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Joni Pitkanen: Future Norris Trophy Winner

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06-10-2004, 08:10 PM
  #26
dedalus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adurn
I'm not talking about the instinct to avoid the hit, I'm talking about incidents where the head is jarred and if the brain is prepared for it or not. In cases where the hit is a surprise and impact is not expected, it's more likely to cause a concussion.

If the player with the puck glances up just before the hit, the brain knows it should brace itself for the collision.
Uh huh. And then what does it do? Tighten itself up? It's an organ not a muscle; it has no way of bracing itself for impact any more than your heart or liver can "brace" themselves. All it can do is tell the body to guard it in some way.

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06-10-2004, 08:16 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
When we say 3rd line, we mean checking line, which is what Prims primary role was. But then again, all of the flyers lines were a little bit blurry.
No, look at the context of the statement: "Primeau scored 9 goals in three rounds. Do you think he shouldn't be on the third line?"

The context is the offensive production of Primeau compared to the offensive production of Fedotenko. The point is, call his role whatever you like, Primeau scored 9 goals because he got a ton of minutes - more than any other forward on the team.

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06-10-2004, 09:44 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
No, look at the context of the statement: "Primeau scored 9 goals in three rounds. Do you think he shouldn't be on the third line?"

The context is the offensive production of Primeau compared to the offensive production of Fedotenko. The point is, call his role whatever you like, Primeau scored 9 goals because he got a ton of minutes - more than any other forward on the team.
No, the point is that Prim will remain our third line center (as in checking line center) regardless of the fact that he was getting the most ice time and was scoring goals. That is what he was refering to.

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06-10-2004, 09:55 PM
  #29
panayiotis
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The Norris

Quote:
Originally Posted by easton122
Holy Crap I just saw a well known Flyers poster label Joni as a bust. The kid was a rookie. You have to be insane if you weren't happy with his year. He ran our PP as a 20 year old! I think the only thing we have to worry about is his concussion problems but other than that I was more than happy with Joni's performance. He most importantly showed he has offense which means at worst he could be a PP QB who is below average defensively. He sure as hell wasn't horrible in his own zone.

The true test for Pitkanen will be this off-season. He needs to work his tail off and get a bit stronger so he is able to last next season. Even if he sucks next year or puts up a similar season he is way way to young to even think about calling him a bust. We have to wait until he is in his 3rd season at least.

Fedotenko is not a 1st line or even a 2nd line player yet. He is a master of the garbage goal and he can score if set up nicely. He proved he is clutch but other than that he was still a 3rd liner if he doesn't play with Lecavalier and St. Louis. I am amazed some of you are saying he was a rare talent and you knew the whole time he was gonna be amazing. Just the fact Pitkanen could become a Norris winner makes this trade worth it. Fedotenko would have waited years before getting a chance to maybe play with Carter or Richards when they were good and young. By then he would have been traded or hated. Cut the crap because saying Fedotenko is better than Pitkanen isn't even a rational opinion. Fedotenko is entering his prime while Pitkanen is a rookie.
The problem is my friend. Joni has had three concussions allreay. Two knee operations. He was never pinned as a future one d-man. He might develope that way. The problem with youre trophy stuff. Hannan and Regyer will dominate the league for the next seven years. You are way off about Rusty. I guess you never saw Tonelli play. Rusty allready helped win the most important trophy in hockey.

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06-10-2004, 10:07 PM
  #30
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Hannan will dominate for the next 7 years?


:lol :lol :lol :lol

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06-10-2004, 10:49 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panayiotis
He was never pinned as a future one d-man. He might develope that way. :


Yes he was. Why do you think the Flyers moved up to draft him? You're so far out of reality pany, it's ridiculous.

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06-10-2004, 10:53 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Carlson
No, the point is that Prim will remain our third line center .... That is what he was refering to.
1. Oops! No one had yet mentioned Primeau's ice time or goal scoring when adurn wrote his post. Therefore he could not possibly have meant "Prim will remain our third line center (as in checking line center) regardless of the fact that he was getting the most ice time and was scoring goals." In fact no one had mentioned Primeau at all when he wrote his post, therefore he could not possibly be referring to anything.

2. Given that the entire thread is based on Fedotenko, I'm not sure what makes you believe he's discussing Primeau in isolation. Saying that "Prim will remain our third line center (as in checking line center) regardless of the fact that he was getting the most ice time and was scoring goals" has absolutely no relationship to Fedotenko or what was being discussed in the thread prior to that. The remark you attribute to adurn is one that stands outside of any context, so are you claiming that he just showed up to make some random and unconnected comment? I doubt he's that lost. He was introducing Primeau as a point of comparison to Fedotenko; simple as that.

In any case you can label it anyway you like, the point remains. "3rd line center," "checking line center," whatever you choose to call it, those guys do not average 19:00 of ice per game. Craig MacTavish was one of the finest "checking centers" / "3rd line centers" of his generation, but I doubt he saw 19:00 on any given night much less averaged it over 18 playoff games.

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06-10-2004, 11:29 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panayiotis
The problem with youre trophy stuff. Hannan and Regyer will dominate the league for the next seven years.

