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IF the Sedins become UFAs next summer...

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Old
08-10-2008, 09:24 PM
  #26
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This really should be the Sedins last shot in Vancouver to get it done, i mean hell.. they've already had just as much time as WCE really got.

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08-10-2008, 09:30 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rover View Post
I'd trade the sedins for spezza and heatley.
That's funny, because in NHL 08 I traded Sedins for Datsyuk and Zetterberg

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08-10-2008, 09:31 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by fogducker View Post
If they decide to test the FA market. Vancouver is going to trade them..

Sedins (signed long term) to Atlanta for Kovy?
Kovalev maybe, but not Kovalchuk.

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08-10-2008, 09:40 PM
  #29
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Kovalev maybe, but not Kovalchuk.
lol Kovalev for the Sedins.....

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08-10-2008, 09:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by WashJeffHockey19 View Post
Yea you make good points, and I thought about that too... to contradict myself a bit.

My point, as I'm sure you know and understood, was just that these are professionals, it's a business, and going into the UFA market, they really don't have much of a say (it's dependent on what the teams want) on if they can go to a place together. It's certainly more than likely that at least one team will be willing to go after both, but my overall point is they can't decide how the teams are willing to negotiate. This isn't directed at you, just my overall final cry, but this is business, they're grown men now, there have been plenty of players that have come into this league and I really do think it speaks a bit to their maturity level if they can't cut the cord and move on. (whether or not they do remains to be seen, but if they refuse, it seems a little gay, to speak like the teenagers).
I disagree. If they become UFAs, they will have more power than ever to determine where, and under what conditions they will play hockey. I also wholeheartedly disagree with your "maturity" and "gay" points as well.

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08-10-2008, 10:21 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Macke View Post
lol Kovalev for the Sedins.....
Montreal would make that deal in a heartbeat, no doubt.

Atlanta would hang up after "Kovalchuk".

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08-10-2008, 10:57 PM
  #32
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If they sign elsewhere imagine Vancouver's offense... or lack of offense.

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Old
08-10-2008, 11:03 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Modo View Post
Montreal would make that deal in a heartbeat, no doubt.

Atlanta would hang up after "Kovalchuk".
Yes, and Vancouver wouldn't.

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08-10-2008, 11:14 PM
  #34
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They would probably take less to play on the same team. I don't think they'll sign with different teams. If they can't find a team that could fit them both, I think they just end of signing in Vancouver again. If Vancouver doesn't want them back, they'll probably end of signing with a team that was not there first choice.

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08-10-2008, 11:16 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Their style of play is based around the two of them playing together for so long. It makes no sense for them to separate as they probably wouldn't be as effective apart from each other. Money isn't too important to them and as long as they get a fair offer, they'll stay in Vancouver.
That's the thing. I wouldn't even be interested in signing just one of them.

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08-10-2008, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by massivegoonery View Post
I disagree. If they become UFAs, they will have more power than ever to determine where, and under what conditions they will play hockey. I also wholeheartedly disagree with your "maturity" and "gay" points as well.
I like the fact that you have supported your disagreements.

Thanks

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Old
08-11-2008, 12:09 AM
  #37
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That's the thing. I wouldn't even be interested in signing just one of them.
who would be?

if you sign both & and toss in a 3rd or 4th liner with remotely decent hands and you've got a top6 line

thats pretty hard to turn down, imo

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08-11-2008, 12:15 AM
  #38
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I'm not going to bother checking, but I'd wager that the people saying the Sedins won't sign an extension and/or will be split up are the people proposing Pronger for Malkin, Khabi for Kopitar, and <spare parts> for Bouwmeester.

They aren't going anywhere. Vancouver needs them, and they love the city and are settled here. They've already stated what they're looking for on their next contracts and I wouldn't be surprised if an extension is announced by mid season.

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Old
08-11-2008, 12:41 AM
  #39
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Another interesting what if is what if the Canucks are clearly out of the playoff race come trade deadline, and the Sedin contract talks go no where.

