HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Notices

Outside looking in?........Jamtin, Nedved, Korpikoski?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
08-06-2008, 08:24 AM
  #26
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDubinskyNYR17 View Post
i doubt sather paid rissmiller 1 mil to sit in hartford. rissmiller is an nhl player.
Rissmiller will turn 30 3 weeks into the season, yet he's only played 2 full NHL seasons. I'd hardly call him a lock as an NHL player. Last year we sent down Hutchinson and Kaspar. I don't know what Hutch was making, but Kaspar was making over 3 mil. Staal earned a spot over both of them.

And 1 million is chump change to the Rangers. Korpikoski is making 1 million just to learn how to be an NHL player. Korpikoski could supplant Rissmiller with no impact on the cap. Or Byers could supplant him and save us some money. Byers' game is probably more along the lines of what they are looking for from Rissmiller, size and grit, and Byers has more offensive upside.

So no, Rissmiller is not a lock to make the team, despite what he's being paid. He's only on a 1 year contract anyway. Voros is more of a lock than Rissmiller given the length of his deal.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 08:25 AM
  #27
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,329
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Rissmiller will turn 30 3 weeks into the season, yet he's only played 2 full NHL seasons. I'd hardly call him a lock as an NHL player. Last year we sent down Hutchinson and Kaspar. I don't know what Hutch was making, but Kaspar was making over 3 mil. Staal earned a spot over both of them.

And 1 million is chump change to the Rangers. Korpikoski is making 1 million just to learn how to be an NHL player. Korpikoski could supplant Rissmiller with no impact on the cap. Or Byers could supplant him and save us some money. Byers' game is probably more along the lines of what they are looking for from Rissmiller, size and grit, and Byers has more offensive upside.

So no, Rissmiller is not a lock to make the team, despite what he's being paid. He's only on a 1 year contract anyway. Voros is more of a lock than Rissmiller given the length of his deal.
He paid Kasparaitis 6M to play in Hartford.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 08:59 AM
  #28
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He paid Kasparaitis 6M to play in Hartford.
Must of been his cap number I was looking at. Either way, it only further proves my point.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 09:05 AM
  #29
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by mti79 View Post
Oh, and for the people saying Prucha's production was all because of Jagr than here are the facts:
2005-06: 30 goals. 16 w/o Jagr assists, 9 w/primary, 5 w/secondary.
2006-07: 22 goals. 13 w/o Jagr assists, 7 w/primary, 2 w/secondary.
2007-08: 7 goals. 6 w/o Jagr assists, 0 w/primary, 1 w/secondary.

Is this definitive? No. I can't tell whether Jags was on the ice or not based on this and if his presence made any difference. Just pointing out that Jagr did not register an assist in 35 of his 59 goals, had a primary assist in 16, and a secondary assist in 8.
in 06-07 prucha played alot with cullen i believe and callahan.

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 09:06 AM
  #30
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,329
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
Must of been his cap number I was looking at. Either way, it only further proves my point.
I know. I was agreeing with you.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 09:14 AM
  #31
Rags225
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Queens, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 5,371
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
I'm sorry but isn't that what Prucha is? So you wanna add in Moore and a 1st to get the same type of player in Prucha?
Prucha is not a 25 goal scorer. he had one year of 30 goals, and then fell to 22 and then 7. That does not make you 25 goal scorer year in and year out. mike York popped in 26 goals his rookie year and also had a 22 goal year. Would you consider him a 25 goal scorer as well. Probably not. hell Alexander Daigle had a 26 goal and a 20 goal year. I'm pretty sure he is considered a bust, and not a 25 goal scorer. 1 good year does not make you a 25 goal scorer. it is about consistency.


can he maybe put up those #'s again. yes. If he gets top 6 minutes and PP time is he a lock to get it. NO. Since he creates no offense on his own he needs alot of things to go right for him to do it again. That 30 goal year is what you call over-achieving.

