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Old
08-05-2008, 11:17 AM
  #26
eklunds source
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roman Tanner View Post
The starting goalie is and will be Peter Budaj.
And that's not concerning?

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Old
08-05-2008, 11:27 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
And that's not concerning?
nah, Boods is solid if unspectacular most of the time, and he's gotten better with more playing time in years past. He'll be passable at least as a starter, and he's shown flashes of more. With the excellent D the Avs have this year, I'm very comfortable giving Budaj his big chance to go to the next level and be the #1.

Raycroft is a little worrying though. If he's awful even as a backup Budaj could end up overworked. We'll see, I guess.

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Old
08-05-2008, 11:36 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
this is incorrect. the team has ~11m in cap space without Sakic. Adding ~4.5 in salary in this move and sending down a player for Sakic if he re-signs leaves 7+ for Sakic. If he signs at 5.5 (I think that's a good guess) that's your 1.5 in room. It does leave us a bit hamstrung if Forsberg wanted to come back though, we'd have to make a move.
so here's my 23 man roster, as of now without Sakic

Smyth (6.25) - Stastny (.85) - Hejduk (3.9)
Wolski (2.8) - Hensick (.85) - Svatos (2.05)
Tucker (2.25) - Arnason (1.675) - Jones (.55)
McLeod (.5225) - Guite (.475) - Laperriere (1.15)
Ex: Ledin (.6) - McCormick (.5225)

Foote (3) - Liles (4.2)
Hannan (4.5) - Leopold (1.5)
Salei (3.025) - Clark (3.5)
Tjarnqvist (.75)

Budaj (.7)
Raycroft (.8)

Forwards Caphit Total - 24.445
Defense Caphit Total - 20.475
Goalie Caphit Total - 1.5
Current Total Caphit - $46.42
Cap Space - 10.28

for this trade
Minus - Arnason(1.675), Leopold(1.5) and McCormick(.5225) = 3.6975
Add - Schneider (5.625), Marchant (2.518) = 8.143

obviously sending down a player would add cap space but if you want a 23 man roster, this deal leaves exactly 5.8345 in cap space with 1 remaining roster spot open and Sakic yet to re-sign.


Last edited by P0ckets: 08-05-2008 at 11:47 AM.
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Old
08-05-2008, 11:41 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by eklunds source View Post
And that's not concerning?
it's less concerning than having Jose Theodore being the starter after January last year... by a significant margin.

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Old
08-05-2008, 11:57 AM
  #30
thedoctor
                    
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silence View Post
so here's my 23 man roster, as of now without Sakic

Smyth (6.25) - Stastny (.85) - Hejduk (3.9)
Wolski (2.8) - Hensick (.85) - Svatos (2.05)
Tucker (2.25) - Arnason (1.675) - Jones (.55)
McLeod (.5225) - Guite (.475) - Laperriere (1.15)
Ex: Ledin (.6) - McCormick (.5225)

Foote (3) - Liles (4.2)
Hannan (4.5) - Leopold (1.5)
Salei (3.025) - Clark (3.5)
Tjarnqvist (.75)

Budaj (.7)
Raycroft (.8)

Forwards Caphit Total - 24.445
Defense Caphit Total - 20.475
Goalie Caphit Total - 1.5
Current Total Caphit - $46.42
Cap Space - 10.28

for this trade
Minus - Arnason(1.675), Leopold(1.5) and McCormick(.5225) = 3.6975
Add - Schneider (5.625), Marchant (2.518) = 8.143

obviously sending down a player would add cap space but if you want a 23 man roster, this deal leaves exactly 5.8345 in cap space with 1 remaining roster spot open and Sakic yet to re-sign.
I was assuming they'd send Hensick down if Sakic re-signed, essentially taking the cap space to ~6.7m. So 1.2m in room. You're right that it's a little tighter than I thought, but I think it's still workable.

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Old
08-05-2008, 12:10 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
I was assuming they'd send Hensick down if Sakic re-signed, essentially taking the cap space to ~6.7m. So 1.2m in room. You're right that it's a little tighter than I thought, but I think it's still workable.
in all honesty, the only reason I wouldn't do this trade is because of cap issues should Sakic return. If Joe decides to hang 'em up, then yes, I'd do this trade.

