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Should pro players play in the Olympics?

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Old
08-08-2008, 04:24 AM
  #26
Ola
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
There are no amateurs at the Olympics, so that can't happen.
Or everyone are modern types of amatures. Because nobody is getting a check per say for competing in the Olympics. Especially not the hockeyplayers who don't got individual sponsors.

You know, every guy stepping on the ice in the Olympics don't get a cent for it. Everyone could stay at home and have a vaccation instead. Insteed they opt to play for free for their country.

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08-08-2008, 04:44 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Headcoach View Post
THANK YOU MIKE D!
In one of those 4 year events, the pros were throwing stuff out of the windows at their hotel. Not really the type of Ambassadors I think we should have representing the nation and our core values. What kind of roll models are they anyways? Oh, I forgot, they not hear to be role models to our kids. It just that our kids watch them day in and day out. I could be off base on this one.

Head Coach
I'm trying to find an article that I read years ago but I'm having no luck. It was a piece concerning the athletes village and what goes on inside it. It seemed to conclude that for the majority of athletes the olympics were one big party full of "light" drugs, some drinking of course, but because of the physiques of the athletes the village was basically one big sex house. As soon as an athletes event ended then the next weeks would turn into a huge chaotic party. Even before an event some athletes would partake in the partying. The article believed only a small percentage of athletes, the ones who knew they had a real shot at their competition, abstained from these hedonistic activities.

Couple things out of a window doesn't concern me too much, but then again I've never bought fully into the idea of hockey players being forced to be role models for kids.

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08-08-2008, 04:58 AM
  #28
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Country's best.

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08-08-2008, 08:20 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
There can be no comparison between the golds won by the teams prior to allowing pros into the games. They just dont seem to have the same shine.
Oh really, the games stopped having the same shine when the pros were allowed in the mid eighties ?

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Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
Give the games back to the youths.
The Games were never for "the youths".

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08-08-2008, 08:30 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Or everyone are modern types of amatures. Because nobody is getting a check per say for competing in the Olympics. Especially not the hockeyplayers who don't got individual sponsors.

You know, every guy stepping on the ice in the Olympics don't get a cent for it. Everyone could stay at home and have a vaccation instead. Insteed they opt to play for free for their country.
Of course, but the same was true in the past and the pros were still not allowed even if they were willing to go to the games for free. As you mention though many "amateurs" were really getting paid by a sponsor which made this amateurism a big hypocrisy, as was "amateur rugby" in the nineties. I'm sure at one point Swedish hockey was in the same boat, supposedly "amateur" but in reality professional.

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08-08-2008, 11:44 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by mbeam View Post
I'm trying to find an article that I read years ago but I'm having no luck. It was a piece concerning the athletes village and what goes on inside it. It seemed to conclude that for the majority of athletes the olympics were one big party full of "light" drugs, some drinking of course, but because of the physiques of the athletes the village was basically one big sex house. As soon as an athletes event ended then the next weeks would turn into a huge chaotic party. Even before an event some athletes would partake in the partying. The article believed only a small percentage of athletes, the ones who knew they had a real shot at their competition, abstained from these hedonistic activities.
For the record, I remember that article. I think it was in SI.

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08-08-2008, 01:16 PM
  #32
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I'd like to see it go back to the old way, but I don't think it is going to happen. However as long as NHL pros are allowed to play in the
Olympics...

HOCKEY NEEDS TO BE MOVED TO THE SUMMER GAMES
I'M SICK OF THE SEASON STOPPING FOR TWO WEEKS

The season being put on hold is bull5h1t.

Basketball plays in the summer Olympics, and don't start with the hockey is a winter thing, it is played year round. There is no reason they can't do it. On top of which it would give us a nice hockey fix during the dog days..

This is one of those things I obviously feel pretty strongly about. I usually don't rant like this.

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08-08-2008, 07:17 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
Oh really, the games stopped having the same shine when the pros were allowed in the mid eighties ?


The Games were never for "the youths".
Olympic Hockey lost its shine, IMHO. The games themselves, as a whole, have been greatly improved over all. At my age, anyone under 30 IS a youth to me let alone college aged "kids". Its all semantics.