Question for all Pro-Prucha people- Don't you think that there is a good reason why Renney would bench him most of last year, and mostly in the playoffs. If he is this consistent 30 goal threat wouldn't you think that he would be playing? Obviously he has a very very flawed game otherwise he would have been playing more, especially over a player who is very similar to him in Dawes. But Dawes is more versatile. Look I know Prucha is a very likeable player, and a player we all want to succeed but you have to look past that, and be honest in what he can do and that isn't a whole lot. If it was Renney would try everything to get him in the lineup, not try everything to keep him out of the lineup.

Rags225 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 09:52 AM
  #32
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
He paid Kasparaitis 6M to play in Hartford.
They did but not RIGHT after he was signed...

The Rangers signed Rissmiller for a reason (I don't agree with the signing but that's not the point) he is going to be in Prague on opening night...

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 10:22 AM
  #33
TheRedressor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United Nations
Posts: 3,673
vCash: 500
If there is a young cheaper faster player in training camp, Rismiller will be collecting his paycheck from Hartford.

TheRedressor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 10:35 AM
  #34
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRedressor View Post
If there is a young cheaper faster player in training camp, Rismiller will be collecting his paycheck from Hartford.
How many free agents are courted, signed, and then waived after a bad training camp?

Training camp isn't the only barometer teams use to judge a player....Short of forgetting how to skate Rissmiller will be on the team to start the season..

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 11:17 AM
  #35
MikeyLikesHockey
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 603
vCash: 500
Career Statistics
YEAR TEAM GP G A PTS +/- PIM SOG SPCT PPG PPA SHG SHA GWG ATOI PROD
2005-2006 NYR 68 30 17 47 3 32 130 23.1 16 6 0 0 2 13:42 19:48
2006-2007 NYR 79 22 18 40 -7 30 136 16.2 8 8 0 0 2 13:00 25:40
2007-2008 NYR 62 7 10 17 3 22 89 7.9 2 2 0 0 1 11:38 42:26

Look at the last two numbers for each year. ATOI and PROD. Ice time went down and production went down as well. really bad in 2007-2008 . Remember he was injured, and did not play well when he came back.

If he did what he needed to do in the offseason and bulk up a bit, I see him making the squad. If not then he will be back in the AHL . The Rangers have invested too much in him to just turn away, and we can't really trade him till he plays better. Let him get back to form in Hartford and give him a shot this year.

MikeyLikesHockey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 11:22 AM
  #36
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeyGSpot View Post
Career Statistics
YEAR TEAM GP G A PTS +/- PIM SOG SPCT PPG PPA SHG SHA GWG ATOI PROD
2005-2006 NYR 68 30 17 47 3 32 130 23.1 16 6 0 0 2 13:42 19:48
2006-2007 NYR 79 22 18 40 -7 30 136 16.2 8 8 0 0 2 13:00 25:40
2007-2008 NYR 62 7 10 17 3 22 89 7.9 2 2 0 0 1 11:38 42:26

Look at the last two numbers for each year. ATOI and PROD. Ice time went down and production went down as well. really bad in 2007-2008 . Remember he was injured, and did not play well when he came back.

If he did what he needed to do in the offseason and bulk up a bit, I see him making the squad. If not then he will be back in the AHL . The Rangers have invested too much in him to just turn away, and we can't really trade him till he plays better. Let him get back to form in Hartford and give him a shot this year.
so prucha can get snatched on waivers honestly id rather trade him. i think prucha must go through waivers this year.

BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 11:28 AM
  #37
007
Olympic nut
 
007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Mannahatta
Country: Lebanon
Posts: 3,471
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to 007 Send a message via MSN to 007
On the Korpedo:

I think he could well be ready for the NHL (we'll see what happens in camp), but I would be fine with him spending more time in the AHL, if he were to able to dominate the game there. It might open up his scoring ability some more.

007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 03:31 PM
  #38
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,976
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
How many free agents are courted, signed, and then waived after a bad training camp?