Although I still think Burke needs to add at least a 2nd rounder to this deal

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Old
08-05-2008, 02:01 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
I'm trying to think of amended proposals based on the feedback here, but I'm not coming up with much. An Arnason for Marchant swap makes some sense, but the cap savings don't even get the Ducks under the cap. The ducks need another defenseman coming the other way for Schneider, and anyone the Avs offer is more overpayment than Leopold.

Maybe Schneider + 3rd for Leopold? Schneider + 2nd?
Actually the Ducks don't need any defensemen coming the other way. Schneider is our 3rd pairing guy the way the D is set up. Not that the other guys are all better than him, but they have established pairings and chemistry. They also have a rookie or two that I think they want to work in (Salcido, Mikkelson), and the 3rd pairing is the perfect spot.

Now Colorado may want to send salary and a D back, but it's probably a disincentive for the Ducks. I think they'd rather just send Schneider for a pick or non-roster prospect. But they'll probably have to take some salary back.

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Old
08-05-2008, 02:08 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Captain of the Ship View Post
Think of a word that rhymes with "duck", then add an -ed.

That's what the Avs get in this trade.



They get plucked - plucked of some good players, and add a lot of salary in the process.
So Schneider isn't a good player? lol he's the best player in the trade.

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Old
08-05-2008, 02:10 PM
  #34
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Horrible trade for Colorado.

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Old
08-05-2008, 02:17 PM
  #35
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Horrible trade for Colorado.
care to offer why?

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Old
08-05-2008, 02:35 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
care to offer why?
read the thread

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Old
08-05-2008, 02:52 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora View Post
read the thread
ok

Quote:
in all honesty, the only reason I wouldn't do this trade is because of cap issues should Sakic return. If Joe decides to hang 'em up, then yes, I'd do this trade.
Quote:
So Schneider isn't a good player? lol he's the best player in the trade.
Quote:
I'm not really sure what to think about this deal. The Avs get a point shot in Schneider and the Ducks save money and get a solid younger defenseman in Leopold, but the rest of the trade is pretty much one team's spare parts for another.

If the Avs don't think they can extend Leopold they should probably go ahead and make this deal.
Quote:
Avs are addressing their biggest weakness while giving up basically spare parts. Sure they take on salary, but they can afford it.
Quote:
Ducks get 5M in savings, a depth defenseman who's decent at moving the puck and good in his own end, a 4th line plugger, and a guy who could play second line centre on a team with not much offensive depth like the Ducks.

Both teams win big time.
Quote:
The avs need both of thses kinds of players and aren't giving up anything they would let go during the season if someone actually offered anything for them. Leopold hasn't performed, well, anything in his tenure, Arnason is a tweener top 6(if he wants to play) and McCormick is an AHL call-up away from the euro leagues. Avs take the bulk of the salary, but it's not like they don't have the room or the need for these players, and they aren't signed to long-term contracts.

Looks like a win-win for me.
Quote:
I'd make this trade I think it looks good for both teams.
there's been some people that didn't like it, but they haven't really offered any reason beyond saying the Avs are giving up too much (which most Avs fans seem to disagree) or the Avs aren't leaving themselves enough cap room if Sakic comes back (a legit concern, but there's still 1.2m of room).

So, again, how bout some reasons why this trade SOOO horrible for the Avs?

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Old
08-05-2008, 03:11 PM
  #38
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Not sure why people think that this a "horrible" deal for the Avalanche. They are getting the 2 best players in the trade, both of which fill a void that they need (PP/face-off man). They trade away an offensive but lazy center who is very inconsistent, an injury prone defenseman, and a 4th line, at best, player. Giguere would make this deal every day of the week.


Last edited by bohlmeister: 08-05-2008 at 03:33 PM.
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Old
08-05-2008, 03:31 PM
  #39
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I think the value is very fair, but Colorado might not have the space to get both Sakic and Forsberg back after the deal is done. Leopold is a solid power play qb, but really has no shot.

Not a bad deal, just the circumstances don't help Colorado out too much.

