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Firefighter's demotion over Habs logo approved

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Old
08-08-2008, 08:42 AM
  #26
Bermy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Chezz View Post
Alas...the game of labour relations if a vicious one.


Its all about power here. And well, it is legitimate power of authority.

The employee used very poor judgement in this case, especially in a union environment. Like one poster said, if he would of asked his boss, there probably wouldnt of been an issue. But it wasnt discussed, therefore its considered vandalism.

But I must say, Im dissapointed. But as an HR professional, Im totally in favour of this ruling.
That's true, they probably should of at least asked first

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08-08-2008, 09:25 AM
  #27
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Since he retired does the demotion and cut in pay affect his pension? I know mine will be based on my best 5 years. Perhaps the point here is moo.

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08-08-2008, 09:35 AM
  #28
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Reality is, he should have asked before. He didn't and like someone said earlier, if it were me or you, we'd get in trouble. Reality is, I figured a suspension and fee to remove the painting would be sufficient. 12,000$ and 2 ranks is harsh. If i painted a habs logo, doubt i'd pay 12k as a fine.

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08-08-2008, 09:45 AM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Reality is, he should have asked before. He didn't and like someone said earlier, if it were me or you, we'd get in trouble. Reality is, I figured a suspension and fee to remove the painting would be sufficient. 12,000$ and 2 ranks is harsh. If i painted a habs logo, doubt i'd pay 12k as a fine.
Even though this does sound a little harsh. It could have been a lot worse for this firefighter. What he did might not sound bad, but it was definitely grounds for dismissal.

If you don't agree with me. Head out to your local paint store, pick up some red/white/blue paint and try it out at your place of employment/school.

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08-08-2008, 09:49 AM
  #30
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Originally Posted by LyricalLyricist View Post
Reality is, he should have asked before. He didn't and like someone said earlier, if it were me or you, we'd get in trouble. Reality is, I figured a suspension and fee to remove the painting would be sufficient. 12,000$ and 2 ranks is harsh. If i painted a habs logo, doubt i'd pay 12k as a fine.
And btw the 12000 isnt a fine per se...its the difference in salary between his position at the time of incedent and the demotion

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08-08-2008, 10:51 AM
  #31
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
Since he retired does the demotion and cut in pay affect his pension? I know mine will be based on my best 5 years. Perhaps the point here is moo.
moo? lol

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08-08-2008, 10:53 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
moo? lol
"Escape goat" part 2, right here.

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Old
08-08-2008, 11:27 AM
  #33
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Originally Posted by RedScull View Post
moo? lol
Yeah, a moo point, like a cow's argument. Redscull.

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08-08-2008, 11:47 AM
  #34
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This is getting stupid, that was water paint & easily cleanable with the hoses. I'm sure this was brought down from City Hall from pressure of the mayor. Montreal's firefighters are without a contract & are not allowed to strike for obvious reasons. Pressure tactics is all they have & have been expressing their displeasure with humor rathar than the idiots of the 1970's that put holes in the hoses. These guys take a lot of pride in their job.

They want wage parity with the City of Toronto's Fire Dept. & city hall won't budge. Montreal's firetrucks have been driving around vandalized for a year now, with Toronto Fire Emblems & huge City of Toronto signs on the snorkels.

This poor guy is a scapegoat. If anything this should have been a warning & maybe something small like 2 weeks suspension. Way out of hand!

Besides what happened to "The City is Hockey" There's nothing more part of the City than it's neighborhood fire houses. All the Habs logo's on the fire houses were cleaned up promptly by the guys just after the Habs playoff run ended.


Last edited by Player 61: 08-08-2008 at 11:54 AM.
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Old
08-08-2008, 11:50 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Blades 0f Steel View Post
Yeah, a moo point, like a cow's argument. Redscull.
Man. How did I miss that?


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Old
08-08-2008, 12:04 PM
  #36
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Im so sick of these firefighters putting union stickers all over their trucks and using them as labour battle props. Same with these bloody cops wearing marxist red hats as a protest, what the hell man??

