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08-04-2008, 09:44 AM
  #26
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I like Booth, but I think he peaked last season. I would love to be wrong, but I dont see him going far above what he scored last season. I think he is a 50 point player in this league, averaging about 25 goals a season at the most, which is not that terrible. The one thing we call all agree upon is that Booth gives us 110% every night, and if more players played with that desire, we would of killed our playoff drought already.

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08-04-2008, 11:02 AM
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I like Booth, but I think he peaked last season. I would love to be wrong, but I dont see him going far above what he scored last season. I think he is a 50 point player in this league, averaging about 25 goals a season at the most, which is not that terrible. The one thing we call all agree upon is that Booth gives us 110% every night, and if more players played with that desire, we would of killed our playoff drought already.
Haha. Good to see many still have the "character" idea in their heads. This is a major problem to why the Panthers have not made the post season in a long time. Success is still talent orientated. A blend is ideal, but in our position, talent is critical.

Booth is an awesome player, who will probably reproduce his numers from time to time, and have bad offensive years from time to time as well.

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08-04-2008, 11:54 AM
  #28
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Haha. Good to see many still have the "character" idea in their heads. This is a major problem to why the Panthers have not made the post season in a long time. Success is still talent orientated. A blend is ideal, but in our position, talent is critical.

Booth is an awesome player, who will probably reproduce his numers from time to time, and have bad offensive years from time to time as well.
Talent is critical regardless of whether its here or anywhere else. The problem we have seen from the team, aside from talent, is them not competing to the best of their abilities. If this team gave it its all like Booth does every shift, we would of made the playoffs already. This league is as much about commitment as it is talent.

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08-04-2008, 12:01 PM
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Talent is critical regardless of whether its here or anywhere else. The problem we have seen from the team, aside from talent, is them not competing to the best of their abilities. If this team gave it its all like Booth does every shift, we would of made the playoffs already. This league is as much about commitment as it is talent.
Discluding Olli Jokinen, i believe our highest point scoring in the last 4 or 5 seasons has been Horton, registering 62 points. Anybody who believes any of our teams has had sufficient talent to make the post season is disillusioning themselves on our Offense (And Defense of course).

It MAY be arguable that we have the underlying talent now, in terms of young players developing, but it is frankly absurd to say if the majority of players shared the ability of Booth's work ethic, we'd have been a playoff team.

This league is about both characteristics if you wish to win or be a top team. The league is more about talent if your aim is just to be competitve, which at the moment is our goal. To compete, to make the dance. I can barely think of anybody who possessed the amout of ability to shape our season significantly whose work ethic was bad. Jokinen is arguable, Luongo is not. Who else? Horton has the talent, but again thats arguable. He is a 23 yr old who needs time to develop.

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08-04-2008, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation View Post
Discluding Olli Jokinen, i believe our highest point scoring in the last 4 or 5 seasons has been Horton, registering 62 points. Anybody who believes any of our teams has had sufficient talent to make the post season is disillusioning themselves on our Offense (And Defense of course).

It MAY be arguable that we have the underlying talent now, in terms of young players developing, but it is frankly absurd to say if the majority of players shared the ability of Booth's work ethic, we'd have been a playoff team.

This league is about both characteristics if you wish to win or be a top team. The league is more about talent if your aim is just to be competitve, which at the moment is our goal. To compete, to make the dance. I can barely think of anybody who possessed the amout of ability to shape our season significantly whose work ethic was bad. Jokinen is arguable, Luongo is not. Who else? Horton has the talent, but again thats arguable. He is a 23 yr old who needs time to develop.
I definitely agree with what you say, as both charecteristics are important to succeed. I think this past years team, and more so the season before last, was more than capable of making the playoffs.