Training camp isn't the only barometer teams use to judge a player....Short of forgetting how to skate Rissmiller will be on the team to start the season..
So your saying if Rissmiller comes in and bombs (something I wouldn't be shocked about listening to SJ fans) and another player comes in and player better that Rissmiller should be dressed for opening night because we signed him as a UFA? Riiiiiiiiiiight. I think your going a little too far with this idea that if you sign a FA he HAS to be on your roster. Rissmiller being demoted, waived, or whatever else you want is not going to make other FA's not want to come here.

I mean SOS with your thinking why have training camp at all since our roster is all set and ready to go to Prague. I don't think you appreciate the competition that is going to be in camp.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 03:34 PM
  #39
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,976
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by 007 View Post
On the Korpedo:

I think he could well be ready for the NHL (we'll see what happens in camp), but I would be fine with him spending more time in the AHL, if he were to able to dominate the game there. It might open up his scoring ability some more.
Well we will know in training camp and preseason if he needs another year in the AHL or if he is ready to bump someone out of the team and take his spot. I agree, I think he is ready. According to Maloney he was ready two seasons ago defensively but needed to work on his offense.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 03:48 PM
  #40
GAGLine
Registered User
 
GAGLine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 8,569
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
They did but not RIGHT after he was signed...

The Rangers signed Rissmiller for a reason (I don't agree with the signing but that's not the point) he is going to be in Prague on opening night...
We also got Hutchinson in the Cullen deal for a reason, yet he spent the year in Hartford. If Korp or Byers are better than Rissmiller, do you really think they are going to play Rissmiller? The idea is to put the best possible team on the ice.

Maybe Korp and Byers aren't ready and Rissmiller wins the job. If so, then he's done exactly what he was brought in for, to provide insurance in case the kids aren't ready. This really isn't complicated.

GAGLine is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 03:53 PM
  #41
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
So your saying if Rissmiller comes in and bombs (something I wouldn't be shocked about listening to SJ fans) and another player comes in and player better that Rissmiller should be dressed for opening night because we signed him as a UFA? Riiiiiiiiiiight. I think your going a little too far with this idea that if you sign a FA he HAS to be on your roster. Rissmiller being demoted, waived, or whatever else you want is not going to make other FA's not want to come here.

I mean SOS with your thinking why have training camp at all since our roster is all set and ready to go to Prague. I don't think you appreciate the competition that is going to be in camp.
Ok...

Name a free agent that signed with a team and got waived after training camp...Much like how you couldn't name a player that was traded right after signing a contract you won't come up with a guy for this question either...

The Rangers pursued and signed Rissmiller in the first few hours of free agency Do you really think they will waive this player for a bad training camp? You realize that camp isn't the only way a team evaluates a player...They will also take into account ya know..what the player has done in his career...ya know the reasons they signed him in the first place......

You have training camp to see who fits in with who etc.....Do you see ANY real spots open for anybody to advance? Seriously, look at the roster and tell me it isn't set?

Even if Rissmiller bombs their is a 99% chance he is making the team out of camp....To think otherwise is wishful thinking....

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 03:55 PM
  #42
BDubinskyNYR17*
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: New York
Posts: 10,761
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to BDubinskyNYR17*
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Well we will know in training camp and preseason if he needs another year in the AHL or if he is ready to bump someone out of the team and take his spot. I agree, I think he is ready. According to Maloney he was ready two seasons ago defensively but needed to work on his offense.
i dont buy that, i mean he could not beaten hollweg for a spot . i know 2 different type of players. and u dont want korpikoski on the 4th line but at least he would have made the team and then u go from there. have him on a 3rd line with drury and sjostrom wont be so bad this season if he makes it.

naslund gomez zherdev
fritche dubinsky callahan
korpikoski drury Sjostrom
Voros Rissmiller Jamtin

I think Prucha and betts r gone. rissmiler did not need to be signed. remember jason ward and people said ahl signing, well it was not. rissmiller servers a purpose on this team or he would not be signed.