Sends a very bad signal that you're more interested in union politics (more more more) than maintaining the reputations of the critically important public institutions you embody.

I blame the union bosses more than the individual cops and firemen, but the rank and file should understand what damage the bosses are doing to their public perception, and should do more to push back.

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Old
08-08-2008, 12:26 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
http://www.canada.com/montrealgazett...e-d0b430ea6dc6

Marcel Vincent found out his passion for the Habs was going to cost him two grades in rank and about $12,000 in salary.

In late April, an operations chief making his rounds arrived at Station 23 and caught Vincent washing red, white, and blue paint off his hands. The chief noticed the firehall's windows were freshly painted with Habs colours. Soon after the incident, Vincent learned he would likely be demoted for having "vandalized" public property.

Thursday, the city of Montreal officially approved the disciplinary action.

The Montreal firefgighters' union is appealing the decision before an arbitrator, even though Vincent has since retired. For François Rosa, a union representative across town at Station 5, it's a matter of principle
This is insanity, it cannot be possible how stupid people are, you're going to punish a guy who puts his life on the line for some **** wage of like 30k a year and dock his pay by 12k over a ****ing HABS paint job? COME ON!!! These guys live in these fire stations practically, give them a god damn ****ing break.

Wow, the world is a sad and pathetic little place it seems.

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08-08-2008, 12:59 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
This is insanity, it cannot be possible how stupid people are, you're going to punish a guy who puts his life on the line for some **** wage of like 30k a year and dock his pay by 12k over a ****ing HABS paint job? COME ON!!! These guys live in these fire stations practically, give them a god damn ****ing break.

Wow, the world is a sad and pathetic little place it seems.
They start at 20$/hour (Plus a nightime fire is definately overtime) and top off at like 30 bucks an hour, plus overtime.

Some of these guys must make 6 figures.

Please refer to common sense in this matter.

http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/...er/Hourly_Rate


Oh and read this and tell me how sad the world is when it comes to the "livelyhood" of metropolitan blue collared civil servants:

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/b...2008/4/10.aspx

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Old
08-08-2008, 01:06 PM
  #39
loudi94
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moo? lol

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08-08-2008, 03:05 PM
  #40
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[QUOTE=Lord Chezz;15108864]They start at 20$/hour (Plus a nightime fire is definately overtime) and top off at like 30 bucks an hour, plus overtime.

Some of these guys must make 6 figures.

[QUOTE]

$20/hour * 12 hours/day * 365 days/yr........yep easy way to make $87,600

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Old
08-08-2008, 03:34 PM
  #41
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What a waste of time and money.

They probaly had some dudes paid 55$ and hour to investigate this. And it's not like they will save 12k/year because someone will most likely take his spot.

If i was a Habs player id try to get in touch with him to offer him tickets and the opportunity for his familly to visit the lockerroom.

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Old
08-08-2008, 04:32 PM
  #42
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The reason it's not right is proportion. You're gonna take $12k from a man who has been a firefighter his whole life and is about to retire because of a harmless little fun? It's small minded. I expect the union to fight this into the ground. And I'd hate to be that Chief in the future. And that goes for anyone else who is in charge and hasn't grasped a sense of proportion. It can come back to bite you. Not an easy job, but you need a sense of humor.
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Originally Posted by neofury View Post
This is insanity, it cannot be possible how stupid people are, you're going to punish a guy who puts his life on the line for some **** wage of like 30k a year and dock his pay by 12k over a ****ing HABS paint job? COME ON!!! These guys live in these fire stations practically, give them a god damn ****ing break.

Wow, the world is a sad and pathetic little place it seems.



THIS WAS IN THE CONTEXT OF LABOUR NEGOCIATIONS.

And if I recall, the employees had painted these as negociation tactics and had tried to pressure the city into higher salary position.

Then they created a sob story to have public opinion on their side.

I'm not sure we're getting the full story here.

