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Old
08-01-2008, 04:11 PM
  #76
Krazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quat View Post
I want to point out that saying McCabe is signed for 4.15 million until he is 35 is patently incorrect, as his cap hit is significantly higher, coming in at just under 6 (don't have the exact figure).

I just don't understand people who intentionally mis-represent players salaries to bolster their opinions. It works entirely against your argument by making you seem suspicious.
How so????? As of September 15 McCabe will be earning 4.15 million for the next 3 years. Look it up. He has a one time 2 million payment that the leafs must pay by september 15. After that his contract is 4.15 for the next 3 years. If a team picks him up in September, they owe him 12.45 over the next 3 years, not 17.25. That is fact.

And it is also a huge advantage for teams that cant spend to the cap. If you are a small market team that doesnt spend to the cap, then who cares whether your player is eating up 1.5 million in cap space. Actually it makes you look better. For example if LA were to take McCabe, to get to the cap floor, they would only be spending 38.5 million instead of 40 million. For teams without a lot of money, that is important. For teams like the leafs and the rangers, the cap hit is what counts, for the rest of the world its the actual money you pay.

What is more important, how much you actually have to pay, or how much the team before you paid?

Ie if player A signs a contract for

2,2,8,8 he has a cap hit of 5 million/year.

and you Trade for him after the 2nd year you still owe him 16 million over 2 years which is 8 million/year

If Playver B signs the contract for
8,8,2,2. The cap hit is still 5 million/ year but if you trade for him after the second year you only owe him 4 million.
Who would you rather have?????


Last edited by Krazy: 08-01-2008 at 04:29 PM.
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Old
08-01-2008, 04:29 PM
  #77
LeftCoast
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
How so????? As of September 15 McCabe will be earning 4.15 million for the next 3 years. Look it up. He has a one time 2 million payment that the leafs must pay by september 15. After that his contract is 4.15 for the next 3 years. If a team picks him up in September, they owe him 13.45 over the next 3 years, not 17.25. That is fact.

And it is also a huge advantage for teams that cant spend to the cap. If you are a small market team that doesnt spend to the cap, then who cares whether your player is eating up 1.5 million in cap space. Actually it makes you look better. For example if LA were to take McCabe, to get to the cap floor, they would only be spending 38.5 million instead of 40 million. For teams without a lot of money, that is important. For teams like the leafs and the rangers, the cap hit is what counts, for the rest of the world its the actual money you pay.

What is more important, how much you actually have to pay, or how much the team before you paid?

Ie if player A signs a contract for

2,2,8,8 he has a cap hit of 5 million/year.

and you Trade for him after the 2nd year you still owe him 16 million over 2 years which is 8 million/year

If Playver B signs the contract for
8,8,2,2. The cap hit is still 5 million/ year but if you trade for him after the second year you only owe him 4 million.
Who would you rather have?????
McCabe's Salary Cap hit is:

2006/07: $7.150 M
2007/08: $7.150 M
2008:09: $6.150 M
2009/10: $4.150 M
2010/11: $4.150 M
==============
Total: $28.75 M
Over 5 years, his cap hit is $5.75M

(source: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...OR&season=0809 )

The cap hit is determined over the life of the contract, not over his tenure with any specific team. When you trade a player, you also trade his full cap hit, not just the pro-rated portion. If McCabe were traded today, the team acquiring him would owe him $14.45M over 3 years ($4.82M per year average) in salary, but the full $5.75M would count against their salary cap.


While a team that is struggling to hit the salary floor might be intersted in acquiring McCabe, because he has a higher cap hit than his actual salary cost, McCabe has a No Movement Clause in his contract; it is very unlikely that he would waive this to go to a team that is looking up at the salary floor.

