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Kings Agree to a 4 Year, $14.4MM Contract with Stoll

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08-20-2008, 10:31 AM
  #101
KINGS17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
Actually that is not what you said. You said ....



That statement indicates that being to the Stanley Cup Finals trumps anything Lubo did last season. There are plenty of players in the league who are not very good players that have been to the Stanley Cup Finals.

But let's not let reality get in the way of your ridiculous statement.
I didn't say it trumps anything Lubo did last season. Overall, Lubo was terrible last season. He was a turnover machine. Do you deny that? The stats tell the story there.

Stoll was very good as a defensive forward and penalty killer in the Oilers' playoff run.

Why was he a minus overall? Because he was up against the other teams top forwards all the time. That's why +/- can be a deceiving stat.

But hey, you go right on calling other's posts ridiculous when it's your own bias that is the only thing ridiculous around here.

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08-20-2008, 10:49 AM
  #102
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Even considering last season, Lubomir is the clearly superior player. How can this be proved? The trade was not one for one was it? Proof positive that even with the debacle that was Marc Crawford's choices for Lubo and a long-term escalating value contract the former all-star was worth Stoll and a young defensman named Greene. Period, end of paragraph, new chapter.

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08-20-2008, 10:53 AM
  #103
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I didn't say it trumps anything Lubo did last season. Overall, Lubo was terrible last season. He was a turnover machine. Do you deny that? The stats tell the story there.
Lubo had a bad season....but he was still 17th overall in points (offense is still Lubo's forte). His +/- was bad....but both Blake and Johnson had worse +/- ratings. As did Dan Boyle who just got back twice as much in a trade than Lubo did. I will not deny he had a lot of turnovers. But he was far from being a terrible defenseman.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Stoll was very good as a defensive forward and penalty killer in the Oilers' playoff run.
I will agree with that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Why was he a minus overall? Because he was up against the other teams top forwards all the time. That's why +/- can be a deceiving stat.
Stoll was only averaging 17 minutes/game. Most teams best forwards averaged over 20 minutes. So he was not always up against the other team's top forward. Also 6 of those 17 minutes were while on special teams. So only about 11 minutes of the game were spent at even strength. Even Oilers fans agree that Stoll is horrible at even strength.

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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
But hey, you go right on calling other's posts ridiculous when it's your own bias that is the only thing ridiculous around here.
My bias towards Stoll? Yes I have always hated the guy.:

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08-20-2008, 11:05 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by guzmania View Post
Even considering last season, Lubomir is the clearly superior player. How can this be proved? The trade was not one for one was it? Proof positive that even with the debacle that was Marc Crawford's choices for Lubo and a long-term escalating value contract the former all-star was worth Stoll and a young defensman named Greene. Period, end of paragraph, new chapter.
I don't think any with disagree with you on that Guz. You are also trade age for youth and an expensive contract for 2 cheaper ones. Not too mention experience for potential.

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Old
08-20-2008, 11:27 AM
  #105
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Oiler fan here. Just hoping to put Stolls role in the cup run into perspective for you. Stoll was very good during the run, but he was far from our best player during it. He was likely behind Rolosson, Horcoff, Smyth, Pisani, Peca, Pronger, Spacek, Torres, Hemsky, and even Winchester for the few games he played.

That being said, Ive always had a huge thing for Winnie, so take that with a grain of salt.

However, if we ever had an important face off to take(offensive or defensive) Stoll was our man. He is totally clutch when the draw really matters.

Also, on the PP, just having Stoll as an option opened up Pronger for around half of his playoff goals. Teams absolutely need to respect his shot even though it misses around %50 of the time. Im just hoping that he found a stick that works for him and doesnt break every third shot.

In summation, I liked this trade alot for both teams. In the long term however, Id say Greene will be what wins the trade for the kings. Hes gonna turn into a beast.

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08-20-2008, 11:32 AM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I didn't say it trumps anything Lubo did last season. Overall, Lubo was terrible last season. He was a turnover machine. Do you deny that? The stats tell the story there.