One thing aside from what we have said is that teams need to be lucky as well, which is something we havent had for a loooong time now. One such "luck" factor, or lack there of, is the amount of injuries we have had over the past few seasons. I think that, instead of skill or character, was the reason why we missed the playoffs the last two seasons. In order for us to be successful this season and have a sniff at the playoffs, we must turn some of our "luck" around. Sure we need to have our players commit like Booth and have players like Weiss, Horton, Olesz, etc. reach their talent potential, but we also cannot afford to be near the top of man games lost again, otherwise we will be the Tavares sweepstakes winner.

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08-04-2008, 01:52 PM
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I definitely agree with what you say, as both charecteristics are important to succeed. I think this past years team, and more so the season before last, was more than capable of making the playoffs.

One thing aside from what we have said is that teams need to be lucky as well, which is something we havent had for a loooong time now. One such "luck" factor, or lack there of, is the amount of injuries we have had over the past few seasons. I think that, instead of skill or character, was the reason why we missed the playoffs the last two seasons. In order for us to be successful this season and have a sniff at the playoffs, we must turn some of our "luck" around. Sure we need to have our players commit like Booth and have players like Weiss, Horton, Olesz, etc. reach their talent potential, but we also cannot afford to be near the top of man games lost again, otherwise we will be the Tavares sweepstakes winner.
Knowing our luck, we'll finish with the second worst record and the 3rd last team will win the lottery, giving us the 3rd overall pick behind Tavares and Hedman. With the way our franchise looks right now, if we were to have a season in which we end up bottom 5 for this coming year, I think we're destined to miss the playoffs for another 4-5 years at least. There comes a point where if the current group of Olesz, Weiss, and Horton don't step up and become offensive powers for the team, that we may have to look in another direction. Horton has the pure talent. Weiss and Olesz are still question marks. I'd hate to think what would happen if Olesz and Weiss both remain as 40-50 point players max.

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08-04-2008, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by PanthersRule96 View Post
Knowing our luck, we'll finish with the second worst record and the 3rd last team will win the lottery, giving us the 3rd overall pick behind Tavares and Hedman. With the way our franchise looks right now, if we were to have a season in which we end up bottom 5 for this coming year, I think we're destined to miss the playoffs for another 4-5 years at least. There comes a point where if the current group of Olesz, Weiss, and Horton don't step up and become offensive powers for the team, that we may have to look in another direction. Horton has the pure talent. Weiss and Olesz are still question marks. I'd hate to think what would happen if Olesz and Weiss both remain as 40-50 point players max.
Ive thought the same way...we are going to have to go into a different direction if some of these "youngsters" dont perform up to their abilities. Speaking in regards to Weiss and Olesz, I think AT MOST, they are around 70 point players in this league. More so Weiss than Olesz for that matter. They NEED to be those players this year, otherwise we arent going to be near the playoffs again.

IF Bouw is traded for a young top six forward, I wont think its a total lose if we get one of the top two picks next summer. Hedman would be a great pickup for the teams defense, mind it if we can keep Ballard. This team is being built from the goal out. Our goaltending is set for a while with Tvo/Andy and Markstrom in the wings. Our defense is good with what we have now, and with the additions of Ellerby, and possibly Caruso and Lapointe. Hedman would only increase our defensive core. On offense, we have Frolik, Matty, Repik, and others coming up in the next few years. Tavares would improve that as well. So getting one of the top two picks next summer will only improve our franchise. And with a "massive" return for Bouwmeester hopefully, this season might have to go down the drains for us to get significantly better.

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08-04-2008, 03:14 PM
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Ive thought the same way...we are going to have to go into a different direction if some of these "youngsters" dont perform up to their abilities. Speaking in regards to Weiss and Olesz, I think AT MOST, they are around 70 point players in this league. More so Weiss than Olesz for that matter. They NEED to be those players this year, otherwise we arent going to be near the playoffs again.