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Old
08-05-2008, 03:43 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
ok

cap figures... that's why...

why would i want to pay marchant what his hit will be to get schneider, HOW MUCH better really does schneider make the avs... if leopold still holds some of the value he did a couple years ago, then it would make sense to move him for another player in the salei mold... two way, can skate with the puck and shoot, but will also play physical..

by getting schneider (i'm going to get pasted for this i know), they get an offensive dman, but also an old slower dman... i don't want slow dmen when i have foote and hannan (please, i'm not saying their bad skaters, just slower stay at homers)...

also, cap figures... i can't see the avalanche making amove until sakic decides, it doesn't make sense and would be dangerous...

it could end up being marchant and schneider and sakic for leopold, mccormick, arnason, and someone that makes salary cap wiggle room possible for the rest of the season...

is schneider worth the headache of juggling money if sakic comes back... i don't think so













there's been some people that didn't like it, but they haven't really offered any reason beyond saying the Avs are giving up too much (which most Avs fans seem to disagree) or the Avs aren't leaving themselves enough cap room if Sakic comes back (a legit concern, but there's still 1.2m of room).

So, again, how bout some reasons why this trade SOOO horrible for the Avs?[/quote]

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Old
08-05-2008, 04:12 PM
  #41
thedoctor
                    
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora View Post
cap figures... that's why...

why would i want to pay marchant what his hit will be to get schneider, HOW MUCH better really does schneider make the avs... if leopold still holds some of the value he did a couple years ago, then it would make sense to move him for another player in the salei mold... two way, can skate with the puck and shoot, but will also play physical..
I would say a true point shot is much more important. Smyth NEEDS one. the whole PP suffered last year because the whole league figured out the Avs couldn't shoot from the point and collapsed down low.

I wouldn't mind getting another Salei for Leopold, I suppose. But how many of those players are available?

Quote:
Originally Posted by andora View Post
by getting schneider (i'm going to get pasted for this i know), they get an offensive dman, but also an old slower dman... i don't want slow dmen when i have foote and hannan (please, i'm not saying their bad skaters, just slower stay at homers)...
I get the concern, but Salei is already slower than Hannan by a good margin, and even without Leopold there's Liles, Cumiskey, and Clark bringing mobility. Again, I think the point shot is worth more than the loss of mobility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andora View Post
also, cap figures... i can't see the avalanche making amove until sakic decides, it doesn't make sense and would be dangerous...

it could end up being marchant and schneider and sakic for leopold, mccormick, arnason, and someone that makes salary cap wiggle room possible for the rest of the season...

is schneider worth the headache of juggling money if sakic comes back... i don't think so
I agree they probably wouldn't make the deal without some info from Sakic or Forsberg. But if Sakic takes a reasonable deal there's plenty of room, as has been shown in this thread above.

training camp is actually pretty close (5 weeks?), so I imagine we hear pretty soon from Joe -- at least with time for this deal.

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Old
08-05-2008, 04:19 PM
  #42
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The Avs could get an elite third liner like PJ Axelsson [Who I think is a very good checker] for basically picks/prospects and he has a very cheap contract. They could also add Sakic and Forsberg into the line-up...[Forsberg after January]

The Avs could have a roster after January like this:
Wolski-Sakic-Svatos
Forsberg-Stastny-Hejduk [VERY GOOD CHEMISTRY]
Smyth-Axelsson-Tucker [WOW!!! Third line.....checking line!]
McCormick/McLeod-Arnason-Jones
Hensick

Foote-Clark
Hannan-Liles
Leopold-Salei

The bottom pairing is a top four on most teams.

Budaj
Raycroft

This is a weak spot.....Is there a good UFA goaltender after next year? Avs fans can just pray that Budaj has a very good year.

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Old
08-05-2008, 04:40 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by #11_THEBEST! View Post
The Avs could get an elite third liner like PJ Axelsson [Who I think is a very good checker] for basically picks/prospects and he has a very cheap contract. They could also add Sakic and Forsberg into the line-up...[Forsberg after January]

The Avs could have a roster after January like this:
Wolski-Sakic-Svatos
Forsberg-Stastny-Hejduk [VERY GOOD CHEMISTRY]
Smyth-Axelsson-Tucker [WOW!!! Third line.....checking line!]
McCormick/McLeod-Arnason-Jones
Hensick

Foote-Clark
Hannan-Liles
Leopold-Salei

The bottom pairing is a top four on most teams.

Budaj
Raycroft

This is a weak spot.....Is there a good UFA goaltender after next year? Avs fans can just pray that Budaj has a very good year.
I'm all for getting Axelsson on the Avs but we'd need to get rid of Arnason.

Arnason to any team for a late-round draft pick? No, how about we just waive him.