Stoll was very good as a defensive forward and penalty killer in the Oilers' playoff run.

Why was he a minus overall? Because he was up against the other teams top forwards all the time. That's why +/- can be a deceiving stat.

But hey, you go right on calling other's posts ridiculous when it's your own bias that is the only thing ridiculous around here.
Well, I can tell you that before last season, I thought Stollie would be our future captain and heart and soul player (which is why i have the name i do). But, after what I seen last season, that thought turned directly to Horcoff. Horcoff is a bonafide #2 center I agree, but his heart and intangibles make him invaluable to the Oil. Unfortunately Stoll just couldnt regain his form (I assume due to concussion) and was playing HORRIBLE even strength hockey, and so/so on the PP (which is not difficult to replace). I do hope Stoll can regain the form he had a couple years ago and wish him all the best in LA LA Land.

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Old
08-20-2008, 11:37 AM
  #107
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Originally Posted by ozhenson View Post
In summation, I liked this trade alot for both teams. In the long term however, Id say Greene will be what wins the trade for the kings. Hes gonna turn into a beast.
As long as Greene doesn't turninto a Willise beast, I'm okay with it.

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Old
08-20-2008, 11:39 AM
  #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ean View Post
Lubo was a defensive liability (and should be traded).

At best Lubo was a good PP specialist. We got that in Stoll for the trade. I'm of the opinion that this was a pretty lateral move.
Luba was a defensive liability who scored 41 points and was -18. Stoll scored 36 points and was -23, what does that make him. And as far as PP specialist goes, I would say Lubo is far more superior then Stoll on the PP as he can also pass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
I didn't say it trumps anything Lubo did last season. Overall, Lubo was terrible last season. He was a turnover machine. Do you deny that? The stats tell the story there.
If Lubo was terrible last season then Stoll was nothing outside of atrocious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Stoll was very good as a defensive forward and penalty killer in the Oilers' playoff run.
Stoll has never been really good at even strength, he has always been surrounded by strong ES players and was exposed last year. He's not a good ES player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Why was he a minus overall? Because he was up against the other teams top forwards all the time. That's why +/- can be a deceiving stat.
No he wasn't, Horcoff was, when Horcs was injured he stepped into that role a bit but he didn't take it all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
But hey, you go right on calling other's posts ridiculous when it's your own bias that is the only thing ridiculous around here.
It's not a bias. I like Stoll but he is what he is. See below, it's legit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squidward View Post
Lubo had a bad season....but he was still 17th overall in points (offense is still Lubo's forte). His +/- was bad....but both Blake and Johnson had worse +/- ratings. As did Dan Boyle who just got back twice as much in a trade than Lubo did. I will not deny he had a lot of turnovers. But he was far from being a terrible defenseman.

Stoll was only averaging 17 minutes/game. Most teams best forwards averaged over 20 minutes. So he was not always up against the other team's top forward. Also 6 of those 17 minutes were while on special teams. So only about 11 minutes of the game were spent at even strength. Even Oilers fans agree that Stoll is horrible at even strength.

My bias towards Stoll? Yes I have always hated the guy.:

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Old
08-20-2008, 11:45 AM
  #109
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Man, I can't wait for the season to start.

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Old
08-20-2008, 12:04 PM
  #110
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Man, I can't wait for the season to start.
Why? It won't change certain peoples opinions regardless of what happens on the ice. They KNOW what they KNOW.

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08-20-2008, 12:57 PM
  #111
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Why? It won't change certain peoples opinions regardless of what happens on the ice. They KNOW what they KNOW.
That is not true at all. A lot of people on these boards had high hopes for the likes of Stuart, Nagy, Handzus, Preissing and Calder last year. Most of them started of the season horribly but a couple started to pull it together at the end of the season. But the point is just because we have one opinion of a player before the season starts does not mean that it will remain that same opinion by the end of the season.

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Old
08-20-2008, 03:06 PM
  #112
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And it's fair to say there have been just as many players who received serious concussions and eventually returned to form.

