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Francis or Stevens?

View Poll Results: Francis or Stevens
Ron Francis 57 82.61%
Kevin Stevens 12 17.39%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
08-12-2008, 01:30 PM
  #1
Luongofan
 
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Francis or Stevens?

This is to settle the arguement over who should be in that line with Lemieux and Jagr in the poll.

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Old
08-12-2008, 01:43 PM
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Vagrant
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Francis actually assisted on more Jagr goals than Mario. Those two belong together for sure.

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Old
08-12-2008, 02:25 PM
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tony d
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Old
08-12-2008, 03:13 PM
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CertifiedPublicGuin
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I really hope the people voting in this poll can at least remember these two.

I'll take Ronnie. Stevens seems to symbolize that really coveted type of player today. I like to think of Kyle Beach as a potential modern day Stevens, except with more of a Sean Avery attitude. While Stevens obviously had the beefier, meaner, goal-scoring game, Francis has him beat in just about every area. Better leader, better passer, better all-around playmaker.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something and this is a poll to decide who should play on a line with Jagr and Lemieux. Then it's Stevens.

I'm not really sure what this poll is about, but Francis was the better player.

Ron Francis, otherwise.

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Old
08-12-2008, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WashJeffHockey19 View Post
I really hope the people voting in this poll can at least remember these two.

I'll take Ronnie. Stevens seems to symbolize that really coveted type of player today. I like to think of Kyle Beach as a potential modern day Stevens, except with more of a Sean Avery attitude. While Stevens obviously had the beefier, meaner, goal-scoring game, Francis has him beat in just about every area. Better leader, better passer, better all-around playmaker.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something and this is a poll to decide who should play on a line with Jagr and Lemieux. Then it's Stevens.

I'm not really sure what this poll is about, but Francis was the better player.

Ron Francis, otherwise.
http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=543181

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Old
08-12-2008, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Luongofan View Post
Thanks

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Old
08-12-2008, 11:42 PM
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Ron Francis no doubt about it

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Old
08-12-2008, 11:43 PM
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Old
08-12-2008, 11:58 PM
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The Original poster is using a misleading poll title to offset the votes in Francis favor.

The question in the original poll was who would you take in their peak/Prime, healthy and all on the same line. Obviously career goes to Francis by a large margin. Peak is another matter entirely. In the early 90's, there were few power forwards better than Kevin Stevens. He was a 50+ goal scorer and a 65+ assist man in his peak, and he was good defensively as well. Relentless forechecker went into the corners and in front of the net to do the dirty work that Lemieux and Jagr did not do at that time. That was a necessary element of the success of that line.

The gap in their defensive capabilities is smaller than one would expect, and the physicality and grit lead me to pick Stevens, his playoff play was also a hand or two above Francis.

For Peak discussions....
Stevens best 2 regular season years: 54 goals, 123 points and 55 goals and 111 points.
Stevens best 2 Playoff years: 17 goals and 33 points in 24 games and 13 goals and 28 points in 21 games.
Francis best 2 Regular season years: 32 goals and 101 points and 27 goals and 119 points.
Francis best 2 Playoff years: 8 goals and 27 points in 21 games, and 6 goals and 19 points in 12 games.


Last edited by Dark Shadows: 08-13-2008 at 12:04 AM.
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Old
08-13-2008, 11:33 AM
  #10
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Yeah, I agree with Thornton-19. For a one-off peak year vote, which is how this got started, I go with Stevens. The guy was a monster playing with Mario in the early 90's. And while Francis had an amazing career, I don't remember anyone ever considering him a monster.

Plus, going back to the original poll, I think Stevens compliments Mario and Jagr better than Francis does.

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Old
08-13-2008, 12:48 PM
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Ronnie is the better player and everything, but Stevens is much better for that line.

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Old
08-13-2008, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thornton_19 View Post
The Original poster is using a misleading poll title to offset the votes in Francis favor.

The question in the original poll was who would you take in their peak/Prime, healthy and all on the same line. Obviously career goes to Francis by a large margin. Peak is another matter entirely. In the early 90's, there were few power forwards better than Kevin Stevens. He was a 50+ goal scorer and a 65+ assist man in his peak, and he was good defensively as well. Relentless forechecker went into the corners and in front of the net to do the dirty work that Lemieux and Jagr did not do at that time. That was a necessary element of the success of that line.

The gap in their defensive capabilities is smaller than one would expect, and the physicality and grit lead me to pick Stevens, his playoff play was also a hand or two above Francis.

For Peak discussions....
Stevens best 2 regular season years: 54 goals, 123 points and 55 goals and 111 points.
Stevens best 2 Playoff years: 17 goals and 33 points in 24 games and 13 goals and 28 points in 21 games.
Francis best 2 Regular season years: 32 goals and 101 points and 27 goals and 119 points.
Francis best 2 Playoff years: 8 goals and 27 points in 21 games, and 6 goals and 19 points in 12 games.
Why would I try to make Francis win? I voted for Stevens and in the poll they were arguing that Francis should be on Mario Lemieux's line because I let a second centre (Messier) for Gretzky's line and I was in favor of Stevens

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Old
08-13-2008, 01:10 PM
  #13
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Francis and it's not even close! 4th all-time in scoring, 2nd all-time in assists and you're comparing him to Kevin Stevens?