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08-08-2008, 07:50 PM
  #34
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Actually it did quite the opposite. The Olympics were the province of the congenitally rich who could afford to carry on the games as a hobby. The IOC just used some cherry picking by friendly classicists to justify the Olympics as not for pay and enabled people such as the IOC and AAU to exploit athletes.

Ask Jim Thrope and Jesse Owens about the wonders of amateurism.
The IOC later reinstated his medals. In this case its apples and oranges to the argument though. We are talking about PAID proffesionals playing the same sport in the Olympic games. As for Owens, with his family becoming destitute he made the choice to become a proffessional. The USOC even provided him with a substantial income during his families hard time, making him a paid spokesman. How that could be construed as exploitation is beyond me. The battle that Owens had was not with the IOC, ASOC or any other governing body. It was against a racist nation where he could not gain any sponsorships due to the color of his skin.

Cherry picking? The IOC does not select a nations squad. There is a registration process that is followed, particularly when its an individual rather than team sport.
If you look at a vast majority of past Olympic competitors, you would find that the average athlete comes from families of average means. In understanding the road that leads to making it to the Games, the individuals are taking on more than a hobby.

If your refering to the ancient games, yes, the well off were the few that could make the journey. Politics and Religion went hand in hand but these were the spectators, dignitaries, business men and such. For the Athletes it was about honor and enshrinement. To have ones record negated by a "cheat" was to become an outcast.

I can not conceive of how the IOC or AAU could have exploited any athlete. As a long time AAU and USA Swimming competitor they made it possible for those such as myself, of lesser means, to be able to participate. There was one point in my tiem with USa Swimming that my family was homeless. My entry fees for my initial attempt at my "A" times were waived as well as all lodging and meal costs of the meet. Costs associated with competetive swimming rival that of the cost of Hockey on a per hour basis.

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08-08-2008, 08:05 PM
  #35
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absolutely

if you eliminate pro players all that's left is college kids and beer leaguers. whats the point? why discriminate on a guy because the sport he/she excels at is more profitable?

if swimming had this big boom where athletes made loads of money to be the best at their sport, would that mean they should be ineligible too?

there is this ridiculous stigma attatched to pro players. why should they be punished and not allowed to compete in an event designed to showcase the best of the best, simply because they are truly the best? why should they be punished because people pay to see them be the best?

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08-08-2008, 08:08 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blue425 View Post
I'd like to see it go back to the old way, but I don't think it is going to happen. However as long as NHL pros are allowed to play in the
Olympics...

HOCKEY NEEDS TO BE MOVED TO THE SUMMER GAMES
I'M SICK OF THE SEASON STOPPING FOR TWO WEEKS

The season being put on hold is bull5h1t.

Basketball plays in the summer Olympics, and don't start with the hockey is a winter thing, it is played year round. There is no reason they can't do it. On top of which it would give us a nice hockey fix during the dog days..

This is one of those things I obviously feel pretty strongly about. I usually don't rant like this.


i agree about moving hockey to the summer olympics. why not? if they don't the NHL may just opt out entirely and set up another "World Cup" type of thing in the summer regardless - so keep the luster of the olympics intact for hockey

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08-08-2008, 08:20 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Rattlehead View Post
absolutely

if you eliminate pro players all that's left is college kids and beer leaguers. whats the point? why discriminate on a guy because the sport he/she excels at is more profitable?

if swimming had this big boom where athletes made loads of money to be the best at their sport, would that mean they should be ineligible too?

there is this ridiculous stigma attatched to pro players. why should they be punished and not allowed to compete in an event designed to showcase the best of the best, simply because they are truly the best? why should they be punished because people pay to see them be the best?
People have this construed notion of what the Olympics are. They are not a showcase of the best of the best. That venue is called the Stanley Cup finals. They choose to sign contracts and earn big bucks. Thats like saying why should a guy be punished for taking a wife. He should be allowed to get as much on hte side as he likes.

It is the best of the ameteurs, a means for nations and people to come together. Teams prior to the allowing of proffessional were hardly like watching adult pond hockey/beer leaguers. That is an absolute exaggeration.

. The pros dont even play full out. At least with the Jr age youngsters you watched teams and plaeyrs putting it all out there. You dont get that with the pros. Watch NCAA div I hockey and tell me it is less exciting than watching an NHL team. Every game for them is a play-off game. The pros dont turn it on till its crunch time.