Last edited by BDubinskyNYR17*: 08-06-2008 at 04:11 PM.
BDubinskyNYR17* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 03:55 PM
  #43
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
We also got Hutchinson in the Cullen deal for a reason, yet he spent the year in Hartford. If Korp or Byers are better than Rissmiller, do you really think they are going to play Rissmiller? The idea is to put the best possible team on the ice.

Maybe Korp and Byers aren't ready and Rissmiller wins the job. If so, then he's done exactly what he was brought in for, to provide insurance in case the kids aren't ready. This really isn't complicated.
Hutchinson was traded for in a salary dump trade...That isn't the same as pursuing and signing a guy within hours of him hitting the open market as a free agent...

Rissmiller was signed as a free agent...

do you get the diffrence?

You don't sign guys for $1M a year to "provide insurance" in case the kids aren't ready...

I think the Rissmiller signing was terrible and un-needed but you can bank on him being on the team....to start the season...

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 04:11 PM
  #44
Fortius
 
Fortius's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Country: Canada
Posts: 343
vCash: 500
Rissmiller was signed before Sjostrom, right? Maybe they didn't anticipate being able to re-signing Sjostrom for cheap...

Fortius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 04:17 PM
  #45
RANGERS2448
Registered User
 
RANGERS2448's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 389
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by nyrJeff View Post
Actually, Prucha is a 7-goal scorer, last I checked.
only when he gets no ice time and no pp time give the boy a chance

RANGERS2448 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 04:18 PM
  #46
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,976
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
Ok...

Name a free agent that signed with a team and got waived after training camp...Much like how you couldn't name a player that was traded right after signing a contract you won't come up with a guy for this question either...

The Rangers pursued and signed Rissmiller in the first few hours of free agency Do you really think they will waive this player for a bad training camp? You realize that camp isn't the only way a team evaluates a player...They will also take into account ya know..what the player has done in his career...ya know the reasons they signed him in the first place......

You have training camp to see who fits in with who etc.....Do you see ANY real spots open for anybody to advance? Seriously, look at the roster and tell me it isn't set?

Even if Rissmiller bombs their is a 99% chance he is making the team out of camp....To think otherwise is wishful thinking....

No SOS I do not feel this roser is set. I think there are a few players that need to show something in camp to keep thier spots and a few players who if they show something could get a spot.


Players who need to have a good camp to keep thier rosters spots:
Callahan
Prucha
Rissmiller
Voros
Girardi
Betts
Dawes

Players who have a real chance to make the team:
Korpikoski
Jessiman
Byers
Potter
Sangs
Moore
Anisimov
Jamtin
Nedved

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 04:21 PM
  #47
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,976
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by BDubinskyNYR17 View Post
i dont buy that, i mean he could not beaten hollweg for a spot . i know 2 different type of players. and u dont want korpikoski on the 4th line but at least he would have made the team and then u go from there. have him on a 3rd line with drury and sjostrom wont be so bad this season if he makes it.

naslund gomez zherdev
fritche dubinsky callahan
korpikoski drury Sjostrom
Voros Rissmiller Jamtin

I think Prucha and betts r gone. rissmiler did not need to be signed. remember jason ward and people said ahl signing, well it was not. rissmiller servers a purpose on this team or he would not be signed.
How can you not buy it when we drafted him he was known as a good defensive winger who had some offensive upside. I have never questioned his defensive or skating ability, always his ability to score. I thought he was a 1st rounder thanks to playing with Tukonen, but now I see I coulda been wrong and had it the other way around. Korp should be on this hockey team this year unless he has a piss poor camp.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 04:27 PM
  #48
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
No SOS I do not feel this roser is set. I think there are a few players that need to show something in camp to keep thier spots and a few players who if they show something could get a spot.
This is the list you came up with? Girardi is going to get sent down for a bad camp after 1 1/2 years in the league?


