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'74 draft - Connor and Risebrough, why not Larouche?`

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Old
08-10-2008, 01:32 PM
  #26
Passchendaele
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Don't you think the fact that other teams also passed on Larouche should tell you something??
14 teams passed on Mike Bossy. so?

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08-10-2008, 02:40 PM
  #27
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Good point about the Philly threat but I'm not all that convinced.

Which toughness did the Habs add? Cam Connor?

They already had Larry Robinson and The Bird was about 80 percent of the Habs toughness as Dornhofer and Schultz coudl tell youze.

Guys like Bouchard and Chartraw were big and did some adequate sweater grabbing during those old style bench clearing brawls but weren't exactly the scariest guys on earth.

The Lambert-Tremblay-Risebrough line was alright but every team had players just as tough.

The 70s dynasty will filled with non combatants, Lemaire, Pete M, Lapointe, Mondou, I don't think we really got into the arms race all that much.

I thought that GMs drafted the best player possible and then figure out what to do with them afterwards. It's hard to make a case out of those 7 other guys being much better than Larouche. In fact if the Seals had drafted Larouche rather than Rick Hampton they might've still survived to this day cuz Larouche was an instant star in Pittsburgh.

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08-10-2008, 04:40 PM
  #28
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I knew Timmins wasn't that good.....

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08-10-2008, 09:18 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Passchendaele View Post
14 teams passed on Mike Bossy. so?
Mike Bossy is a HOFer... Pierre Larouche is not. Mike Bossy was an all around great player, Larouche could score goals but was a defensive liability... Not comparable.

The point was the OP is ragging on the habs for passing up Larouche... but other teams did too.. He obviously was not the consensous #1 pick that the OP believes he should have been.

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08-11-2008, 08:28 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Mike Bossy is a HOFer... Pierre Larouche is not. Mike Bossy was an all around great player, Larouche could score goals but was a defensive liability... Not comparable.

The point was the OP is ragging on the habs for passing up Larouche... but other teams did too.. He obviously was not the consensous #1 pick that the OP believes he should have been.
Dryden's book has mention of Larouche. Larouche liked to play at home, pick up some pp points, light it up for he home crowd, but when it got tough on the road, he wasn't into it. Bowman started benching him at home, hoping that the effort would be there, allowing him to get rewarded at home. It never really worked out.

Larouche was,imo, a good bad team player.

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08-11-2008, 10:05 AM
  #31
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Center. Larouch admitted it himself in an interview. He was plucked back out of the minors by the rangers. Even the oilers (famous for reclamation projects didnt make a play for him).
He indicated that when he was married he became more mature and hence his success with the Rangers. His career however was ended by injuries. I will have to disagree about his value. He was a top 5 player in the league and was my favorite hab. The hockey news referred to him once as the second best player in the league(after Lafleur). So many times the Habs of the 70s are discussed with no mention of Larouche. In terms of skill only guy could touch him and he was so slick with the puck and had major moves and such a flair. The Habs have often had an obsession with nontalented players eg Wickenheiser instead of Coffey. Bilideau etc etc. Dryden is no rocket scientest. He talks slow so we think he is an intellectual. Bowman was a dictator.

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Originally Posted by Megaforce View Post
How much backchecking does a winger have to do anyway?

He just has to cover the point in his own zone, it's not like a centerman who has to come all the way deep into his own zone.

Bowman also ended Real Cloutier's relatively productive career in Buffalo when he charged him with insufficient backchecking.

Larouche went on to score 48 for the Rangers in 83-85 but they send him to the minors for half a season in 85-86. Something about a thumb injury but I can't figure out why he was down there for so long.

Larouche was a temporary captain of the Rangers in 1987 and retired due to chronic back injuries.

I don't there's any real evidence that he screwed up his career due to excessive partying, he was no Bryan Fogarty or Jacques Richard.


Last edited by toshiro: 08-11-2008 at 10:14 AM.
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08-11-2008, 10:14 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Larouch admitted it himself in an interview. He was plucked out of the minors by the rangers. Even the oilers (famous for reclamation projects didnt make a play for him).
He indicated that when he was married he became more mature and hence his success with the rangers. I will have to disagree about his value. He was a top 5 player in the league and was my favorite hab. The hockey news referred to him once as the second best player in the league(after Lafleur). The Habs have often had an obsession with nontalented players eg Wickenheiser instead of Coffey. Bilideau etc etc. Dryden is no rocket scientest. He talks slow so we think he is an intellectual. Bowman was a dictator.
#1, never. There's a big difference between slick 'hands' guys and great players and Larouche's biggest admirers would say he had great scoring ability, but would never rank him as a great player.