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08-08-2008, 08:35 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by MikeD View Post
People have this construed notion of what the Olympics are. They are not a showcase of the best of the best. That venue is called the Stanley Cup finals. They choose to sign contracts and earn big bucks. Thats like saying why should a guy be punished for taking a wife. He should be allowed to get as much on hte side as he likes.

It is the best of the ameteurs, a means for nations and people to come together. Teams prior to the allowing of proffessional were hardly like watching adult pond hockey/beer leaguers. That is an absolute exaggeration.
It is not a showcase for the best athletic talent in the world? I would say for the majority of the events it DEFINITELY is a showcase for the best talent in the world and why should hockey be different? The olympics are where records are made and are broken. If you allow the premiere talent of 100 metre runners to showcase themselves and compete, why put these "professional" restriction on NHL players? It makes no sense to me.

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08-11-2008, 03:19 PM
  #39
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I, for one, could care less about the Olympics.

To me, the concept upon which the Olympics were founded has been modifed so far from their original parameters that it is largely an event to sell advertising.

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08-11-2008, 07:23 PM
  #40
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As has been pointed out, the whole concept of "amateur" sports, including the Olympics, is a relatively modern idea thought up by the wealthy for the sole purpose of keeping out the riff-raff. If you couldn't afford to spend your time pursuing sports and had to actually work for a living, you were not a "gentleman" and therefore, not good enough to mix with those who were "gentlemen."

In modern Olympic games, every single one of the Soviet block countries was a pro. If you're pining away for a time when the Olympics involved only "real" amateurs, you're pining away for a time that never existed. Even the original Olympic Games in ancient Greece were not amateur. I see absolutely no reason why a person should be prevented from representing his country just because he makes a living playing sports.

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08-15-2008, 05:37 PM
  #41
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Ok, lets add this into the mix...

How many current Major Leaguer Pro Baseball players are on the Baseball Olympic team?

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Last edited by Headcoach: 08-16-2008 at 02:48 PM.
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Old
08-15-2008, 08:26 PM
  #42
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But now a days, it just not so. With big contract pro players making 10 million dollars a year, they are getting all of the attention fighting for the gold and kicking everyones a** in the process.

Doesn't that just take everything out of the game? Should the Olympics just be for the amateur player and not the $10 million dollars pro player?

Don't you just feel better to see and amateur kick the ever loving sh** out of some one, then to see a pro player kick the crap out of an amateur!

Or, should we just clap our hands and say...."Way to go million dollar man, you sure showed them, didn't you!"
There are basically 4 current olympic sports where otherwise multi-million athletes (the grossly overpaid ones that you are describing) are allowed to play: ice hockey, soccer, baseball, and basketball.

Soccer has a pretty even worldwide distribution of highly paid pro athletes that the addition or subtraction of pros makes no real significant difference. MLB doesn't usually send their pros, regardless of national origin.

So out of roughly 400 olympic events across 35 sports, the debate really comes down to complaints about players in no more than 2-4 sports. And we should slam the Olympic door on thousands upon thousands of other athletes because a few overpaid NHL and NBA stars give less than their all?

I love watching the Olympics because it is the greatest gathering of international athletic competition on Earth. I want to see the best talent available that each of those varied sports has to offer. I don't want to see a bunch of 2nd- and 3rd-tier athletes perform because the best ones accepted $20k from Nike and Gatorade to fund their endeavors.

I remember the 80's before pros were allowed. I remember the stupid debates about whether guys like Scott Hamilton or Brian Boitano should perform in international shows or forgo 4 years worth of salary just to be allowed to compete in the Olympics again. I remember marvelling at the stupidity of what the gold medal represented--"Congratulations, you are the strongest/fastest/best athlete in your sport in the entire world.......except, of course, for the dozens or hundreds of athletes around the world who are all totally better than you, but actually get a check for what you do."

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08-16-2008, 12:20 AM
  #43
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Should pro players play in the Olympics?

Heck yeah. Best of the best.Do you really want to go back to the "amatuers only"(Who are actually often signing lucrative contracts with companies) and see some Canadian guys from universities play some Russian guys from universities, Instead of seeing team Canada with Crosby, Iginla,Phaneuf etc against Ovechkin, Malkin, Kovalchuk etc?

