan
Registered User
 
Rahan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Chicoutimi
Posts: 1,760
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS
I think the players should go for a team 30 - 35 million dollar cap, but have no ceiling on bonuses or incentives. As an example a star type player could earn a base salary of say $3 million guaranteed but if he gets 'X' amount of goals he gets $250,000 more, if he gets 'X' amount of assists he gets $250,000 more, if he gets 'X' amount of points he gets $500,000 more...thats $1 million more in his contract already and more could be made for awards, allstar teams, playoffs and Stanley Cup win. A player could still make his money, only thing is he really has to earn it and has to work and play to his best abilities to achieve that amount.
"The New York Rangers announced today that they have signed Peter Forsberg to a contract of $500,000, with a signing bonus of $5 millions, and other bonuses to performance, such as $3 millions if he scores 5 goals, $2 millions if he registers 20 assists."

You can see the HUGE loopholes there?

Rahan is offline  
Old
06-14-2004, 11:52 PM
  #11
Tuggy
Registered User
 
Tuggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Saint John
Country: Canada
Posts: 29,799
vCash: 500
THIS is what is wrong with the NHL. 17 million for Primeau Brutal just brutal.

Tuggy is offline  
Old
06-15-2004, 12:52 AM
  #12
EaGLE1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Quebec City
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,442
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by deandebean
No, in fact I believe Primeau's contract is lowering Kovalev's value. Kovalev had 2 horrendous seasons, and one solid playoff run. Much the same for Primeau. I suspect you could get Kovalev for the same amount. The 9 M $ per season contracts are history. Even the 8 M $.
2 horrendous season??? You are wrong. Only 1.

EaGLE1 is offline  
Old
06-15-2004, 07:02 AM
  #13
Marksman
Registered User
 
Marksman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Country: Finland
Posts: 3,628
vCash: 500
I dont think you can draw parallels like that. They are two different players.

Primeau is a captain for his team, who brings veteran leadership into lockerroom and physical presence on ice. He plays center on their shutdown line, which is propably second most important forward slot on the team, after 1st line center. Hes just too big part of his team for Clarke to lowball.

Kovalev is a scoring line winger whose performance is very much dependent on who he plays with. His best years came riding Lemieux coattails - resulting crazy 6.6M contract from Rangers. There wont be nobody offering that much now and I'm sure he and his agent realize that. If he wants to have long term deal anywhere, before CBA hassle is cleared he will have to take a big pay cut.

Marksman is offline  
Old
06-15-2004, 08:00 AM
  #14
All-Star
Registered User
 
All-Star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Snake Mountain
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,430
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RE-HABS
I think the players should go for a team 30 - 35 million dollar cap, but have no ceiling on bonuses or incentives. As an example a star type player could earn a base salary of say $3 million guaranteed but if he gets 'X' amount of goals he gets $250,000 more, if he gets 'X' amount of assists he gets $250,000 more, if he gets 'X' amount of points he gets $500,000 more...thats $1 million more in his contract already and more could be made for awards, allstar teams, playoffs and Stanley Cup win. A player could still make his money, only thing is he really has to earn it and has to work and play to his best abilities to achieve that amount.
Nice idea in theory, but you'd see a major increase in ice-time complaints; some players would probably go as far as demanding a guaranteed ice-time clause in their contract, which would then take-away the coach’s ability of playing the hot hand...

All-Star is offline  
Old
06-15-2004, 09:05 AM
  #15
Darz
Registered User
 
Darz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Where's the ANY key?
Country: Canada
Posts: 15,424
vCash: 500
I think the Primeau contract will actually help the habs in signing Kovalev.

Regardless of what you think of Primeau, the bottom line is he took a pay cut from his last contract, after increasing his value with a good playoff run, and still being relatively young. If all these factors were at play a couple of years ago Primeau would of gotten a $6M a year ciontract no doubt....so this is a signal to Kovalev and all other free agents....without a T.V. contract in the U.S. (that actaully makes the league some money) and a uncertain future, the well is a little dryer than it used to be.

Money wise, Primeau and Kovalev aren't far off.

Darz is offline  
Old
06-15-2004, 09:16 AM
  #16
Blind Gardien
Global Moderator
nexus of the crisis
 
Blind Gardien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Four Winds Bar
Country: France
Posts: 19,839
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichardZednik#20
I tought we could start a little discussion on this.
With The new signature of Keith Primeau in Philly(17mil$ for 4 years=4.25mil$/year) does this make Kovalev tougher to sign at 4.5 mil$ like everybody wants.
I don't think they're very comparable players, or in very comparable positions. But just the fact that a high-profile guy like Primeau took a pay cut after a hugely successful performance in the playoffs should set a good example.
Quote:
-Primeau add an awful season with great playoff, he is now a 3rd liner and not a treat offensivly anymore. He was winning 5 mil$ last year.
I don't think it's entirely fair to say that Primeau had "an awful season". He was asked to assume a purely defensive role for the first time in his career, and by all accounts did a great job of it. Many complained that he wasn't a Selke finalist, despite missing time with a concussion. And don't tell anybody in Toronto or Tampa that he's not a threat offensively anymore...
Quote:
-Kovalev add an awful season with great playoff performance, he is a top winger on most team and a big treat for all teams defence. He was winning 6.6 mil$.
The biggest difference in my mind is that when Kovalev has an unproductive offensive season, as he did this year, he brings absolutely nothing else to the game. At least when Primeau has an unproductive offensive season, he is still immensely valuable to his team in other ways.
Quote:
So I think it's fair to say we probably won't have him under 5.5 mil$ at least.
What do you guys think of this?
I would turn it right around... Primeau is a better player than Kovalev, Primeau is more valuable to his team than Kovalev is to his team, and I would rather have Primeau on my team than Kovalev, so if this contract is any indication (which I don't really believe it is) then we should be able to sign Kovalev for even less than $4M.

Blind Gardien is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:19 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.