Think what you will about Dryden, but he was simply realting what happened on the team not offering opinion. Bowman played a lot of mindgames with players and as Shutt said, they hated him, every day except the day the Cup cheque arrived.

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08-12-2008, 10:51 AM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcphee View Post
#1, never. There's a big difference between slick 'hands' guys and great players and Larouche's biggest admirers would say he had great scoring ability, but would never rank him as a great player.

Think what you will about Dryden, but he was simply realting what happened on the team not offering opinion. Bowman played a lot of mindgames with players and as Shutt said, they hated him, every day except the day the Cup cheque arrived.
Well the The Hockey News and the Toronto Globe and Mail is wrong then. We can engage in revisionist thinking but Larouche won the pylon contest in a skills comptetition. That isnt just a goalscorer. I read and heard many times he was a top 5 player in the league in terms of talent. I have no flippin clue who you mean by his admirers. Here is one who claims he was a great player who if he was motivated he was magic. Kent Neilson has many revisionist detracters as well. Bowman had the talent. He did nothing in St Louis and nothing in Buffalo. Its easy to coach teams with multiple hall of famers on it. Dryden did nothing with the leafs and nothing in politics. I dont know what realting is.

LOL Bossy wasnt drafted by the Habs because he was considered a defensive liability. Bossy was no defensive player as he couldnt skate fast enough. He was a goal scorer. Pure and simple. Playing with Trottier and Gillies made it easy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beakermania View Post
Mike Bossy is a HOFer... Pierre Larouche is not. Mike Bossy was an all around great player, Larouche could score goals but was a defensive liability... Not comparable.

The point was the OP is ragging on the habs for passing up Larouche... but other teams did too.. He obviously was not the consensous #1 pick that the OP believes he should have been.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 08-12-2008 at 11:47 AM.
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08-12-2008, 11:02 AM
  #34
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
LOL Bossy wasnt drafted by the Habs because he was considered a defensive liability. Bossy was no defensive player as he couldnt skate fast enough. He was a goal scorer. Pure and simple. Playing with Trottier and Gillies made it easy.
how so?

1984-85

Bossy - 76 GP 58 G 59 A 117 PTS
Trottier - 68 GP 28 G 31 A 59 PTS
Gillies - 54 GP 15 G 17 A 32 PTS

Bossy made players around him better himself. Even Brent Sutter became a 100-point player (102) on a line with Mike Bossy. His 2nd best career total in a season is 68.

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08-12-2008, 11:14 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by toshiro View Post
Well the The Hockey News and the Toronto Globe and Mail is wrong then. We can engage in revisionist thinking but Larouche won the pylon contest in a skills comptetition. That isnt just a goalscorer. I read and heard many times he was a top 5 player in the league in terms of talent. I have no flippin clue who you mean by his admirers. here is one who claims he was a great player who if he was motivated he was magic. Kent Neilson has many revisionist detracters as well. Bowman had the talent. He did nothing in St Louis and nothing in Buffalo. Its easy to coach teams with multiple hall of famers on it. Dryden did nothing with the leafs and nothing in politics. I dont know what realting is.
So I typed realting instead of relating, good pickup. I would think that someone as learned as yourself would've picked that up.

By admirers, I mean people that think highly of Larouche. Kent Nillson [notice how I take the high road and don't ask who Nelison is] is a good comparison to Larouche. Skillwise both had all kinds of ability, great hands, dexterity vision, easily top 5 in terms of that type of talent. I don't believe that many who would rave about Larouche's talent would've rated him top 5 in terms of players though. Pollock dealt Peter M + a few kids for him, do you think Pollock would've given up Gainey ? He wasn't a top 5 or 10 player in the league though he had lights out offensive ability.

So you don't like Dryden and Bowman. Neither needs my defense, both seemed to have success follow them thru their lives. Bowman did nothing in St.Louis ? How many finals did he get to ? Of the new teams, 1 got to the final every year and it seemed that it was always his, his ragtag group of over the hill guys came out on top, though they never had a chance against the original 6.

Buffalo, granted, he took on the task of dis-mantling the Sabres old guard, dealt for a lot of picks the way his mentor would've, but he never quite got there. Seems he did ok everywhere else though.

Dryden came on board in Toronto when the team and the situation around them was in shameful disaray. I'm not talking about purely hockey reasons either. The team became respectable off ice and thru the work of [I believe] Fletcher, on ice, did the same.

I hardly think not winning a LIberal leadership race marks you as a failure. Being in the hof, having your jersey raised to the rafters, working with Ralph Nader, being elected to parliament, publishing books, geez, he'd better get busy and accomplish something.