Callahan-come on no way he is sent back to hartford where he has nothing to prove
Prucha-maybe but probably won't be waived
Rissmiller-just signed
Vorros-just signed
Girardi-just signed and besides that...who would take his spot?
Betts-best 4th line center in hockey...maybe the teams best penalty killer
Dawes-come on...do you really think if dawes has bad camp hes getting waived?

Players who have a real chance to make the team:
Korpikoski-makes to much money..
Jessiman-please..
Byers-he plays over who exactly?
Potter-playing over who exactly?
Sangs-not ready
Moore-is a depth forward...
Anisimov-who is he going to play over...dubinsky?
Jamtin-how many times have you seen him play?
Nedved-yeah right...

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 04:39 PM
  #49
Radek27
Registered User
 
Radek27's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 4,976
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner View Post
This is the list you came up with? Girardi is going to get sent down for a bad camp after 1 1/2 years in the league?


Callahan-come on no way he is sent back to hartford where he has nothing to prove
Prucha-maybe but probably won't be waived
Rissmiller-just signed
Vorros-just signed
Girardi-just signed and besides that...who would take his spot?
Betts-best 4th line center in hockey...maybe the teams best penalty killer
Dawes-come on...do you really think if dawes has bad camp hes getting waived?

Players who have a real chance to make the team:
Korpikoski-makes to much money..
Jessiman-please..
Byers-he plays over who exactly?
Potter-playing over who exactly?
Sangs-not ready
Moore-is a depth forward...
Anisimov-who is he going to play over...dubinsky?
Jamtin-how many times have you seen him play?
Nedved-yeah right...

So why have training camp? You do realize that since Renney has been here a rookie has made the team out of training camp every year right? And if you really don't believe if Dawes puts up goose eggs across the board in preseason his status for a sure roster spot doesn't go away?

Ok lets say 5 preseason games go by

Dawes- 5gp 0g 0a 0pts
Korpikoski- 5gp 3g 3a 6pts
Nedved- 4gp 1g 3a 4pts
Jessiman 4gp 2g 0a 2pts but plays very physical and has some nice fights.

One roster spot left to give at training camp, who do you give that last spot to? Dawes? If thats the case what kind of message does that send to a guy like Korp? Or you want him to leave like Baranka did also?

I know this is silly but i'm just trying to make a point of why we have training camp and preseason.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
08-06-2008, 04:49 PM
  #50
Son of Steinbrenner
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Country: Tromelin
Posts: 9,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
So why have training camp? You do realize that since Renney has been here a rookie has made the team out of training camp every year right? And if you really don't believe if Dawes puts up goose eggs across the board in preseason his status for a sure roster spot doesn't go away?

Ok lets say 5 preseason games go by

Dawes- 5gp 0g 0a 0pts
Korpikoski- 5gp 3g 3a 6pts
Nedved- 4gp 1g 3a 4pts
Jessiman 4gp 2g 0a 2pts but plays very physical and has some nice fights.

One roster spot left to give at training camp, who do you give that last spot to? Dawes? If thats the case what kind of message does that send to a guy like Korp? Or you want him to leave like Baranka did also?

I know this is silly but i'm just trying to make a point of why we have training camp and preseason.
You have camp to see where everybody fits....you have camp to get the team ready to start the season...

I don't think pre-season games matters that much...

You know what kind of message gets sent to Korpikoski? "sorry Dawes has proved himself in the NHL and makes less money then you....keep your head up and when an injury comes or if a veteran can't hack it during the season you'll be back"

I don't want Korpikoski to not make the team...i didn't want voros or rissmiller signed but the reality of the situation is what it is....


I don't care that a kid has made the team every year out of camp.....haven't deserving kids also been squeezed out of spots in camp?

It's not like the Rangers would have a total veteran roster...would they?

btw if baranka played consistant and stayed healthy he would've been on the team already....things don't always work out though...

Son of Steinbrenner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:34 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.