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Firefighter's demotion over Habs logo approved

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Old
08-07-2008, 10:49 PM
  #1
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Firefighter's demotion over Habs logo approved

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...e-d0b430ea6dc6

Marcel Vincent found out his passion for the Habs was going to cost him two grades in rank and about $12,000 in salary.

In late April, an operations chief making his rounds arrived at Station 23 and caught Vincent washing red, white, and blue paint off his hands. The chief noticed the firehall's windows were freshly painted with Habs colours. Soon after the incident, Vincent learned he would likely be demoted for having "vandalized" public property.

Thursday, the city of Montreal officially approved the disciplinary action.

The Montreal firefgighters' union is appealing the decision before an arbitrator, even though Vincent has since retired. For François Rosa, a union representative across town at Station 5, it's a matter of principle

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08-07-2008, 10:55 PM
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WeezyHabFan
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thats ridiculous when i first heard this story i couldnt beleive it. but now that its official he got demoted.. offensive!

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08-07-2008, 11:09 PM
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the guy was dumb enough to get caught.... deserves the demotion

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08-07-2008, 11:09 PM
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It's so stupid

I hope they do the same thing next year!

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08-08-2008, 12:06 AM
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Canadian_Brewtality
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there are 10000 ways to show your pride as a habs fan, but firefighters are public servants...hence being paid to do high risk jobs for the public. We pay there salaries.

God forbid myself or anyone i know has there house catch on fire and the firemen arrive even 10 seconds late with red paint on there hands and a painted firetruck.

Real professional.

The police should start drawing the Allouette on there uniforms and guns. Now thats support.

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08-08-2008, 12:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
there are 10000 ways to show your pride as a habs fan, but firefighters are public servants...hence being paid to do high risk jobs for the public. We pay there salaries.

God forbid myself or anyone i know has there house catch on fire and the firemen arrive even 10 seconds late with red paint on there hands and a painted firetruck.

Real professional.

The police should start drawing the Allouette on there uniforms and guns. Now thats support.
Yes because if there was a fire, im sure he would have said "Naw im busy painting my fire truck to go put out that fire"

The disciplinary action is a joke, some power hungry manager who wanted to make a name for himself.

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08-08-2008, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
there are 10000 ways to show your pride as a habs fan, but firefighters are public servants...hence being paid to do high risk jobs for the public. We pay there salaries.

God forbid myself or anyone i know has there house catch on fire and the firemen arrive even 10 seconds late with red paint on there hands and a painted firetruck.

Real professional.

The police should start drawing the Allouette on there uniforms and guns. Now thats support.
If I was making an argument about professionalism, I wouldn't use Montreal Police officers as an example. The red caps and jeans would only be scratching the surface....

As for the firefighters, they can put out the fire in clown outfits for all I care so long as they get the job done. When your house is burning, I think the last thing on your mind would be questioning the truck's color or how dirty the fireman's hands are.

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08-08-2008, 12:23 AM
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This absolutely proves, once and for all, and in an irrevocable manner... that his boss was a Leafs fan!!


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08-08-2008, 12:35 AM
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The Chief should have looked the other way. He's a dick.

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08-08-2008, 12:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
there are 10000 ways to show your pride as a habs fan, but firefighters are public servants...hence being paid to do high risk jobs for the public. We pay there salaries.

God forbid myself or anyone i know has there house catch on fire and the firemen arrive even 10 seconds late with red paint on there hands and a painted firetruck.

Real professional.

The police should start drawing the Allouette on there uniforms and guns. Now thats support.
You know, the firemen don't sit in their trucks with the engines running, waiting for a fire. They do things to pass time. Just because the guy was painting a logo on a window doesn't mean that he'll get to the fire scene any slower than if he was cooking a meal for instance.

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08-08-2008, 01:00 AM
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Seems right to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m00ks View Post
If I was making an argument about professionalism, I wouldn't use Montreal Police officers as an example. The red caps and jeans would only be scratching the surface....
Ziiiiing


Last edited by Beakermania*: 08-08-2008 at 10:38 AM.
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08-08-2008, 01:02 AM
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Meh. He defaced public property. If someone had painted a Habs logo on the side of a municipal building they'd be charged, and rightfully so. There are so many ways that culpability could have been avoided. I mean, did he at least ask his boss if it was okay? Obviously not. You'd be surprised how much stuff passes just if the question is asked.

The bottom line is that he's an employee at the bottom of the chain of command, and doesn't get to make decisions. He got demoted two ranks, the appeal will probably get him one of those back, and the net result will be a cut in salary for being stupid. Darwinism at work.

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08-08-2008, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by snakeye View Post
You know, the firemen don't sit in their trucks with the engines running, waiting for a fire. They do things to pass time. Just because the guy was painting a logo on a window doesn't mean that he'll get to the fire scene any slower than if he was cooking a meal for instance.

http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...e-d0b430ea6dc6
Vincent was not the only firefighter demoted yesterday; two others were demoted for having intimidated city officials in LaSalle in an effort to make the union's voice heard. Two others were fired for moonlighting while on medical leave. A third officer accused of setting fire to a hardware store was also fired. Rosa said those decisions will also be appealed.

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08-08-2008, 01:54 AM
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What a moron, next time put up a flag or a banner.