Obviously it's a big risk; no one is arguing that. But Stoll hasn't experienced any post-concussion syndromes in quite a while. I think it's safe to assume that he's 100% healthy. The guy did play a full season last year.

Nonetheless, the biggest thing about concussions (and other career threatening injuries) is what they do to a player's psyche. A normally aggressive, gritty player (like Stoll) will tend to hold back coming off such a serious head injury. They won't take as many chances as they normally would out of fear of a second occurrence. It's all about regaining psychological form and rekindling the fire. There's usually a "feeling out" phase that happens after such an injury, when a player returns to the ice 100% objectively healthy, but has to find their game again. Some players return to form. Some don't.

Both Handzus and Stoll went through this last season. Have they found their game again and will they return to form? I have no idea. But we'll know after next season.

But for the most part, yeah, it's a huge risk and could either pay huge dividends or cause Lombardi his job.
Ha. Post-concussion syndromes? I meant "symptoms." That's what I get for posting at 2 in the morning.

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08-20-2008, 08:01 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by KingPurpleDinosaur View Post
Isn't signing Stoll before we see him in one game with the Kings the same mistake DL made with Cloutier?
No because Cloutier was never any good.

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Old
08-20-2008, 08:09 PM
  #114
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I think we can all raise our glasses high to Pucknut50's sentiment! Bravo! Estupendo! Bottoms out!

What was your other post about? Crawford I hope. Here's to ya padnah!

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Old
08-20-2008, 08:16 PM
  #115
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Did they do away with the invite feature?

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08-20-2008, 08:18 PM
  #116
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I think we can all raise our glasses high to Pucknut50's sentiment! Bravo!
+1

Pucknut50's all about the quality, not the quantity.

Looking at my post count and recent posts, I have neither.


Last edited by Seven Out: 08-20-2008 at 08:22 PM. Reason: added quote
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Old
08-20-2008, 08:27 PM
  #117
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Did they do away with the invite feature?
It's back to an open system indefinitely.

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08-20-2008, 10:46 PM
  #118
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There is really no way to judge this trade right now. Sure it was bad asset management but it could still end up being a big win for the Kings. We'll just have to wait and see.

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Old
08-20-2008, 10:47 PM
  #119
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It's back to an open system indefinitely.

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Why? I thought the invite system was a great idea.

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08-21-2008, 02:08 AM
  #120
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Why? I thought the invite system was a great idea.
It's a system performance issue - hence the indefinite timeline for the invite system to return.

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08-21-2008, 10:16 AM
  #121
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So basically, not enough noobs clicking on the sponsors links?

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08-22-2008, 12:34 PM
  #122
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Lubo played last season in the wrong spot...you can thank crawford for that. Lubo always plays RD and last season Crawford played him on the left side. may not seem like a big deal but it was for Lubo and he even came out and said how it negatively affected his game especially in the offensive zone where he could hit that offwing one timer. He couldn't do that from the left side last season.

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08-22-2008, 02:33 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by treason47 View Post
Lubo played last season in the wrong spot...you can thank crawford for that. Lubo always plays RD and last season Crawford played him on the left side. may not seem like a big deal but it was for Lubo and he even came out and said how it negatively affected his game especially in the offensive zone where he could hit that offwing one timer. He couldn't do that from the left side last season.


he played in the "wrong" spot for two seasons... one of which was his best. this argument didn't fly then and it certainly doesn't fly now.

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Old
08-22-2008, 04:07 PM
  #124
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
Stoll has been to a Stanley Cup Final, so no way that Lubo was vastly better last season than Stoll has been in his entire career. Take the blinders off.

Lubo has been a top-5 player in his position.

Stoll hasn't been anything but a top-6 guy with injury problems and he hasn't even been a top-6 guy in years...

Think you need to take the blinders off there. This was just a salary dump with a small chance of getting a player who doesn't just disappear in a year. A very small chance.

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08-22-2008, 04:17 PM
  #125
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Lubo top 5? Since when was he in a class with Lidstrom, Pronger, Niedermayer, Chara and Zubov? And Lubo has had more injuries in his career than Stoll has.

I think someone else needs to take the blinders off...

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