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Old
08-01-2008, 04:42 PM
  #78
Krazy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
McCabe's Salary Cap hit is:

2006/07: $7.150 M
2007/08: $7.150 M
2008:09: $6.150 M
2009/10: $4.150 M
2010/11: $4.150 M
==============
Total: $28.75 M
Over 5 years, his cap hit is $5.75M

(source: http://www.nhlnumbers.com/overview.p...OR&season=0809 )

The cap hit is determined over the life of the contract, not over his tenure with any specific team. When you trade a player, you also trade his full cap hit, not just the pro-rated portion. If McCabe were traded today, the team acquiring him would owe him $14.45M over 3 years ($4.82M per year average) in salary, but the full $5.75M would count against their salary cap.


While a team that is struggling to hit the salary floor might be intersted in acquiring McCabe, because he has a higher cap hit than his actual salary cost, McCabe has a No Movement Clause in his contract; it is very unlikely that he would waive this to go to a team that is looking up at the salary floor.
I completely understand that McCabe carries a cap hit of 5.75. But once again at this point a team will only have to pay 4.15/year.


20 of the 30 teams have 2 million in extra cap space. 15 of those 2 teams have at least 6 million in space. To these teams the cap hit doesnt matter as much. I am sorry it wont. Of those teams, Buffalo, Long and long island are close to McCabes current home. His wife wants to live somewhere hot, so teams like tampa, etc are all options. Bottom line is for the vast Majority of teams Cap hit is much less important than salary the have to pay. Sports are businesses. Owners want to make money. Cap space is free, salaries arent. Look at SJ. They took on Malhakovs cap space of 3.5 million dollars.

I dont know how else to explain it.......

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Old
08-01-2008, 06:50 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Krazy View Post
I completely understand that McCabe carries a cap hit of 5.75. But once again at this point a team will only have to pay 4.15/year.


20 of the 30 teams have 2 million in extra cap space. 15 of those 2 teams have at least 6 million in space. To these teams the cap hit doesnt matter as much. I am sorry it wont. Of those teams, Buffalo, Long and long island are close to McCabes current home. His wife wants to live somewhere hot, so teams like tampa, etc are all options. Bottom line is for the vast Majority of teams Cap hit is much less important than salary the have to pay. Sports are businesses. Owners want to make money. Cap space is free, salaries arent. Look at SJ. They took on Malhakovs cap space of 3.5 million dollars.

I dont know how else to explain it.......
Teams that would go after McCabe aren't worrying about what they have to pay him. All they are worrying about is how much of their cap he consumes.

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Old
08-01-2008, 06:57 PM
  #80
Krazy
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Originally Posted by Brassballers View Post
Teams that would go after McCabe aren't worrying about what they have to pay him. All they are worrying about is how much of their cap he consumes.

Why would teams that are no where near the cap care whether he consumes 5.75 million dollars when they only have to pay him 4.15. Regardless even if you want to make the extremely questionable argument that having to pay someone less money does NOT make them more valuable then still

McCabe has had similar to better career than Timonen, Campbell, Boyle, Souray, Jovanovski and redden. They all make more money and have a higher cap hit for longer into there careers then McCabe. Once again if these players are worth assets and teams are willing to trade for them, why not McCabe?


Last edited by Krazy: 08-01-2008 at 07:45 PM.
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Old
08-01-2008, 07:09 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by westcoast-rumourmill View Post
Bryan McCabe / Nik Antropov / Jiri Tlusty

for

Sammy Salo / Taylor Pyatt / Jeff Cowan / Matt Pettinger & 5th rounder



I just really see no need for any of those Canucks to be here for the 08/09 season. I think this would be a trade the leafs would make.

criticize away!!!!
Vancouver can keep all that garbage

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Old
08-01-2008, 10:18 PM
  #82
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Why would Vancouver do this? Their bread and butter is their defense, and they'd be making that a whole lot worse, while not getting much offense in return. If you put Kaberle in, and take McCabe out, with a bit of fixing you have a deal.

Kaberle, Antropov, and Tlusty for Salo, Pyatt, Cowan, and a 1st. I'd go with that for either team. Tlusty's a legit prospect. Antropov's kind of a butt-plug out there, but he's a decent 2nd liner, so I can see that. Kaberle's the key cog.

