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Find Philadelphia a #3 Defenseman

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Old
08-16-2008, 03:51 AM
  #51
Canuckle
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Jeff Carter (5M) + Kukkonen (0.875M)

for

Kim Johnsson (4.85M) + Belanger (1.750) + 1st

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Old
08-16-2008, 05:07 AM
  #52
mercury
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canuckle View Post
Jeff Carter (5M) + Kukkonen (0.875M)

for

Kim Johnsson (4.85M) + Belanger (1.750) + 1st
Come on. This is getting silly now.

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Old
08-16-2008, 10:46 AM
  #53
LEIFey
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
not really...
umm, connsidering it's my opinion, yes really. besides hartnell and knuble, who else on our top-9 can fill the role of grinder? besides, hartnell is young and well liked by the team. trading him for anything short of overpayment would be a mistake in my opinion.

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Old
08-16-2008, 10:53 AM
  #54
Peter Griffin
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The Canucks need a solid, 2nd line center first and foremost, but Joffrey Lopul would be of interest I'm sure. As would Scotty Hartnell, as he provides the grit and scoring ability that Gillis' covets. Either one in a deal for Kevin Bieksa could be doable. Something has to give in Philly IMO. They have so much depth up front and lack depth on defense that it just makes too much sense for them to make a forward for defense swap. Even if Mike Knuble is gone after next season they'll still have Gagne(if he returns), Briere, Richards, Carter, Lupul, Hartnell in their top 6, as well as other potentials in Upshall, Downie, Giroux and JVR. If Giroux and JVR are expected to crack top 6 spots within the next couple seasons something will have to happen IMO to make room.

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Old
08-16-2008, 12:05 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
The Canucks need a solid, 2nd line center first and foremost, but Joffrey Lopul would be of interest I'm sure. As would Scotty Hartnell, as he provides the grit and scoring ability that Gillis' covets. Either one in a deal for Kevin Bieksa could be doable. Something has to give in Philly IMO. They have so much depth up front and lack depth on defense that it just makes too much sense for them to make a forward for defense swap. Even if Mike Knuble is gone after next season they'll still have Gagne(if he returns), Briere, Richards, Carter, Lupul, Hartnell in their top 6, as well as other potentials in Upshall, Downie, Giroux and JVR. If Giroux and JVR are expected to crack top 6 spots within the next couple seasons something will have to happen IMO to make room.
I am not sure that is necessary. Knuble will be gone after this season, and I don't know if Upshall figures into the long-term plans (he certainly will not beat out Gagne, Hartnell, Lupul, Giroux, or JVR for top 6 winger minutes). Still, a deal for a reasonably-priced #3 defenseman for one of our wingers plus something else makes a lot of sense.

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Old
08-16-2008, 12:15 PM
  #56
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People should take guys like Carter, Giroux, JVR, Hartnell and so on out of their proposals because those guys aren't getting traded. The guys with new deals or long contracts wouldn't be traded. Guys like Knuble, Asham or other prospects should be mentioned. Personally, I don't think we need a #3 defenseman. Jones did pretty well this past season and the additions of Vaananen and Eminger will be surprisingly helpful this year.

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08-16-2008, 12:20 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEIFey View Post
umm, connsidering it's my opinion, yes really. besides hartnell and knuble, who else on our top-9 can fill the role of grinder? besides, hartnell is young and well liked by the team. trading him for anything short of overpayment would be a mistake in my opinion.
I understand that he is liked in the dressing room, but if you make over 4 million a year, he needs to get around 25-30 goals. I think he will do that, but right now he is tradable.


We will be fine people, we dont need to go buck wild here...I think if we end up trading for a big name dman or signing one we should just do it next year. That will be when Carter is a UFA anyway and same with J-Bo, plus we will know if Jones/Parent/Eminger can be as good as they should be.

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Old
08-16-2008, 02:51 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BWAVgal View Post
People should take guys like Carter, Giroux, JVR, Hartnell and so on out of their proposals because those guys aren't getting traded. The guys with new deals or long contracts wouldn't be traded.
That's not right. Carter is super super unlikely but there's no reason to believe that the other 3 wouldn't get traded if it brought back a very good young defenseman. You've got to give to get and if you want a young #3 it will cost.

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08-16-2008, 03:04 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
That's not right. Carter is super super unlikely but there's no reason to believe that the other 3 wouldn't get traded if it brought back a very good young defenseman. You've got to give to get and if you want a young #3 it will cost.
Rather have Giroux and JVR.

The people that think the Flyers desperately need to upgrade their defense are fooling themselves. By the end of the season, Timonen, Coburn, and Parent will be the Flyers top 3, and someone else will have stepped up to be a good enough 4th.

Homer should be fired if he trades any of the big forward prospects for a #3 defenseman. Hell, I wouldn't trade Carter, who could easily develop into a 40 goal scorer, for J-Bo. The NHL is going to keep pushing to make defense less important and offense more important, so give me 3 lines that can put the biscuit in the basket, and worry about the defense later.

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08-16-2008, 03:05 PM
  #60
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Bieksa is the only name that comes to mind from the Canucks, but If I were a Flyers fan, I'd much rather give up Carter+ for J-Bo. You may have to overpay to land J-Bo, but he's the best player in that deal, and it makes perfect sense for both teams.

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Old
08-16-2008, 03:26 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
The NHL is going to keep pushing to make defense less important and offense more important, so give me 3 lines that can put the biscuit in the basket, and worry about the defense later.
No they're going to continue to make offense easier, which is why it's more important to have quality defenders.

And Parent needs to make HUGE HUGE strides before he's a #3. HUGE.

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08-16-2008, 03:49 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
No they're going to continue to make offense easier, which is why it's more important to have quality defenders.