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08-05-2008, 04:44 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by andora View Post
cap figures... that's why...

why would i want to pay marchant what his hit will be to get schneider, HOW MUCH better really does schneider make the avs... if leopold still holds some of the value he did a couple years ago, then it would make sense to move him for another player in the salei mold... two way, can skate with the puck and shoot, but will also play physical..

by getting schneider (i'm going to get pasted for this i know), they get an offensive dman, but also an old slower dman... i don't want slow dmen when i have foote and hannan (please, i'm not saying their bad skaters, just slower stay at homers)...
a slower dman??? Where are you guys getting some of this stuff.

the avs get *****, Schneider is slow...Schneider would be the best defensemen on your team right now, now yes adding Marchant to the deal is not necessary but player wise, the avs are hardly getting the short end of the stick. Schneider is the best player in this trade and it's not even close.

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Old
08-05-2008, 05:33 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thedoctor View Post
I would say a true point shot is much more important. Smyth NEEDS one. the whole PP suffered last year because the whole league figured out the Avs couldn't shoot from the point and collapsed down low.
.
and this is where i would put the demand on the coaching... imo, get shots through, period. when you have traffic, and 80 mph and a 95mph slapshot are the same in the sense that if the goalie can't see it, there should be a rebound...

coaching has to take responsibility too, and work and develop the skills we do have, and simply get more pucks to the net... you really don't need a boomer to do that, you just need to pick spots better, create a powerplay with more movement around the edge, or an umbrella where it sets up a lane for a shot through with collapsing traffic..

i would like to see how the coaching addresses it before over extending in salary imho...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Graves View Post
a slower dman??? Where are you guys getting some of this stuff.

the avs get *****, Schneider is slow...Schneider would be the best defensemen on your team right now, now yes adding Marchant to the deal is not necessary but player wise, the avs are hardly getting the short end of the stick. Schneider is the best player in this trade and it's not even close.
and this is where so many threads get twisted, with overreaction posts...

why would schneider be the best dman on our team? explain it to me, sell me on the deal, why am i adding a high 30s aged dman to my team, the avs... sell me

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08-05-2008, 06:36 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andora View Post
why would schneider be the best dman on our team? explain it to me, sell me on the deal, why am i adding a high 30s aged dman to my team, the avs... sell me
On the 3rd defensive pairing minutes last year he got more points and had a higher +- then any d on the Avs while only playing 65 games.

He also has one of the fastest releases on a shot from the point of any player in the NHL. He is solid defensively...actually I think his game is more solid then any other time in his career as he has become a much smarter player position wise in the last few seasons (he was no slouch before). And has massive ultra white teeth that blind the opposition!!!

I would love to have Schneider on the Ducks again this year, however I just don't see how the Ducks can fit him under the cap with Nieds and Prongs salaries there also so he becomes the odd man out.

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Old
08-05-2008, 07:32 PM
  #47
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Schnieder sucks. Dude got smoked over and over again against Dallas. The first point of being a defenseman is defense

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08-06-2008, 01:54 AM
  #48
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So Schneider isn't a good player? lol he's the best player in the trade.
2 old and overpaid players are not very valuable assests in a hard cap system. Burke now understands this as evidence of the Bertuzzi buyout. When will his legion of fans catch on?

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08-06-2008, 01:56 AM
  #49
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I'm all for getting Axelsson on the Avs but we'd need to get rid of Arnason.

Arnason to any team for a late-round draft pick? No, how about we just waive him.

Maybe you could tell him that he is playing against EDmonton every game. He is an Oiler killer every time they play.

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Old
08-06-2008, 10:05 AM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camel View Post
On the 3rd defensive pairing minutes last year he got more points and had a higher +- then any d on the Avs while only playing 65 games.

He also has one of the fastest releases on a shot from the point of any player in the NHL. He is solid defensively...actually I think his game is more solid then any other time in his career as he has become a much smarter player position wise in the last few seasons (he was no slouch before). And has massive ultra white teeth that blind the opposition!!!

I would love to have Schneider on the Ducks again this year, however I just don't see how the Ducks can fit him under the cap with Nieds and Prongs salaries there also so he becomes the odd man out.

the etire anaheim defense corps scored 171 points, the entire avs corps scored 163, is schneider's salary worth adding 8 points to ?

banking on a healthy leopold and depending on clark, i think a more offense by committee is workable...

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