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Old
08-08-2008, 05:30 PM
  #43
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Good lord that so stupid. You know what, firefighter sleep when they at work aswell, they cook, they eat, play volleyball, take a shower etc..etc... they dont sit in their car with the uniform to save every seconds...
because you dont like what i have to say its stupid? They dont things to pass time, but they are still on the PAY clock. Its like some of you guys never had jobs or had to follow rules.

Dont be blinded because its habs related grafitti. They are public servants. I dont think he should have lost pay, but disciplined. If im at work in an office and my day is going by slowly, so i start painting habs logos on walls and windows instead of doing something that can be usefull i would be fired. And when the story would come out, they would say "wow, what a jackass"....not "what a hero!!" But because he is a fireman, we should neglect the fact that he is still at work.

And i know firemen, they cook and clean, play sports, but these are all things to stay loose, healthy, and active incase they have a call. Its preparation.

Anyways its useless argueing, no one will agree and i dont care that much anyways.


And someone mentioned the police because they wear hats, and jeans...it is because they are protesting, not paying tribute to Calvin Klein.

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08-08-2008, 05:54 PM
  #44
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no problems, it's a Habs logo heh ?

good thing he wasnt a Voivod fan or something, I can see the nice album cover he could have painted...

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08-08-2008, 05:56 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
And someone mentioned the police because they wear hats, and jeans...it is because they are protesting, not paying tribute to Calvin Klein.
No, but you were trying to make a ridiculous argument questioning firefighters professionalism should they show up with red paint on their hands, as if the incident would actually have an impact with the way they would perform their jobs. Whatever the reason, police officers on duty dressed like it was Sunday's picnic may actually affect their mobility should they have to deal with active suspects.

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08-08-2008, 06:25 PM
  #46
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No, but you were trying to make a ridiculous argument questioning firefighters professionalism should they show up with red paint on their hands, as if the incident would actually have an impact with the way they would perform their jobs. Whatever the reason, police officers on duty dressed like it was Sunday's picnic may actually affect their mobility should they have to deal with active suspects.
As a negotiating tactic this union punctured hoses not so long ago. That may have had an effect on their services.

I thought the city would of been politically smart to stay above this one. A CH in water paint wasn't really the battle for anyone to make their Waterloo over,imo.

Still, this particular union has shown their true colors in the past.

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08-08-2008, 08:05 PM
  #47
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He retired? Case-closed.

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Old
08-08-2008, 08:15 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
As a negotiating tactic this union punctured hoses not so long ago. That may have had an effect on their services.

I thought the city would of been politically smart to stay above this one. A CH in water paint wasn't really the battle for anyone to make their Waterloo over,imo.

Still, this particular union has shown their true colors in the past.
In my company, vandalism + insubordination = dismissal

where it gets emotionally charged is the type of expression we're talking about - giving support to a community team doesn't feel like vandalism.

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08-08-2008, 09:58 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by earl the habs fan View Post
In my company, vandalism + insubordination = dismissal

where it gets emotionally charged is the type of expression we're talking about - giving support to a community team doesn't feel like vandalism.
Vandalism was what happened last year in the "riot".

My bet is the firefighter who painted a habs logo on the fire dept with WATER PAINT and lost 2 ranks and $12,000 a year in salary got a worse sentence than any of those guys who ripped apart building/set fire to police cars and looted stores in the city last year in the riots.

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08-08-2008, 11:16 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by doug mckenzie View Post
Vandalism was what happened last year in the "riot".

My bet is the firefighter who painted a habs logo on the fire dept with WATER PAINT and lost 2 ranks and $12,000 a year in salary got a worse sentence than any of those guys who ripped apart building/set fire to police cars and looted stores in the city last year in the riots.
So they deserve it... If when i was working at IGA me and some workers would have painted habs logo in the break room with WATER PAINT! I would have lost my assistant manager rank and probably the money who comes with it or would have got fired.

Go paint with water paint the place where you work and see how your boss act.

I could also paint it in my Cegep like its not a vandalism. Because Montreal is HOCKEY!

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