What kind of a return would you get for the Sedins as rental players.

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08-11-2008, 01:33 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by Spawn View Post
Another interesting what if is what if the Canucks are clearly out of the playoff race come trade deadline, and the Sedin contract talks go no where.

What kind of a return would you get for the Sedins as rental players.

A sh*tload.

Adding two 80 point players to your top 6 wouldn't come cheap.

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08-11-2008, 03:28 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
The Canucks and Sedins are apparently working on contract details now so I really doubt they even reach UFA status.
And Berry came out and said they wouldn't play on separate teams...they'll sign for 5-6 years with the Canucks.

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08-11-2008, 03:59 AM
  #42
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It would be pretty widely known that if the Sedins are traded at the deadline, they'd resign in Vancouver in the offseason.

If Tkachuk (60pt player) landed a roster player and a 1st, 2nd, 3rd..
If Hossa (90pt player) landed a 1st, a former 1st rounder, and 2 roster players..

You have to think the price for the Sedins would be a 1st, 2x2nds, a great prospect and a decent prospect?

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Old
08-11-2008, 08:04 AM
  #43
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If Koivu takes a pay cut, we let go of Kovalev, the cap goes up, and we don't re-sign Tanguay, Habs could theoretically get them.

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08-11-2008, 08:14 AM
  #44
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Originally Posted by timw33 View Post
A sh*tload.

Adding two 80 point players to your top 6 wouldn't come cheap.
what does adding one 45 goal player cost?

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08-11-2008, 09:00 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by WashJeffHockey19 View Post
Yea you make good points, and I thought about that too... to contradict myself a bit.

My point, as I'm sure you know and understood, was just that these are professionals, it's a business, and going into the UFA market, they really don't have much of a say (it's dependent on what the teams want) on if they can go to a place together. It's certainly more than likely that at least one team will be willing to go after both, but my overall point is they can't decide how the teams are willing to negotiate. This isn't directed at you, just my overall final cry, but this is business, they're grown men now, there have been plenty of players that have come into this league and I really do think it speaks a bit to their maturity level if they can't cut the cord and move on. (whether or not they do remains to be seen, but if they refuse, it seems a little gay, to speak like the teenagers).
first of all, they did both say on draft day that they didn't expect to be playing on the same team... they came into the NHL draft fully expecting to start their careers on two separate teams and it didn't seem like much of a concern for them at the time... obviously - like any pair of brothers would, twins or not - they are much happier playing together on the same team.

secondly, I'm not sure how you can question them wanting to play together as being unprofessional, or suggest that they don't have a say going into the UFA market... IMO it's the opposite... they have "earned" that say to stay together now, by hitting UFA status under the CBA. The same way that Scott Neidermayer "earned" the right to be able to play with his brother in Anaheim (which he said played a huge part in deciding to sign there).

The Sedins will have earned that right as UFA players to pick and choose where they want to play, and as such they can decide if the only options they want to look at are those teams that will sign them both (likely with NTC so they can't be split up after the fact either). This is not "unprofessional" ... it's realizing the right they have earned and using that to decide where they are comfortable playing... obviously for them, having played their entire lives on the same team (from peewee, to midget to juniors, to SEL, to WC, to NHL), a key part of any negotiation moving forward will be to continue being able to do so... nothing unprofessional about it, it's a right that they have earned.

Do you suggest it'd be unprofessional for players to have a NTC, or NMC? for a player to say that because he's American, he wants to play in the States (like Drury for example)... for a player to say that because his family resides in a specific area, he only wants to explore options with teams in that area (like Recchi for example).

I don't think that it's any different with the Sedins... their priority is playing on the same team... and considering that they have earned their UFA status to have that decision for themselves, there's nothing wrong with putting a priority on playing on the same team.