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08-08-2008, 01:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...e-d0b430ea6dc6
Vincent was not the only firefighter demoted yesterday; two others were demoted for having intimidated city officials in LaSalle in an effort to make the union's voice heard. Two others were fired for moonlighting while on medical leave. A third officer accused of setting fire to a hardware store was also fired. Rosa said those decisions will also be appealed.

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08-08-2008, 02:41 AM
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The reason it's not right is proportion. You're gonna take $12k from a man who has been a firefighter his whole life and is about to retire because of a harmless little fun? It's small minded. I expect the union to fight this into the ground. And I'd hate to be that Chief in the future. And that goes for anyone else who is in charge and hasn't grasped a sense of proportion. It can come back to bite you. Not an easy job, but you need a sense of humor.


Last edited by tinyzombies: 08-08-2008 at 03:51 AM.
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08-08-2008, 03:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
there are 10000 ways to show your pride as a habs fan, but firefighters are public servants...hence being paid to do high risk jobs for the public. We pay there salaries.

God forbid myself or anyone i know has there house catch on fire and the firemen arrive even 10 seconds late with red paint on there hands and a painted firetruck.

Real professional.

The police should start drawing the Allouette on there uniforms and guns. Now thats support.
Good lord that so stupid. You know what, firefighter sleep when they at work aswell, they cook, they eat, play volleyball, take a shower etc..etc... they dont sit in their car with the uniform to save every seconds...

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08-08-2008, 05:42 AM
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Meh. He defaced public property. If someone had painted a Habs logo on the side of a municipal building they'd be charged, and rightfully so. There are so many ways that culpability could have been avoided. I mean, did he at least ask his boss if it was okay? Obviously not. You'd be surprised how much stuff passes just if the question is asked.

The bottom line is that he's an employee at the bottom of the chain of command, and doesn't get to make decisions. He got demoted two ranks, the appeal will probably get him one of those back, and the net result will be a cut in salary for being stupid. Darwinism at work.
Was wondering that myself, and I think the awnser is pretty obvious as none of this would have happened.


To me, pretty simple : Building is not yours, so don't do anything to it unless you have the permission to do it.

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08-08-2008, 06:09 AM
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Was wondering that myself, and I think the awnser is pretty obvious as none of this would have happened.


To me, pretty simple : Building is not yours, so don't do anything to it unless you have the permission to do it.
Exactly. And when you get caught red-handed (well, red-white and blue to be exact), don't get in a shouting match with your superior. The union plays its role correctly, defending their member as they should, but behind close doors I'm sure the discourse is not the same. On appelle ça un tarla.

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08-08-2008, 07:33 AM
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The whole incident was about politics anyway, if you recall, so it's not really as simple as a respected member of the community innocently doing 'this' or 'that' to one of the city's buildings. If there wasn't any of this bitterness beforehand, I'd actually have sympathy for the firefighter. As it is, the firefighter was just trying to piss off his bosses.

It sounds more like a clash of a teacher and student at a high school, with the teacher being rigid and unyielding and the student defiant.


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08-08-2008, 07:38 AM
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The Chief should have looked the other way. He's a dick.
+1

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08-08-2008, 07:49 AM
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who cares? It doesn't hurt anybody

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08-08-2008, 08:14 AM
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who cares? It doesn't hurt anybody
Alas...the game of labour relations if a vicious one.


Its all about power here. And well, it is legitimate power of authority.

The employee used very poor judgement in this case, especially in a union environment. Like one poster said, if he would of asked his boss, there probably wouldnt of been an issue. But it wasnt discussed, therefore its considered vandalism.

But I must say, Im dissapointed. But as an HR professional, Im totally in favour of this ruling.

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08-08-2008, 09:16 AM
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Yes because if there was a fire, im sure he would have said "Naw im busy painting my fire truck to go put out that fire"

The disciplinary action is a joke, some power hungry manager who wanted to make a name for himself.

No its about maintaining a professional disposition. Fire fighters are civil servants who are being paid by the community to do a very dangerous job. They are professionals who save lives, not a bunch of guys who watch hockey while they wait for the next fire call. This had nothing to do with power and everything to do with keeping things professional.

It's great to know that this gentleman was a Habs fan, but there are better ways to show your a fan then painting the firehall with Habs logos.

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08-08-2008, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
Meh. He defaced public property. If someone had painted a Habs logo on the side of a municipal building they'd be charged, and rightfully so. There are so many ways that culpability could have been avoided. I mean, did he at least ask his boss if it was okay? Obviously not. You'd be surprised how much stuff passes just if the question is asked.

The bottom line is that he's an employee at the bottom of the chain of command, and doesn't get to make decisions. He got demoted two ranks, the appeal will probably get him one of those back, and the net result will be a cut in salary for being stupid. Darwinism at work.
Exactly.

Hey guys, think of where you work. You work there, but you don't own the building, right? Would you just go ahead and paint a Habs logo on the side of the building without asking your boss/the owner of the building? I don't think so.

I do think the penalty is harsh (I think they should just charge him for whatever it costs to remove the paint, the fine for defacing municipal property, suspend him without pay for a week or whatever and be done with it) but still, it was a stupid thing to do on his part.

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