IF Bouw is traded for a young top six forward, I wont think its a total lose if we get one of the top two picks next summer. Hedman would be a great pickup for the teams defense, mind it if we can keep Ballard. This team is being built from the goal out. Our goaltending is set for a while with Tvo/Andy and Markstrom in the wings. Our defense is good with what we have now, and with the additions of Ellerby, and possibly Caruso and Lapointe. Hedman would only increase our defensive core. On offense, we have Frolik, Matty, Repik, and others coming up in the next few years. Tavares would improve that as well. So getting one of the top two picks next summer will only improve our franchise. And with a "massive" return for Bouwmeester hopefully, this season might have to go down the drains for us to get significantly better.
This is the problem though. It almost seems that in order to give this franchise any hope at all, we need to absolutely bomb and pick up a future superstar in Tavares or Hedman. Anything less will just continue our mediocrity. All of our players seem to be good "support" players, as in they could be great when relied on for secondary scoring or strong role play, but only Horton has the ability to be a go-to-guy on offense for the most part, which is what I'm nervous about. We need a star player on offense. Even on the teams that run an offense-by-commitee, they have several elite talented players. I can't think of a team in the NHL right now that has an offense that looks significantly worse than us save for the Islanders or Leafs. We do have good defense and goaltending, but we need a scorer on offense to emerge and dominate.

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08-04-2008, 03:27 PM
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This is the problem though. It almost seems that in order to give this franchise any hope at all, we need to absolutely bomb and pick up a future superstar in Tavares or Hedman. Anything less will just continue our mediocrity. All of our players seem to be good "support" players, as in they could be great when relied on for secondary scoring or strong role play, but only Horton has the ability to be a go-to-guy on offense for the most part, which is what I'm nervous about. We need a star player on offense. Even on the teams that run an offense-by-commitee, they have several elite talented players. I can't think of a team in the NHL right now that has an offense that looks significantly worse than us save for the Islanders or Leafs. We do have good defense and goaltending, but we need a scorer on offense to emerge and dominate.
We'd best hope that Matthias and Frolik turn out to be those scorers, or Horton finally blooms into it - because the tactic of bombing and picking up "future superstars" in the draft hasn't worked for us...since Jay Bouwmeester and Nathan Horton were both acquired in just that fashion.

Face it, a lack of depth and lack of a defined developmental infrastructure has been a major retard on the Panthers' prospect development. Tanking won't fix anything - though there's an infrastructure there now - as the team will lose its depth to free agency if they follow that path.

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08-04-2008, 03:46 PM
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This is the problem though. It almost seems that in order to give this franchise any hope at all, we need to absolutely bomb and pick up a future superstar in Tavares or Hedman. Anything less will just continue our mediocrity. All of our players seem to be good "support" players, as in they could be great when relied on for secondary scoring or strong role play, but only Horton has the ability to be a go-to-guy on offense for the most part, which is what I'm nervous about. We need a star player on offense. Even on the teams that run an offense-by-commitee, they have several elite talented players. I can't think of a team in the NHL right now that has an offense that looks significantly worse than us save for the Islanders or Leafs. We do have good defense and goaltending, but we need a scorer on offense to emerge and dominate.
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Originally Posted by Race against NINE View Post
We'd best hope that Matthias and Frolik turn out to be those scorers, or Horton finally blooms into it - because the tactic of bombing and picking up "future superstars" in the draft hasn't worked for us...since Jay Bouwmeester and Nathan Horton were both acquired in just that fashion.

Face it, a lack of depth and lack of a defined developmental infrastructure has been a major retard on the Panthers' prospect development. Tanking won't fix anything - though there's an infrastructure there now - as the team will lose its depth to free agency if they follow that path.
We cant dwell on what we did right or wrong in the past, so we can only look at the present and future. A season in the tanks might be the best option for this team. I want the playoffs as much as any other Panther fan, but the combo of the return of a Bouwmeester trade and a Tavares or Hedman would greatly improve this team in the long run. We are always just bad enough to miss the playoffs, but lately, we havent been bad enough to get one of the top picks. This team has options at forward, but they need to be put on the right direction. This league is starting to become a young league, meaning the 18-19-20 year olds are really starting to contribute immediately.