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08-16-2008, 10:03 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SJGoalie32 View Post
So out of roughly 400 olympic events across 35 sports, the debate really comes down to complaints about players in no more than 2-4 sports. And we should slam the Olympic door on thousands upon thousands of other athletes because a few overpaid NHL and NBA stars give less than their all?

I remember the 80's before pros were allowed. I remember the stupid debates about whether guys like Scott Hamilton or Brian Boitano should perform in international shows or forgo 4 years worth of salary just to be allowed to compete in the Olympics again. I remember marvelling at the stupidity of what the gold medal represented--"Congratulations, you are the strongest/fastest/best athlete in your sport in the entire world.......except, of course, for the dozens or hundreds of athletes around the world who are all totally better than you, but actually get a check for what you do."
Slamming the door on thousands of other athletes because of a few NHL or NBA players. That's the point!

When I was growing up, and you made the Olympic team, it gave you the chance to make it into the pro's. It was a spring board to get you looked at. Now as days, that just doesn't happen because the pro's have your spot on the team.

Some one wrote earlier in this thread...This is what the "world juniors" is for. Yeah, but back then, they didn't use the world juniors for that. And if I am not mistaken, there wasn't even a "World Juniors". Back then it was the Olympics.

Back then, the Olympics gave each country the opportunity to show case their athletic talent. Then if you got some where and you got a metal, then you got endorsements for your hard work. It wasn't a get endorsements first, then go for gold, back then.

Back when they OSC started think about this, it was probably because someone (country) said...The Russians are using prooooo's! So what! No we don't want this Miracle team, we just want to give the players the chance to play for their country and the gold. Heck why the pro? He can buy the gold! Their the ones with deep pockets.

Ok, so if y'all want pro's, then lets make everyone pro's. You're not allowed to play in the Olympics if you are not a pro. Don't even think about trying to stick your foot in the door if you are not a pro.

"So, you guy, ya, you!" The one with Ping pong paddle, you can't come because you don't have a pro league to play in. So stay home!

You, the high jump guy. Because you don't have a pro league for high jump....stay home! The Olympics are only for pro's!

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Last edited by Headcoach: 08-16-2008 at 10:22 AM.
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08-16-2008, 10:47 AM
  #45
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In soccer, most teams send all younger players. Not necessarily players who aren't professionals as all of the players belong to some team, however, they are all young players. For example, Italy didn't send one player born after 1985. Argentina sent two players born after 1985 (one in 84 and one in 78). Netherlands sent three players born after 1985. The United States sent three players who were born after 1985, who of which were born in 84. Brazil has two players born after 1985 (one in 84 and one in 80).

So what's the point? In soccer, they could turn this into a mini-world cup if they wanted to, but they don't. They send a few older players, but mainly all players under a certain age (23 or 24). I wouldn't see why that would be a bad idea for hockey as well. Sure send pros, but have them be possibly under 25. Not only is it interesting to see all young guys, but it also allows the NHL for example to showcase all of it's up and comers which would be quite interesting. Instead, they pretty much turn the Olympics into a bigger deal than the Cup finals. They also pretty much makes the whole World Cup idea pointless.

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08-18-2008, 03:35 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by PruBlue25 View Post
In soccer, most teams send all younger players. Not necessarily players who aren't professionals as all of the players belong to some team, however, they are all young players. For example, Italy didn't send one player born after 1985. Argentina sent two players born after 1985 (one in 84 and one in 78). Netherlands sent three players born after 1985. The United States sent three players who were born after 1985, who of which were born in 84. Brazil has two players born after 1985 (one in 84 and one in 80).

So what's the point? In soccer, they could turn this into a mini-world cup if they wanted to, but they don't. They send a few older players, but mainly all players under a certain age (23 or 24). I wouldn't see why that would be a bad idea for hockey as well. Sure send pros, but have them be possibly under 25. Not only is it interesting to see all young guys, but it also allows the NHL for example to showcase all of it's up and comers which would be quite interesting. Instead, they pretty much turn the Olympics into a bigger deal than the Cup finals. They also pretty much makes the whole World Cup idea pointless.
It is actually part of the rule/agreement the football/soccer agencies have. Each national team can have up to three "professional" players!

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