Larouche was a great talent, very good player, but he never got to be 'the guy' a guy who a team was built around. It doesn't mean he wasn't fun to watch, it doesn't make his career irrelevant but he doesn't rank with the greats because he wasn't great.

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LOL Bossy wasnt drafted by the Habs because he was considered a defensive liability. Bossy was no defensive player as he couldnt skate fast enough. He was a goal scorer. Pure and simple. Playing with Trottier and Gillies made it easy.
Al Arbour asked Torrey who he was going to select, it came down to someone like Secord, a Boston choice named Foster, I think or Bossy. Torrey said that the kid from Mtl could score but couldn't check. Arbour said take the scorer, I'll teach him to check. He did, Bossy left the league a complete player though he didn't join it as one.


Last edited by Beakermania*: 08-12-2008 at 11:49 AM.
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08-12-2008, 01:32 PM
  #36
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We could go forever with the "why nots". Sittler could had been drafted after Lafleur in 71. Can you imagine this combo ?

serge savard and Reggie Houle were quite bad at first round selections. Only Koivu really panned out from the 90"s first round draft picks.l

More recently, guys like Iginla, Gagné, Bergeron, Marian Hossa, Briere, Frolov, Volchenkov, Richards, Carter, Parise, Getzlaf, Giroux and Lucic were all overlooked. Habs selected instead future Hall of famers like Ryan, Marcel Hossa, Ron Hainsey, Chouinard, Matt Higgins, Uruqhart, Fischer and Maxwell...l

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08-12-2008, 06:42 PM
  #37
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Sittler, Iginla, Bossy and the rest of those listed were great junior players.

But Pierre Larouche shattered all junior scoring records with an astronomical output that has only been matched once since. He was from another planet.

To have done what Larouche did and then get snubbed seven times - twice by the Habs who should have jumped at a French Quebec player - was weird. The Habs preferred a guy who couldn't even skate: Cam Connor.

I understand that talented players often get overlooked, but this kid's numbers were so blantantly incredible that there's no way you could feign surprise at the outcome, so I really don't get it at all.

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08-12-2008, 06:47 PM
  #38
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Check out Cam Connor's numbers he put up in Flin Flon and then get back to us again why he was taken so highly in the '74 draft.

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08-12-2008, 06:51 PM
  #39
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Sittler, Iginla, Bossy and the rest of those listed were great junior players.

But Pierre Larouche shattered all junior scoring records with an astronomical output that has only been matched once since. He was from another planet.

To have done what Larouche did and then get snubbed seven times - twice by the Habs who should have jumped at a French Quebec player - was weird. The Habs preferred a guy who couldn't even skate: Cam Connor.

I understand that talented players often get overlooked, but this kid's numbers were so blantantly incredible that there's no way you could feign surprise at the outcome, so I really don't get it at all.
Numbers aren't everything or Corey Locke wouldn't have been a fourth round pick. He had a huge, huge year his draft year.

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08-12-2008, 07:01 PM
  #40
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Connor's numbers were okay for that one year (the two prior years were pretty awful) but he was no Greztzky - he scored 47 but didn't m ake the top ten in point leaders.

If the Habs wanted a hard nosed Western farmboy they could have chosen anybody in that top 10 scorers list of WCHL players and would have come up with someone who would have gone on to have better careers than Connor. Danny Gare turned out to be the best of them but they pretty much all played more NHL games than Connor. I wish I heard the logic that went into choosing Cam Connor of all people.

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08-12-2008, 08:12 PM
  #41
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Connor's numbers were okay for that one year (the two prior years were pretty awful) but he was no Greztzky - he scored 47 but didn't m ake the top ten in point leaders.

If the Habs wanted a hard nosed Western farmboy they could have chosen anybody in that top 10 scorers list of WCHL players and would have come up with someone who would have gone on to have better careers than Connor. Danny Gare turned out to be the best of them but they pretty much all played more NHL games than Connor. I wish I heard the logic that went into choosing Cam Connor of all people.
It's no mystery, they wanted to get big and tough, they didn't want to be pushed around by teams like the Flyers and a few others that played that game. Connor didn't work out like Martyniuk and Robin Sadler didn't. Larouche was a great jr. but they went a different direction. There's no defense of Pollock intended, you can go to any year and find guys that should have went higher or lower. I just don't share the opinion that Larouche was a great player or any kind of difference maker. He was what he was, I still say he was as good as anyone from the arcs in, but they judged other guys as being a better fit.

How many ot goals did Larouche get in Mtl ? Connor got one, quite late at night as I remember, but again to paraphrase Dryden, it became apparent he didn't have the skills to go along with the frame.

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