Basically, I completely disagree with your entire premise, that, as you said "my overall point is they can't decide how the teams are willing to negotiate." That's exactly what UFA rights give you. Just like it's Sundin's right not to sign a contract right now and make a decision if he wants to return first... just like it's Sakic's right to say he doesn't want to play anywhere else but Colorado... or even Yzerman's right - a BC born player - that said that he would never play in Canada because of the taxes... it's the Sedins' right now as UFAs to put priority where they feel it should be. If their priority is playing on the same team, and they are willing to sacrifice extra $$ that they could earn by selling their services to the highest bidder, even if they weren't on the same team, they have certainly earned that right.

For the record, I think they will re-sign in Vancouver. I believe their agent has already gone on record saying that they'd be looking for longterm deals at $5.5mill/yr each with the canucks. They've already made it clear that they'd be willing to take less than market value to remain in Vancouver... I can't see them not continuing their careers there.

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08-11-2008, 11:54 AM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WashJeffHockey19 View Post
Yea you make good points, and I thought about that too... to contradict myself a bit.

My point, as I'm sure you know and understood, was just that these are professionals, it's a business, and going into the UFA market, they really don't have much of a say (it's dependent on what the teams want) on if they can go to a place together. It's certainly more than likely that at least one team will be willing to go after both, but my overall point is they can't decide how the teams are willing to negotiate. This isn't directed at you, just my overall final cry, but this is business, they're grown men now, there have been plenty of players that have come into this league and I really do think it speaks a bit to their maturity level if they can't cut the cord and move on. (whether or not they do remains to be seen, but if they refuse, it seems a little gay, to speak like the teenagers).
Your interpretation of free agency is so ass-backwards it's not even funny. Although I can't say I'm surprised, it seems more and more fans are somehow viewing free agency as a time when the players are obligated to sign with a team for the terms that team wants, rather than having the complete and total control over what they choose to do (the absurd reaction to Mats Sundin's situation being the most obvious example, where fans and media morons have come to the conclusion that Sundin "owes" it to teams and fans to make a decision).

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Old
08-11-2008, 12:16 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
what does adding one 45 goal player cost?
If he puts up 105 assists as well as having the gift of bilocation? Quite a bit.

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Old
08-11-2008, 12:35 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Boris the Blade View Post
If he puts up 105 assists as well as having the gift of bilocation? Quite a bit.
haha, good answer.

I dont want to rehash the old sedins (pair) vs heatley thing, but the way i see it, at the end of the day, points dont mean ****. Goals produced do, and that means multiple points on the same goal shouldnt matter when judging the effectiveness of a pair.

I see the sedins as a 45 goal pairing, with the potential to be a 55 goal pairing.

while they're still very good, they are going to end up being paid around 12M dollars, which is about 3-4 million dollars above market price for what the sedins bring to the table (45 goals).

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08-11-2008, 12:44 PM
  #49
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haha, good answer.

I dont want to rehash the old sedins (pair) vs heatley thing, but the way i see it, at the end of the day, points dont mean ****. Goals produced do, and that means multiple points on the same goal shouldnt matter when judging the effectiveness of a pair.

I see the sedins as a 45 goal pairing, with the potential to be a 55 goal pairing.

while they're still very good, they are going to end up being paid around 12M dollars, which is about 3-4 million dollars above market price for what the sedins bring to the table (45 goals).
Ummmm..what? that is some of the most flawed logic I have seen.

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Old
08-11-2008, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by danishh View Post
haha, good answer.

I dont want to rehash the old sedins (pair) vs heatley thing, but the way i see it, at the end of the day, points dont mean ****. Goals produced do, and that means multiple points on the same goal shouldnt matter when judging the effectiveness of a pair.

I see the sedins as a 45 goal pairing, with the potential to be a 55 goal pairing.

while they're still very good, they are going to end up being paid around 12M dollars, which is about 3-4 million dollars above market price for what the sedins bring to the table (45 goals).
Joe Thornton must be REALLY overpaid in your eyes...

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