Salo's a step down from Kaberle, but not huge. Tlusty is equal to a mid-round first rounder at this point, I'd say. Antropov's better than Pyatt, but not by much. With a playmaker of any kind, Pyatt should be good for 20+/season. Then you get some toughness and grit on the 4th line with Cowan.

I'd say it works out like this:
Kaberle>Salo
Tlusty<1st rounder
Antropov>Pyatt
+ Cowan

Vancouver maybe wins in this trade a bit, so another prospect could be thrown in from their side. A guy like Patrick Coulombe, Rick Rypien, or Jannick Hansen.

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Old
08-01-2008, 10:36 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Why would Vancouver do this? Their bread and butter is their defense, and they'd be making that a whole lot worse, while not getting much offense in return. If you put Kaberle in, and take McCabe out, with a bit of fixing you have a deal.

Kaberle, Antropov, and Tlusty for Salo, Pyatt, Cowan, and a 1st. I'd go with that for either team. Tlusty's a legit prospect. Antropov's kind of a butt-plug out there, but he's a decent 2nd liner, so I can see that. Kaberle's the key cog.

Salo's a step down from Kaberle, but not huge. Tlusty is equal to a mid-round first rounder at this point, I'd say. Antropov's better than Pyatt, but not by much. With a playmaker of any kind, Pyatt should be good for 20+/season. Then you get some toughness and grit on the 4th line with Cowan.

I'd say it works out like this:
Kaberle>Salo
Tlusty<1st rounder
Antropov>Pyatt
+ Cowan

Vancouver maybe wins in this trade a bit, so another prospect could be thrown in from their side. A guy like Patrick Coulombe, Rick Rypien, or Jannick Hansen.

Really?

This post sums up this whole thread

Garbage.

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08-02-2008, 08:17 AM
  #84
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I'm an habs fan, i hate the leafs.

And i still see no reason why the leafs would do that.

I see plenty of reasons for the Canucks however. Antropov and Tlusty might not be offensive superstars but Antropov is a very potent big centerman and Tlusty is a young promising player imo.

On the other hand, i see a bunch of players that every team in the league have an aboundance of (Pyatt (not bad but still...) and especially Cowan, Pettinger and a 5th...). That would just be a waste of roster spots for a team looking to rebuild like the Leafs at this point.


At that point, i'd pick the Leafs players.

Then you comes up with McCabe vs Salo. I like Salo, really. But unless the Canucks are sure they can get Sundin, why would they not want that upgrade? For a team that had injuries to pretty much every single one of their defensemen, they get an offensive defenseman for one of their 234325 defensive defenseman (who's actually injury prone to boot).

For an additionnal cap hit of 2.25M$? That's nothing for a team that have 10M$ for Sundin right now. Especially with only 2 years remaining on his contract.

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Old
08-02-2008, 06:00 PM
  #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoast-rumourmill View Post
Bryan McCabe / Nik Antropov / Jiri Tlusty

for

Sammy Salo / Taylor Pyatt / Jeff Cowan / Matt Pettinger & 5th rounder



I just really see no need for any of those Canucks to be here for the 08/09 season. I think this would be a trade the leafs would make.

criticize away!!!!
Even though this is one of the more reasonable trade offers I've seen proposed involving the Leafs, I wouldnt do it if I was Vancouver. You can't give Salo and replace him with McCabe.

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Old
08-02-2008, 08:37 PM
  #86
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Even though this is one of the more reasonable trade offers I've seen proposed involving the Leafs, I wouldnt do it if I was Vancouver. You can't give Salo and replace him with McCabe.
But you can give Pettinger, Cowan and Pyatt and receive Tlusty and Antropov?

Lopsided in favor of the Canucks

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08-02-2008, 11:32 PM
  #87
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Cliff laughs and hangs up the phone.
You forgot:
Cliff turns to Peddie and says should we do this, Peddie says it is an amazing deal, and Cliff accidently hangs up the Phone.

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Old
08-03-2008, 06:50 PM
  #88
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We don't need Jiri Tplussy.

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Old
08-03-2008, 10:26 PM
  #89
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Toronto is getting ***** there.