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Old
06-11-2004, 12:42 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dedalus
1. Oops! No one had yet mentioned Primeau's ice time or goal scoring when adurn wrote his post. Therefore he could not possibly have meant "Prim will remain our third line center (as in checking line center) regardless of the fact that he was getting the most ice time and was scoring goals." In fact no one had mentioned Primeau at all when he wrote his post, therefore he could not possibly be referring to anything.

2. Given that the entire thread is based on Fedotenko, I'm not sure what makes you believe he's discussing Primeau in isolation. Saying that "Prim will remain our third line center (as in checking line center) regardless of the fact that he was getting the most ice time and was scoring goals" has absolutely no relationship to Fedotenko or what was being discussed in the thread prior to that. The remark you attribute to adurn is one that stands outside of any context, so are you claiming that he just showed up to make some random and unconnected comment? I doubt he's that lost. He was introducing Primeau as a point of comparison to Fedotenko; simple as that.

In any case you can label it anyway you like, the point remains. "3rd line center," "checking line center," whatever you choose to call it, those guys do not average 19:00 of ice per game. Craig MacTavish was one of the finest "checking centers" / "3rd line centers" of his generation, but I doubt he saw 19:00 on any given night much less averaged it over 18 playoff games.
Actually it stands entirely in context. Fed was refered to as being more than a third line player (which is generally denoted as the checking line on most teams). The reply, I assume felt that this poster was basing Fed's ability solely on the perfomance of Fed this post season, and that he felt normally Fed would play a 3rd or checking line role. (you may disagree with this, but that seems hardly relevant to what you are getting at now) Primeau, who is our 3rd/checking line center, had a similar situation as Fed. Because of his performance in the playoffs his ice-time dramatically increased. But his role will not change on this team because of that playoff performance. Ice time isnt as relevant to this team anyones though, because we role a constantly changing 4 lines for the most part, and a "scoring" line means more who is hot that particular night. The reply was pointing out that Fed will not become a scoring line player simply because of his playoff performance, as is EQUALLY the case with Primeau. His analogy is sound.
And because he was commenting on the players role to their teams as a whole, and based on ability, ice times are irrelevant, especially in reference to the playoffs since it has been stated that those were extenuating circumstances.
Furthermore, in actuallty he was commenting not on Feds actual ability, although that can be assumed, but more exactly on the original posters reasoning.
And this thread is supposed to be about Pitkanen more then Fed, but has been taken off topic by the original poster in this debate between you and me who hijacked the thread.


Last edited by Dave Carlson: 06-11-2004 at 01:07 AM.
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06-11-2004, 01:14 AM
  #35
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I better clear this up. When I mentioned Primeau, I should have said just because a player has one good playoff run, it doesn't mean they're a first line player. I'll be surprised of he ever comes close to duplicating what he did in the playoffs again.

Kevin Stevens put up over 100 points in 2 consecutive seasons playing with Lemieux, and scored 17 and 13 goals in the years they won the cup. Fedotenko is in the same boat. He's lucky to play with who he does.

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06-11-2004, 12:00 PM
  #36
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Quote:
The problem with youre trophy stuff. Hannan and Regyer will dominate the league for the next seven years.
HAHAHAHAHAH


:lol HAHAHAHAHAH

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Old
06-12-2004, 10:57 AM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adurn
I better clear this up. When I mentioned Primeau, I should have said just because a player has one good playoff run, it doesn't mean they're a first line player. I'll be surprised of he ever comes close to duplicating what he did in the playoffs again.

Kevin Stevens put up over 100 points in 2 consecutive seasons playing with Lemieux, and scored 17 and 13 goals in the years they won the cup. Fedotenko is in the same boat. He's lucky to play with who he does.
That's certainly fair enough, although I think your last comment is very UNfair to Fedotenko. He plays with the guys he does because he complements their game. His skill set determines why he's playing with them, not luck, and if Tortorella didn't like what Fedotenko brought bring to that line (or failed to bring as the case may be), luck or no luck, Fedotenko would be playing with someone else. You have to give the guy credit for what he is / has done.

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06-14-2004, 08:26 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panayiotis
The problem is my friend. Joni has had three concussions allreay. Two knee operations. He was never pinned as a future one d-man. He might develope that way. The problem with youre trophy stuff. Hannan and Regyer will dominate the league for the next seven years. You are way off about Rusty. I guess you never saw Tonelli play. Rusty allready helped win the most important trophy in hockey.
3 minor concussions isn't as serious as people are making it out to be. Two knee operations again might become a problem but it might not. So far there is nothing that is pointing towards Pitkanen being injury prone. He had the flu which is expected as a rookie playing a lot more hockey than ever before.

Who is Tonelli?

Rusty helped and yes he is clutch. It's not smart to be saying the Bolt's won this deal already. We sure as hell wouldn't have won a cup just cause we kept Fedotenko. Pitkanen hasn't developed yet. Fedotenko is a 3rd line foward who scores garbage goals. He had 17 goals during the season play a lot with Lecavalier and St. Louis. Thats not too much considering his linemates (look at Keith Jones). He got a lot of good goals in the playoffs though but it doesn't mean he's gonna score 40 next year.

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Old
06-15-2004, 06:01 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by easton122
Who is Tonelli?
John Tonelli, won 4 Cups with the Islanders

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