And Parent needs to make HUGE HUGE strides before he's a #3. HUGE.
You have a strange idea of how important and good a #3 defender has to be.

And I did say by the end of the season, not now.

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Old
08-16-2008, 04:02 PM
  #63
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Originally Posted by ELab2 View Post
No they're going to continue to make offense easier, which is why it's more important to have quality defenders.

And Parent needs to make HUGE HUGE strides before he's a #3. HUGE.
what? To be a number three is not need HUGE HUGE steps.

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Old
08-16-2008, 04:12 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
I understand that he is liked in the dressing room, but if you make over 4 million a year, he needs to get around 25-30 goals. I think he will do that, but right now he is tradable.


We will be fine people, we dont need to go buck wild here...I think if we end up trading for a big name dman or signing one we should just do it next year. That will be when Carter is a UFA anyway and same with J-Bo, plus we will know if Jones/Parent/Eminger can be as good as they should be.
i agree that hartnell is overpaid, but there's still another 5 years on his contract. we've seen how good he can be; he just needs to work on consistency and he'll be scoring 25-30 goals. and i should clarify that i didnt say he wasn't tradeable, i was merely saying that i would be very cautious trading him since i can see him being valuable in the future.

i'm starting to think that JBo is a bad idea. if he's looking to make big bucks, he's going to get a huge contract as soon as he hits UFA. i really don't know if the flyers can even afford to keep him after this year. i'd much rather go for a cheaper option like edler.

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Old
08-16-2008, 04:13 PM
  #65
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I am not sure how mach cap room Philly has but why not bring back D. Markov I thought he played pretty well in Detroit,
I think he would a a decent #3 D-man.
Philly won't have to give up any of their core players

I read somewhere that Markov was going to LA but they wanted him to have a physical before they offer him a contract

I didn't hear anything elase after that so I don't know if he is injured

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Old
08-16-2008, 04:49 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by GossomeRwing View Post
I am not sure how mach cap room Philly has but why not bring back D. Markov I thought he played pretty well in Detroit,
I think he would a a decent #3 D-man.
Philly won't have to give up any of their core players

I read somewhere that Markov was going to LA but they wanted him to have a physical before they offer him a contract

I didn't hear anything elase after that so I don't know if he is injured
i liked markov a lot when he was here and was really disappointed when we shipped him out in favor of rathje/hatcher. i'd be interested in having him back, but i think he'd be looking for too much. the only way we could sign markov is if we ship out salary in another deal.

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08-16-2008, 04:53 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
I understand that he is liked in the dressing room, but if you make over 4 million a year, he needs to get around 25-30 goals. I think he will do that, but right now he is tradable.


We will be fine people, we dont need to go buck wild here...I think if we end up trading for a big name dman or signing one we should just do it next year. That will be when Carter is a UFA anyway and same with J-Bo, plus we will know if Jones/Parent/Eminger can be as good as they should be.
Jay is a UFA next year and Carter just signed a 3 year deal that doesn't even take him to UFA status.

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Old
08-16-2008, 06:02 PM
  #68
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Come on. This is getting silly now.
I thought you guys love Johnsson.

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08-16-2008, 06:33 PM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainHawk View Post
You have a strange idea of how important and good a #3 defender has to be.

And I did say by the end of the season, not now.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
what? To be a number three is not need HUGE HUGE steps.
He's got a long way to go. So far he hasn't shown himself to be as great defensively in the NHL as he has been at lower levels. That's fine and it'll take him time to get there, but he's not strong enough, aggressive enough, or bring enough offensively to be considered a #3 without being next to perfect defensively.

And as far as the importance of a #3 goes I don't think we need someone as good as Bouwmeester but I think having someone that good would be phenomenal for this team and can be gotten without hurting our offense to badly. You say the league is pushing the game in a more offensive direction and that means scoring forwards are more important, I say nonsense. If the league is making it easier to score it is more important to have defenders good enough to continue to be effective within the new rules.

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Old
08-16-2008, 07:03 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by TheKingPin View Post
what? To be a number three is not need HUGE HUGE steps.
not on the flyers anyway. jones is the #3 on the flyers right now. not sayign much there. however i think parent starts in the ahl as he has options left. he should be on the 2nd pair with eminger and let them sink or swim unless they are brutal. that wotn happen though. flyers have the market cornered on #5 and #6 dman

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Old
08-16-2008, 11:12 PM
  #71
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Originally Posted by BiLLY_ShOE1721 View Post
Jay is a UFA next year and Carter just signed a 3 year deal that doesn't even take him to UFA status.
yea....meant to say that Carter is tradable after this year when we know if Jones or Eminger can score or not, if not then trade Carter for some good stuff and sign Jbo. There is no need to trade for a pending UFA.

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08-17-2008, 04:28 AM
  #72
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No they're going to continue to make offense easier, which is why it's more important to have quality defenders.

And Parent needs to make HUGE HUGE strides before he's a #3. HUGE.
Last time I checked, Marc Edouard Vlasic made the jump as a number 3 guy and I'd like to think that Parent is much more talented than Vlasic. It's not going to take that big of a jump. Besides, what's the sense of having these youngsters if they aren't going to be given a chance? Everyone says that Parent's not ready, but has he honestly been given a fair chance to compete? No, he hasn't. I'm willing to bet that things are going to change very much this year and we'll see Parent tear it up.

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Old
08-17-2008, 05:58 AM
  #73
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Bieksa + for Gagne?

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Old
08-17-2008, 08:49 AM
  #74
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I think my hockey IQ has been lowered by reading some of these trades....

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Old
08-17-2008, 08:50 AM
  #75
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Bieksa + for Gagne?
Gagne = NTC.

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