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Old
08-04-2008, 03:20 PM
  #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Why would Vancouver do this? Their bread and butter is their defense, and they'd be making that a whole lot worse, while not getting much offense in return. If you put Kaberle in, and take McCabe out, with a bit of fixing you have a deal.

Kaberle, Antropov, and Tlusty for Salo, Pyatt, Cowan, and a 1st. I'd go with that for either team. Tlusty's a legit prospect. Antropov's kind of a butt-plug out there, but he's a decent 2nd liner, so I can see that. Kaberle's the key cog.

Salo's a step down from Kaberle, but not huge. Tlusty is equal to a mid-round first rounder at this point, I'd say. Antropov's better than Pyatt, but not by much. With a playmaker of any kind, Pyatt should be good for 20+/season. Then you get some toughness and grit on the 4th line with Cowan.

I'd say it works out like this:
Kaberle>Salo
Tlusty<1st rounder
Antropov>Pyatt
+ Cowan

Vancouver maybe wins in this trade a bit, so another prospect could be thrown in from their side. A guy like Patrick Coulombe, Rick Rypien, or Jannick Hansen.
What the hell is wrong with you? Kaberle is miles and miles better than Salo, McCabe is better than him as well. Tlusty is worth a 1st rounder easy. Antropov just a bit better than Pyatt? Whatever you're smoking...throw it out, its bad for you.

Vancouver gets better at every position in this proposal. Toronto loses a huge chunk of offense and gains 3rd/4th liners, none with any decent potential.

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Old
08-05-2008, 02:19 AM
  #91
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This is only true if you're talking about Tommy Salo. But we have Sami Salo. Who is way > than McCabe and his 7 million dollars.


I find it very funny when Nucks fan think McCabe sucks just because of all the media and blah

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08-05-2008, 09:52 AM
  #92
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i cant believe any Vancouver fan can be blind enough to not see that this is a joke of a deal, and an utter rip off of the leafs.

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Old
08-05-2008, 06:03 PM
  #93
Volcanologist
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i cant believe any Vancouver fan can be blind enough to not see that this is a joke of a deal, and an utter rip off of the leafs.
I can believe it, absolutely.

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Old
08-06-2008, 12:16 AM
  #94
The Big Swede
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Even though this is one of the more reasonable trade offers I've seen proposed involving the Leafs, I wouldnt do it if I was Vancouver. You can't give Salo and replace him with McCabe.
You wouldn't make this trade?

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Old
08-06-2008, 12:22 AM
  #95
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I find it very funny when Nucks fan think McCabe sucks just because of all the media and blah
You do know that us Canucks fans watched him play for our team as well as having him playing on national tv every Saturday night (when not injured). We see more than enough of Mr. McCabe to make our own judgement calls, thank you very much.

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08-06-2008, 12:29 AM
  #96
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You do know that us Canucks fans watched him play for our team as well as having him playing on national tv every Saturday night (when not injured). We see more than enough of Mr. McCabe to make our own judgement calls, thank you very much.
Ok Ill leave it at that because I see no point of arguing

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Old
08-06-2008, 01:02 AM
  #97
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McCabe and Salo both have no trade clause in their contract. Rule of thumb is you don't post players with NTC cause the chance of happening is slim anyways.

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Old
08-06-2008, 02:09 AM
  #98
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You wouldn't make this trade?
I wouldn't make it today. I would make it once we find out we are not getting Sundin for sure.

Basically this team only gets marginally better but we lose the cap space we had for Sundin.

The reason that some Canuck fans are not interested in making this trade is because of situation not value. The TO package is way more valuable then the VAN package but I'd only make the trade if I had a side trade to unload McCabe to re-free up the cap space we'd be losing (I believe if he agrees to be traded his NMC is then revoked permanently).

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Old
08-06-2008, 01:57 PM
  #99
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Leaf fans can eat McCabe's goo all day if they want. The fact remains that he does not have a well rounded game.

DEFENCEmen......not OFFENCEmen.

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