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08-05-2008, 08:57 AM
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This is the problem though. It almost seems that in order to give this franchise any hope at all, we need to absolutely bomb and pick up a future superstar in Tavares or Hedman. Anything less will just continue our mediocrity. All of our players seem to be good "support" players, as in they could be great when relied on for secondary scoring or strong role play, but only Horton has the ability to be a go-to-guy on offense for the most part, which is what I'm nervous about. We need a star player on offense. Even on the teams that run an offense-by-commitee, they have several elite talented players. I can't think of a team in the NHL right now that has an offense that looks significantly worse than us save for the Islanders or Leafs. We do have good defense and goaltending, but we need a scorer on offense to emerge and dominate.
This is a fairly minor point, but the 09 draft is stacked behind Tavares and Hedman. MSP, Schenn, Duchene all look awesome, along with possible risers such as Raaja, Lander, Panik and other swedes along with american risers and other Canadians. Picking #3 would mean an awesome player. Tavares/Hedman are locked in at 1/2 either yet.

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08-05-2008, 07:30 PM
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This is a fairly minor point, but the 09 draft is stacked behind Tavares and Hedman. MSP, Schenn, Duchene all look awesome, along with possible risers such as Raaja, Lander, Panik and other swedes along with american risers and other Canadians. Picking #3 would mean an awesome player. Tavares/Hedman are locked in at 1/2 either yet.
I know, but the thing is I think it would take a monumental prospect to turn this franchise around quickly if we got to the point where Weiss, Olesz, and co. definitively proved that they weren't capable of being leading/carrying players.

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08-05-2008, 11:47 PM
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I know, but the thing is I think it would take a monumental prospect to turn this franchise around quickly if we got to the point where Weiss, Olesz, and co. definitively proved that they weren't capable of being leading/carrying players.
It would pretty much take Tavares, who is a notch below Crosby and AO, but better than Stamkos.

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08-06-2008, 06:06 AM
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It would pretty much take Tavares, who is a notch below Crosby and AO, but better than Stamkos.
Idk if I buy into the whole "Tavares is better than Stamkos" theory. I think I'd rather have Stamkos on my team until we see how Tavares transfers over to the pro game. Stamkos has lightning (no pun intended) speed whereas Tavares's skating is average. In the new NHL, I'd rather have a guy with tremendous skating skills because he's got unlimited upside. If Tavares doesn't have great top notch speed, it makes it all that much harder for him to make it up to the top tier of Crosby's, OV's, etc....

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08-06-2008, 12:50 PM
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Idk if I buy into the whole "Tavares is better than Stamkos" theory. I think I'd rather have Stamkos on my team until we see how Tavares transfers over to the pro game. Stamkos has lightning (no pun intended) speed whereas Tavares's skating is average. In the new NHL, I'd rather have a guy with tremendous skating skills because he's got unlimited upside. If Tavares doesn't have great top notch speed, it makes it all that much harder for him to make it up to the top tier of Crosby's, OV's, etc....
I don't know if i buy into the Stamkos hype. I wouldn't be suprised if there turned out to be better Offensive players from the 08 draft.

Tavares is still a better prospect at this stage of his career than Stamkos was. However, if Stamkps fails to improve this year on his numbers, i'd be worried. I personally prefer prospects who are usually on an upward development curve (Frolik an exception during draft year).

Tavares is probably a Heatley type player, but apparently he is workin hard on his skating.

You don't need to pick #1 or #2 to get an imeddiate impact player (Im talking 1-2 years after the draft, it is worth noting, Crosby, Kane couldn't make bad teams playoff teams in year 1). MSP, Schenn, Duchene are all looking awesome Offensive prospects, and i'd guess MSP and Schenn could be ready for the NHL next year. Rajala is a completely different case. Panik/Kuchin are interesting as well. Im not too well informed on many American forwards discluding Shroeder/Morin and don't know any possible Canadian risers yet though, as i've concentrated more on Euro prospects.

Weiss and Olesz will not be able to carry this team. They are great secondary players. The guy who we have to concentrate on is Horton, who does possess the ability to be an elite Forward.

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