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08-13-2008, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Luongofan View Post
Why would I try to make Francis win? I voted for Stevens and in the poll they were arguing that Francis should be on Mario Lemieux's line because I let a second centre (Messier) for Gretzky's line and I was in favor of Stevens
The poll is misleading. It should read "Who would you take in their peak".

Without specifying peak or career, many vote for Francis based on not knowing you meant peak because careerwise, Francis buries him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilsNBlueJays640 View Post
Francis and it's not even close! 4th all-time in scoring, 2nd all-time in assists and you're comparing him to Kevin Stevens?
I rest my case...........

Also, Messier was not only a center. For most of his early Edmonton years before Gretzky left, he played LW for Gretzky(2 years) and Anderson(3 years).

Out of Messier's 5 all star team selections, 3 were for the Left winger position in the early 80's

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Old
08-13-2008, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Thornton_19 View Post
I rest my case...........
I agree. I'll give it too you.

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Old
08-13-2008, 01:36 PM
  #16
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Stevens should have been on that line and Francis on the 2nd line to have another solid centre.

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08-13-2008, 01:48 PM
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CM Lundqvist
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This poll is misleading because Lemieux and Jagr didn't play together regularly until 96.

Jagr was always with Francis until Stevens was traded for Robitaille. Many people don't remember the 100-point line of 92-93 which was Lemieux-Stevens-Tocchet. Before that, Mario played with Mark Recchi, who was traded for Rick Tocchet.

And when Mario went down in 94 and didn't come back until 96, Francis and Jagr were the team's top duo.

Then the Rangers made the biggest mistake in the history of their franchise by trading Zubov and Nedved for Robitaille and Samuelsson in 95, and Nedved helped fill out Pittsburgh's top 6 by playing with Francis and Sandstrom. Lemieux and Jagr played with Miller, who was another player who did the dirty work for them.

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Old
08-13-2008, 02:00 PM
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Dark Shadows
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
This poll is misleading because Lemieux and Jagr didn't play together regularly until 96.

Jagr was always with Francis until Stevens was traded for Robitaille. Many people don't remember the 100-point line of 92-93 which was Lemieux-Stevens-Tocchet. Before that, Mario played with Mark Recchi, who was traded for Rick Tocchet.

And when Mario went down in 94 and didn't come back until 96, Francis and Jagr were the team's top duo.

Then the Rangers made the biggest mistake in the history of their franchise by trading Zubov and Nedved for Robitaille and Samuelsson in 95, and Nedved helped fill out Pittsburgh's top 6 by playing with Francis and Sandstrom. Lemieux and Jagr played with Miller, who was another player who did the dirty work for them.
Its not about who played with who historically. Its about who would be better with who.

Lemieux came back in 95 and played the entire season for 95-96, propelling Francis and Jagr to their best seasons ever. And yes, they played almost the entire 95-96 season together as a trio. I was not sure and could not remember until I did a breakdown of how many assists each player had primary and secondary(A project I started, but never completed last year to see how many secondary assists the 90+ assist men had). They were together almost all the time that year. They split the players in 96-97 to separate lines.

For the record, Stevens was a much better compliment to Lemieux than Francis.

Jagr and Francis and Stevens all played together for the entire 93-94 season, but none broke 100 points. They also played the lockout season together, but Stevens was replaced with Robitaille after he went down with injuries.

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Old
08-13-2008, 02:59 PM
  #19
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Hands down...Francis, heck Stevens would even be behind Joey Mullen in my book. Stevens was nothing more than a goon who took advantage of playing with one of the greatest to play the game.

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Old
08-13-2008, 03:57 PM
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Wait... are we talking coked out Stevens, or clean Stevens? I only CONSIDER Stevens if it's powdered sugar-mustache Stevens. Even then, I still think I take Francis, a much smarter, great defensive player over coked Stevens.


On a serious note, Francis supplies the Brindamour type game, while Jagr and Lemieux would free wheel. Not to mention Francis, being one of the better passers in the game to compliment two of the better players (in every aspect, apart from defense) of all time.

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Old
08-14-2008, 12:25 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Analyzer View Post
Stevens should have been on that line and Francis on the 2nd line to have another solid centre.
Weren't they?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldshot View Post
This poll is misleading because Lemieux and Jagr didn't play together regularly until 96.

Jagr was always with Francis until Stevens was traded for Robitaille. Many people don't remember the 100-point line of 92-93 which was Lemieux-Stevens-Tocchet. Before that, Mario played with Mark Recchi, who was traded for Rick Tocchet.

And when Mario went down in 94 and didn't come back until 96, Francis and Jagr were the team's top duo.

Then the Rangers made the biggest mistake in the history of their franchise by trading Zubov and Nedved for Robitaille and Samuelsson in 95, and Nedved helped fill out Pittsburgh's top 6 by playing with Francis and Sandstrom. Lemieux and Jagr played with Miller, who was another player who did the dirty work for them.
Really?:
Quote:
Originally Posted by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Stevens
Kevin Stevens (born April 15, 1965 in Brockton, Massachusetts) is a retired NHL hockey player and current NHL scout for the Pittsburgh Penguins. He is best known for being the left wing for Mario Lemieux during the Penguins' Stanley Cup Championships in 1991 and 1992 seasons. During his career, he played with the Pittsburgh Penguins, Boston Bruins, Los Angeles Kings, New York Rangers and Philadelphia Flyers.
So he was Left Wing. Lemieux was a centre. That leaves Jagr for Right Wing

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Old
08-14-2008, 01:13 PM
  #22
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Francis

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